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Iso regen


jamesg11
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Where will this sit in the pantheon of choices ...? Regen meets lps-1.

Presumably, ideal for those with non-ethernet pc to dac setups ...?

macmini M1>ethernet / elgar iso tran(2.5kVa, .0005pfd)>consonance pw-3 boards>ghent ethernet(et linkway cat8 jssg360)>etherRegen B-side(js-2)>ghent ethernet(et linkway cat8 jssg360) >ultraRendu A-side(clones lpsu split>lps1.2)>uspbc>iso regen(clones lpsu split>lps1.2)>curious regen link>rme adi-2 dac(js-2)>cawsey cables>naquadria sp2 passive pre> 1.naquadria lucien mkII.5 power>elac fs249be + elac 4pi plus.2> 2.perreaux9000b(mods)>2x naquadria 12” passive subs.

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Where will this sit in the pantheon of choices ...? Regen meets lps-1.

Presumably, ideal for those with non-ethernet pc to dac setups ...?

 

Combines Regen with isolation. So not a combo with the lps-1, but you could use an lps-1 to power it. :)

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> optical to EtherREGEN -> microRendu -> ISO Regen -> Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 DAC -> Spectral DMC-12 & DMA-150 -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

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Jud,

 

Clarification appreciated. Maybe I don't need to go mRendu ...?

macmini M1>ethernet / elgar iso tran(2.5kVa, .0005pfd)>consonance pw-3 boards>ghent ethernet(et linkway cat8 jssg360)>etherRegen B-side(js-2)>ghent ethernet(et linkway cat8 jssg360) >ultraRendu A-side(clones lpsu split>lps1.2)>uspbc>iso regen(clones lpsu split>lps1.2)>curious regen link>rme adi-2 dac(js-2)>cawsey cables>naquadria sp2 passive pre> 1.naquadria lucien mkII.5 power>elac fs249be + elac 4pi plus.2> 2.perreaux9000b(mods)>2x naquadria 12” passive subs.

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More items in the one (metal) box please!

 

USB isolation with signal integrity checking in the one box is good, the next step is to add the LPS-1 to the mix, but maybe not this time.

 

A powered solution would give 500mA to the DAC should it need it, the Intona, being bus powered falls short and ends up with failure with some DACs. Hopefully put an end to countless taping up of the 5V rail and the chain to a DAC that's really unwieldy!

 

Imagine Superdad will bring forward details in the next week or so.

AS Profile Equipment List        Say NO to MQA

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Jud,

 

Clarification appreciated. Maybe I don't need to go mRendu ...?

 

mRendu is a different animal - can be used as an NAA or similar, has its own OS....

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> optical to EtherREGEN -> microRendu -> ISO Regen -> Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 DAC -> Spectral DMC-12 & DMA-150 -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi Alex @Superdad

 

Can you please share something on this. Anything... technical features? USB 3.0 support? Externally powered or no need? Release date? Price? Something lol

 

I'm in desperate need of a USB galvanic isolation device for my desktop setup.

 

Cheers ! :-)

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Hi Alex @Superdad

 

Can you please share something on this. Anything... technical features? USB 3.0 support? Externally powered or no need? Release date? Price? Something lol

 

I'm in desperate need of a USB galvanic isolation device for my desktop setup.

 

Cheers ! :-)

 

I know everyone is anxious (me and John most of all!) and wanting more info. It has been a busy, stressful week and I just could not get to the write up. There is too much to describe and explain to put it out piecemeal.

 

It is going to be great and will be every bit of a sonic leap as anything we have done before (to be honest, this thing leaves the USB REGEN--and every other competitive device I have on hand--in the dust).

 

And the price will be terrific. More than USB REGEN (the bill of materials is a lot higher!), but much less than some have imagined. We expect to sell a boatload. And I am planning a nice "UpTone loyalty rebate"--related to prior USB REGEN and LPS-1 buyers...

 

So please be patient just a little longer. Another 100+ LPS-1 units are being prepared for on-time shipment Tuesday, and we are also in the middle of another sold-out 14 unit JS-2 run for March 21st shipment. Success is great, but someone needs to send in the clones to help... ;)

 

Thanks everyone!

 

--Alex C.

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Speculation: the ifigalvanic works on USB3. USB audio only needs USB2, if USB3 stack doesn't support Usb audio properly, then the ifigalvanic won't help, it's a driver problem for USB3.

 

The details are very slim on the ifigalvanic on the power to drive the thing. If the device is bus powered, then the same limitations to provide power for DACs is going to run short (for some).

Based on these two speculative points, there's not much point in looking at the ifigalvanic until the detail emerges otherwise.

 

The Iso Regen needs external power more than the USB bus can supply, OK, then use the LPS-1 technology to do so and have enough in reserve for the thirsty power DACs.

That already solves many problems.

 

Boatload :) Has Superdad the ships already booked?

AS Profile Equipment List        Say NO to MQA

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Speculation: the ifigalvanic works on USB3. USB audio only needs USB2, if USB3 stack doesn't support Usb audio properly, then the ifigalvanic won't help, it's a driver problem for USB3.

 

The details are very slim on the ifigalvanic on the power to drive the thing. If the device is bus powered, then the same limitations to provide power for DACs is going to run short (for some).

Based on these two speculative points, there's not much point in looking at the ifigalvanic until the detail emerges otherwise.

 

The Iso Regen needs external power more than the USB bus can supply, OK, then use the LPS-1 technology to do so and have enough in reserve for the thirsty power DACs.

That already solves many problems.

 

Boatload :) Has Superdad the ships already booked?

 

Based on these 2 pics (the only ones on the web so far and MAY NOT be final products) I can't see where external power input is:

 

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/attachments/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/33572d1488194733-group-test-universal-serial-bus-industry-standard-cables-connectors-and-communications-protocols-between-computers-and-electronic-devices-gadgets-aq-jitterbug-uptone-regen-ifi-iusb3-0-ipurifier-ipurifier2-intona-w4s-recovery-any-more-%85-igalvanic.jpg

 

http://www.phileweb.com/news/photo/d-av/405/40585/23_1_thumb.jpg

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Yes, we have known it was coming for a while. You will note how challenging iFi said it was. I am sure they were not kidding. Here's the story:

 

It was November 2015 when I first contacted Silanna Semiconductor--presently the ONLY single-chip high-speed USB galvanic isolator device--for samples to incorporate into a greatly enhanced REGEN that we had already begun work on.

 

It is a good chip, but it is fussy to work with and Silanna offers virtually zero documentation. We were the first audio company to approach them and the first to propose pairing their chip with a USB hub chip for proper USB signal generation. In fact, their USA sales engineer in charge of this chip (they are a small firm) got pretty excited about our proposed use of it--and I think he began pitching their chip as a combo to a hub chip to other manufacturers in this space.

 

We quickly discovered how much noise and jitter their chip adds (so the handful of isolators--4 that I know of, 2 of which I have here--which use the Silanna by itself, CoolGear, AllDAQ, etc., sound terrible), and also how much trouble it can have (for technical reasons I won't get into) with isochronous, async USB audio. And when you start doing true galvanic isolation, funny things happen with EMI, static, and the paths for leakage.

 

Anyway, I am not ready to discuss today all the fabulous technical features of the ISO REGEN, and unless/until iFi reveals actual details about their clocking, voltage regulation, etc., nobody can compare them even on paper.

Yet I do know for a fact that the iGalvanic is using the very same expensive Silanna ICE08USB chip as we are in the ISO REGEN.

 

Frankly, the galvanic isolation is nice (especially when powered by an UltraCap LPS-1), but the rest of the tremendous enhancements we made to the rest of the REGEN (Crystek CCHD-575 clock, USB3.0 hub chip with the best signal integrity John has ever measured, and five of the world's ultra-lowest noise packaged linear regulators--the LT3042) far exceed the SQ benefit brought by the isolator. There were more than a few frustrating times when John and I considered ditching the Silanna and just coming out with an uber-REGEN instead of an ISO REGEN. Such could have been on the market a year ago!

 

But we've stuck with it. Here's a pic of me holding the first $5K worth of Silanna isolator chips. We'd best start shipping ISO REGENs soon because I'm under contract to take another $11K of the darn things by June!

 

Silanna chip supply1.jpg

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Speculation: the ifigalvanic works on USB3. USB audio only needs USB2, if USB3 stack doesn't support Usb audio properly, then the ifigalvanic won't help, it's a driver problem for USB3.

 

The details are very slim on the ifigalvanic on the power to drive the thing. If the device is bus powered, then the same limitations to provide power for DACs is going to run short (for some).

Based on these two speculative points, there's not much point in looking at the ifigalvanic until the detail emerges otherwise.

 

The Iso Regen needs external power more than the USB bus can supply, OK, then use the LPS-1 technology to do so and have enough in reserve for the thirsty power DACs.

That already solves many problems.

 

Hi Gary:

 

Well I won't speculate too much on how iFi might or might not be using any USB3.0 Superspeed mode (I don't understand the point of that with their other devices either since I know of no DAC that accepts audio at Superspeed).

 

I will say that for ISO REGEN we tested a number of USB 3.0 hub chips and chose the one we liked best--based on several factors. (It is a different brand than iFi has been using in their other USB 3.0 hub products.) But we turn all the Superspeed stuff off--sounds much better that way!

 

As for the rest of your speculation on powering, etc, you are incorrect--at least in regards to how the ISO REGEN uses and handles power. I have to go pick up my son for school now, so I'll have to get into this later.

 

Cheers,

--Alex C.

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P.S. What's with the Ground Lift switch on the iGalvanic? Probably to defeat the isolation for when it causes problems. We have been struggling for a couple of months to avoid having to offer that bail-out "feature" ourselves. That is still up in the air. ;)

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Alex, great to see you finally telling the story behind development of the ISO REGEN. I really enjoy reading this stuff.

NUC7PJYH/AL --> Berkeley Alpha USB --> Jeff Rowland Aeris --> Jeff Rowland 625 S2 --> Focal Utopia 3 Diablos with 2 x Focal Electra SW 1000 BE subs

 

i7-6700K/Windows 10 Version 2004/HDPLEX 300W/HDPLEX 400W DC-ATX --> EVGA Nu Audio Card --> Focal CMS50's 

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Alex -

 

I am patiently looking forward to hearing one (or two) in my systems, so I'll take some of those chips off your hands soon. Your story of the ISO development is fascinating... Here's to listening!

 

Randy

The world is but one country, and mankind its citizens.

 

Living Room: Caps2/JRiver 19/Fidelizer > Wireworld Platinum USB > Calyx DAC/KingRex PSU > Kimber Heroes > Bryston BP-26/4B-SST > Kimber 8TC > B&W 802D.

Den: CAPS3 Carbon/SOtM USB/JRiver 20/Fidelizer/Uptone JS-2 power supply>Totaldac USB > Off Ramp5/Dynamo PS/Short Block via I2S > PS Audio Silver HDMI > W4S Dac2DSDse/femto upgrade > Triode Wire Labs IC > Bryston B100-SST > Kimber 8VS > B&W SCMS. (Triode Wire Labs power cables).

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Any benefit to those of us who already own LPS-1 and microRendu?

Main listening (small home office):

Main setup: Surge protector +_iFi  AC iPurifiers >Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Conditioning+Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three >GIK Room Treatments.

Secondary Listening: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Matrix Element i Streamer/DAC (XLR)+Schiit Freya>Kii Three .

Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup.
Living Room/Kitchen: RPi 3B+ running RoPieee to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

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Any benefit to those of us who already own LPS-1 and microRendu?

 

Hi Danny:

 

Actually yes, but not because of the galvanic isolation--which you already have with the mR and LPS-1.

 

The enhancements to the REGEN (which sonically are more significant that the galvanic isolation which took a frustratingly long time to make work right) are what benefit the microRendu--and every other device.

 

I've been listening to my microRendu feeding the ISO REGEN (version of the board with and without the Silanna isolator chip) for a while now, and it sounds fantastic.

 

The combination of the great signal integrity USB 3.0 hub chip we chose (which lmitche and Jud separately picked blind from very early beta units last summer), the ultra-low-phase noise Crystek 575 clock, the e beefing up and separating of the power networks, and the 5(!) separate ultra-ultra-low-noise LT3042 regulators--those are the things that really contribute to the leap ahead of the ISO REGEN.

 

And some of the above--especially the clock--are why ISO REGEN is of benefit to even the hub-chipped "regen" output of the microRendu.

 

Best,

 

--Alex C.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Computer Audiophile

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Hi Danny:

 

Actually yes, but not because of the galvanic isolation--which you already have with the mR and LPS-1.

 

The enhancements to the REGEN (which sonically are more significant that the galvanic isolation which took a frustratingly long time to make work right) are what benefit the microRendu--and every other device.

 

I've been listening to my microRendu feeding the ISO REGEN (version of the board with and without the Silanna isolator chip) for a while now, and it sounds fantastic.

 

The combination of the great signal integrity USB 3.0 hub chip we chose (which lmitche and Jud separately picked blind from very early beta units last summer), the ultra-low-phase noise Crystek 575 clock, the e beefing up and separating of the power networks, and the 5(!) separate ultra-ultra-low-noise LT3042 regulators--those are the things that really contribute to the leap ahead of the ISO REGEN.

 

And some of the above--especially the clock--are why ISO REGEN is of benefit to even the hub-chipped "regen" output of the microRendu.

 

Best,

 

--Alex C.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Computer Audiophile

 

Hi Alex,

 

I hope to, at some point, hear more about how you addressed the problem of jitter with the galvanic isolation.

 

Up to this point, it seems like one had to trade off the benefits of GI vs. SI when talking about the likes of Intona and Regen. This is why so many of us were using the two in series - Intona for GI, then Regen or RUR for SI.

 

What always concerned me about that was, in realizing the GI benefit, were the poor jitter and clocks in the Intona damaging SI more than could be recovered by the Regen?

 

If your secret sauce in the ISO Regen is to avoid that GI/SI tradeoff, then it should be something very special!

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And some of the above--especially the clock--are why ISO REGEN is of benefit to even the hub-chipped "regen" output of the microRendu.

So is it technically feasible to integrate the improvements of the ISO REGEN (perhaps without the Silanna chip) into a new version of the micro rendu?

 

A separate question. Can a single LPS-1 power both a micro rendu and an ISO REGEN? What if the target USB input device uses 5v? I have two cases ... an iFi micro iDSD and a Berkeley Alpha USB.

NUC7PJYH/AL --> Berkeley Alpha USB --> Jeff Rowland Aeris --> Jeff Rowland 625 S2 --> Focal Utopia 3 Diablos with 2 x Focal Electra SW 1000 BE subs

 

i7-6700K/Windows 10 Version 2004/HDPLEX 300W/HDPLEX 400W DC-ATX --> EVGA Nu Audio Card --> Focal CMS50's 

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