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Iso regen

jamesg11

By jamesg11
in UpTone Audio (Sponsored)

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asdf1000

asdf1000

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, Superdad said:

 

Here is the full break-down regarding powering both the downstream end of a LANrover and an ISO REGEN from a single LPS-1:

 

a) Because--per Paul McGowan--the LANrover (downstream unit) somewhat oddly outputs 5VBUS power directly from the 5V the box is fed (either the SMPS wart is comes with or a user-suppled better PS), with only a filter cap and ferrite bead, an LPS-1 used with it would normally be set to 5 volts so that the LANrover's VBUS out will be 5V.

 

b) The VBUS current draw of whatever DAC/DDC is connected to the output of the ISO REGEN is going to determine if it can be run from (a shared from LPS-1) 5V or if the LPS-1 should be set to 7V.  That is because when fed 6+ volts (via the DC jack) the ISO REGEN's TI TPS7A4700 regulator for VBUS output can provide up to 1A for DACs that need it (even though USB max-spec says DACs/devices are not to draw more than 500mA).  But when fed just 5V, that regulator does not have any drop for regulation and will put out just 4.95V--and that's only if the draw from the DAC is minimal.

(This was the tested case with the Singxer SU-1 you were noting; the SU-1 just needs to "see" VBUS voltage and 4.95V was fine.)

 

c) But given that the upstream side of the ISO REGEN consumes so little current--the LT3042 reg on the input side of the "moat" is just using VBUS to create 3.3V for the isolator chip, it probably is fine for VBUS into the ISO REGEN to be either 5V or 7V (have never had 7V on VBUS so I should check with John, but the extra 2 volts to drop with the datasheet spec'd 40mA draw is just another 80mW of heat to dissipate on the reg/PCB).

 

d) The above does not consider if the linear regulators the LANrover does have--for its actual active circuity (at 3.3v)--have enough heatsinking to be okay running from 7V instead of 5V.  As with the ISO REGEN, it is likely fine, but I am sure the LANrover circuits consume more current overall, and I'm not comfortable advising someone to exceed voltage input on a device other than our own.

 

e) The downstream side of the ISO REGEN with its 5 regulators running everything is fine with anything from 5V to 9V (as long as DAC connection needs detailed in in "b)" above and in the FAQ on the overall subject are taken into consideration.  

So if I had a LANrover and ISO REGEN that I wanted to power from a single LPS-1, I would start with it set at 5V.

 

So Sean, if there is anything about the above that is not clear, please just read it over an extra time or two.

 

-------------

 

FedEx just dropped off the first samples of the production ISO REGEN PCB (and I immediately stuck one in an overnight envelope up to John for the flashing code), so nobody is going to hear from on this forum for a day or so.  Then I'll close this thread and open the official ISO REGEN launch thread by the weekend.

Assuming no disaster in the boards I am about to test, we will open it up for ordering this coming Tuesday, April 25th. 9_9

 

 

Thanks Alex,

 

My question was only about c) though :-) But you have a lot of LANRover + REGEN + LPS-1 users so that will help you with not having to answer the same questions 1000 times via PM :-)

 

So regarding "it probably is fine for VBUS into the ISO REGEN to be either 5V or 7V (have never had 7V on VBUS so I should check with John"

 

Can you kindly check with John :-)

 

@JohnSwenson

 

 

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JohnSwenson

JohnSwenson

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, Em2016 said:

 

Thanks Alex,

 

My question was only about c) though :-)

 

So regarding "it probably is fine for VBUS into the ISO REGEN to be either 5V or 7V (have never had 7V on VBUS so I should check with John"

 

Can you kindly check with John :-)

 

@JohnSwenson

 

 

The VBUS on the input of the ISO REGEN goes directly into a regulator with a fairly high voltage rating, so feeding it a VBUS of 7V will not harm anything. Just be VERY sure nothing else gets hooked up to the 7V VBUS. (except for a USB REGEN, which doesn't have anything at all connected to the VBUS)

 

If you plug something else in to the the 7V VBUS and fry it, we will not be liable, do so at your own risk.

 

John S.

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asdf1000

asdf1000

Posted
Posted
Just now, JohnSwenson said:

The VBUS on the input of the ISO REGEN goes directly into a regulator with a fairly high voltage rating, so feeding it a VBUS of 7V will not harm anything. Just be VERY sure nothing else gets hooked up to the 7V VBUS. (except for a USB REGEN, which doesn't have anything at all connected to the VBUS)

 

If you plug something else in to the the 7V VBUS and fry it, we will not be liable, do so at your own risk.

 

John S.


Thanks John.

 

Assume that I take the risk of powering the LANRover with the  LPS-1 at 7V (as a lot of REGEN customers have been doing for a while), I'm confused by how I could plug something else in to the 7V VBUS.

 

Do you mean the LANRover and ISO REGEN both powered by a single LPS-1 at 7V will be fine?

 

Again assume that I take the risk of powering the LANRover with the  LPS-1 at 7V. Nothing has fried up to now for me or a lot of LANRover + REGEN + LPS-1 custoemrs.

 

 

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Superdad

Superdad

Posted
Posted
19 minutes ago, Em2016 said:


Thanks John.

 

Assume that I take the risk of powering the LANRover with the  LPS-1 at 7V (as a lot of REGEN customers have been doing for a while), I'm confused by how I could plug something else in to the 7V VBUS.

 

Do you mean the LANRover and ISO REGEN both powered by a single LPS-1 at 7V will be fine?

 

Again assume that I take the risk of powering the LANRover with the  LPS-1 at 7V. Nothing has fried up to now for me or a lot of LANRover + REGEN + LPS-1 custoemrs.

 

 

 

John's point was that if one powers a LANrover with 7 volts (or whatever, from any supply), then because of the unusual "pass thru" design of the LANrover where its VBUS out is the same as whatever voltage you put in--you would need to be very careful about where you plug the USB cable coming out of the LANrover, since it would have a non-standard, high VBUS voltage on it.  So careful with those late night comparisons where you remove the ISO REGEN and go direct from LANrover to DAC.

 

As for your other suggestion that a lot of LANrover users are already running that device at 7V from an LPS-1, I do not know that that is the case.  I am glad to hear it is working fine for you, but as discussed the USB REGEN ignores the 7V you making the LANrover put out, and you'd best be careful about where else you stick that USB cable.

 

No offense Sean, but can we consider this topic finished for now?  It is more of a power supply issue and not terribly germane to the ISO REGEN discussion.

Besides, it is possible that the use of a LANrover--other than for actual USB>Ethernet>USB distance extension--may no long be of much benefit once users have the ISO REGEN.  You'll just have to see hear. B|

UpTone Audio LLC

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asdf1000

asdf1000

Posted
Posted
Just now, Superdad said:

So careful with those late night comparisons where you remove the ISO REGEN and go direct from LANrover to DAC.

 

As for your other suggestion that a lot of LANrover users are already running that device at 7V from an LPS-1, I do not know that that is the case.  I am glad to hear it is working fine for you, but as discussed the USB REGEN ignores the 7V you making the LANrover put out, and you'd best be careful about where else you stick that USB cable.

 

No offense Sean, but can we consider this topic finished for now?  It is more of a power supply issue and not terribly germane to the ISO REGEN discussion.

Besides, it is possible that the use of a LANrover--other than for actual USB>Ethernet>USB distance extension--may no long be of much benefit once users have the ISO REGEN.  You'll just have to see hear. B|

 

No worries Alex. I thought this was on topic (swapping out the REGEN for the upcoming ISO REGEN with my LANRover).

 

If I have any more questions I'll PM you.

 

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Superdad

Superdad

Posted
Posted
50 minutes ago, Bricki said:

Were these final production listening tests done with microrendu and iso regen powered by single lps1?

 

Does SQ still improve with these final production boards when iso regen is fed by microrendu? ?

 

No microRendu in my system in today's tests.  Just my tweaked Mac mini (JS-2, MMK, booted from SD card with OS slimmed to 75 processes and no SATA or directly connected drives, HQ Player doing DSD256) as source.

UpTone Audio LLC

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Superdad

Superdad

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Em2016 said:

I also thought you previously acknowledged a lot of LPS-1 owners are powering the LANRover and REGEN: 

 

I'm not sure why the recommendation has suddenly changed. Anyway I'll leave it.

 

I just meant that while I know a bunch of people power their LANrovers with the LPS-1, I don't know how many are also using a REGEN and if they are powering both with the LPS-1 set at 7V.

 

Since you pointed me to Mr. McGowan's post letting people know that the LANrover passes through the 5V (with just a capacitor and ferrite from its stock wall wart) to the VBUS output line, I am being more cautious about saying its okay to run the device from 7V.  

 

As UpTone Audio matures--and with now a LOT of power supply units out there--it seems best that I exercise more prudence about advice regarding other manufacturers' product voltage parameters.  The LANrover is a case-in-point.  And we really don't want to be responsible for someone damaging other equipment through the use of ours.

 

UpTone Audio LLC

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ElviaCaprice

ElviaCaprice

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Superdad said:

 

By the way, we did put a DIP switch on the back to defeat the isolation if necessary in extreme circumstances (another time I'll talk about our experiences and what those circumstances might be).  Most people will never have to use the switch, but there to it is interesting to be able to hear what the galvanic isolation brings to the table.  

:D

 

Onward!

--Alex C.

 

 

This is great to hear, Alex.  Nice touch and definitely might make this more compatible with the 2Qute and it's galvanic isolation.  Options are always good. :D  Does that mean if the galvanic isolation is switched off we need a 5V vbus feed?  Which I'm sure you will answer in good time. 

(JRiver) Jetway barebones NUC (mod 3 sCLK-EX, Cybershaft OP 14)  (PH SR7) => mini pcie adapter to PCIe 1X => tXUSBexp PCIe card (mod sCLK-EX) (PH SR7) => (USPCB) Chord DAVE => Omega Super 8XRS/REL t5i  (All powered thru Topaz Isolation Transformer)

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asdf1000

asdf1000

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Superdad said:

 

I just meant that while I know a bunch of people power their LANrovers with the LPS-1, I don't know how many are also using a REGEN and if they are powering both with the LPS-1 set at 7V.

 

Since you pointed me to Mr. McGowan's post letting people know that the LANrover passes through the 5V (with just a capacitor and ferrite from its stock wall wart) to the VBUS output line, I am being more cautious about saying its okay to run the device from 7V.  

 

As UpTone Audio matures--and with now a LOT of power supply units out there--it seems best that I exercise more prudence about advice regarding other manufacturers' product voltage parameters.  The LANrover is a case-in-point.  And we really don't want to be responsible for someone damaging other equipment through the use of ours.

 

 

Understood, that's a lot clearer now.

 

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Middy

Middy

Posted
Posted

Juggling LPS orders, design tweaks, dealing with your SMT maker, testing, a new building, an internets worth of questions and John's life changes to new pastures. You two don't make it easy for yourselves. 

'Fair play' as we say over here. ?

Thanks for the update Alex...

Been fun watching the journey.

Dave

 

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Superdad

Superdad

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Posted
17 minutes ago, Middy said:

Been fun watching the journey.

 

 

Thanks Dave.

 

Suppose I could be cliche and say the journey is the reward...

But really it is the music--and being able to support my family doing what I've enjoyed all my life.  Working with John is truly awesome too.

 

Just a week from this Saturday--on the 29th--the journey will be to Hawaii, alone with my wife for a whole week (kids off in school).

So I have lots of motivation to work like mad now--knowing some fun and relaxation is ahaed.  B| 

 

The crazy part will be getting back into the office on the 8th and finishing 200+ ISO REGENs and USPCBs for shipment by the 16th.  Oops, guess I just revealed the ship date! xD

UpTone Audio LLC

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R1200CL

R1200CL

Posted
Posted

@Superdad

There has been said that the ISO regen primary customers is not the owners of the MicroRendu. Is this still a valid statement ?

 

If I understood your tests correctly, MicroRendu owners most likely will notice a SQ lift, right ?

 

I also own a LPS-1. My MicroRendu powers a Singxer F1. If I purchase the ISO regen, is a Y-split OK to power both (yes I know it's OK power vice), or what will I gain with a second LPS-1 only for the ISO regen ?

Maybe @JohnSwenson can explain how all these loops will be affected or not. 

Maybe also add if there is any difference if you do not use Vbus power from the ISO regen to power a USB/SPDIF converter or a DAC. 

 

Can you post some pictures ? Maybe also with uspcb in use. 

 

Will there be any DC cables available for purchase now ? And if yes, Y-splits as well.

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soares

soares

Posted
Posted

Yes please... :-)

 

Jensen VRD-iFF>Router>Rj45>opticalModule>
SFP>Buffalo2016>SFP>opticalModule >Rj45>

IZen Mk3>Rj45> Delock62619>Rj45>
etherRegen (Master Clock+ Mini-Circuits BLP)>SFP>opticalRendu>USB>IsoRegen>

USB>Phoenix>USB>OPPO 205 (Modded)>HMS “the Perfect Match”>Proac Tablette Reference 8 Signature.
 

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Superdad

Superdad

Posted
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Posted
14 hours ago, R1200CL said:

And maybe now it's time to reveal the price ? ?

 

By this weekend, I promise.  Got to leave something as a surprise. :rolleyes:

 

By the way, a couple of members privately pointed out to me that for security reasons it was not prudent to post the dates of my vacation.  I appreciate that, but my assistant and her firefighter husband will be house-sitting the whole time to look after our big dog, our horses, and the cats.  And unlike me, they are gun enthusiasts. >:(

UpTone Audio LLC

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rickca

rickca

Posted
Posted

Anticipation, anticipation
Is making me late
Is keeping me waiting

Pareto Audio AMD 7700 Server --> Berkeley Alpha USB --> Jeff Rowland Aeris --> Jeff Rowland 625 S2 --> Focal Utopia 3 Diablos with 2 x Focal Electra SW 1000 BE subs

 

i7-6700K/Windows 10  --> EVGA Nu Audio Card --> Focal CMS50's 

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