Iso regen

[rickca]

On 4/10/2017 at 10:26 PM, austinpop said:

 

You've taken teasing and delayed gratification to a Tantric level. 

I'm more frantic than Tantric.

[asdf1000]

Just now, rickca said:

I'm more frantic than Tantric.

 

LOL

[JohnSwenson]

4 hours ago, Em2016 said:

 

Yep I was pleased and grateful for their honestly. It's sounds like they know what they're talking about but I'm not technically savvy - would be great but would appreciate if John or Alex could confirm?

 

This is a touchy subject for me. I am convinced that almost everybody has done shielding wrong, including all the cable manufacturers. The actual physics of how electrical shielding works is known (you can look it up on the net) but the ramifications of how that applies to cable shields has been completely ignored by everybody.

 

I tried to brought this up a while back and got thoroughly beat up by a WHOLE bunch of people.  With all my test equipment in storage I'm not able to defend this with exhaustive measurements at this point. So I'm going to let it alone for now to quell the witch hunt until I can properly prove what I am talking about.

 

So it boils down to: whatever you glean about cable shielding is almost certainly wrong, so please don't base buying decisions (especially expensive buying decisions) on the explanations from cable experts.

 

As to short DC cables for things like LPS-1 to ISO REGEN, shields are probably not very important, even if done right (which I am NOT going to talk about right now). Proper geometry of the wires being more important. The best by far is starquad, this is an amazing configuration. Starquad consists of 4 conductors in a single twist ( NOT two separate twisted pairs), opposite conductors are connected together to form an effective two conductor system. But the magnetic fields and electrical fields do wonderful things in this configuration. It is inherently shielded and inductance is much lower, very useful for power delivery for digital circuits. 

 

So all you really need is a 4 conductor unshielded cable, 18 AWG is about as big as you can  fit in those barrel plugs and jacks with screw connectors on them. The proper connection gives an effective 15 AWG.

 

One that will work well is Belden 8489 or West Penn 244. The fun part is going to be finding small quantities so you don't need to buy a 500ft spool! Sometimes you can find short pieces on Ebay for good prices.

 

John S.

[asdf1000]

2 minutes ago, JohnSwenson said:

This is a touchy subject for me. I am convinced that almost everybody has done shielding wrong, including all the cable manufacturers. The actual physics of how electrical shielding works is known (you can look it up on the net) but the ramifications of how that applies to cable shields has been completely ignored by everybody.

 

I tried to brought this up a while back and got thoroughly beat up by a WHOLE bunch of people.  With all my test equipment in storage I'm not able to defend this with exhaustive measurements at this point. So I'm going to let it alone for now to quell the witch hunt until I can properly prove what I am talking about.

 

So it boils down to: whatever you glean about cable shielding is almost certainly wrong, so please don't base buying decisions (especially expensive buying decisions) on the explanations from cable experts.

 

As to short DC cables for things like LPS-1 to ISO REGEN, shields are probably not very important, even if done right (which I am NOT going to talk about right now). Proper geometry of the wires being more important. The best by far is starquad, this is an amazing configuration. Starquad consists of 4 conductors in a single twist ( NOT two separate twisted pairs), opposite conductors are connected together to form an effective two conductor system. But the magnetic fields and electrical fields do wonderful things in this configuration. It is inherently shielded and inductance is much lower, very useful for power delivery for digital circuits. 

 

So all you really need is a 4 conductor unshielded cable, 18 AWG is about as big as you can  fit in those barrel plugs and jacks with screw connectors on them. The proper connection gives an effective 15 AWG.

 

One that will work well is Belden 8489 or West Penn 244. The fun part is going to be finding small quantities so you don't need to buy a 500ft spool! Sometimes you can find short pieces on Ebay for good prices.

 

John S.

 

LOL cheers John S ! Beat up on this forum after a cable discussion !? Nooooo, that can't be :-)

 

Yes let's leave this topic out of this thread going forward to avoid another witch hunt. Thanks for the little tips in there too!

 

[greenleo]

2 hours ago, JohnSwenson said:

This is a touchy subject for me. I am convinced that almost everybody has done shielding wrong, including all the cable manufacturers. The actual physics of how electrical shielding works is known (you can look it up on the net) but the ramifications of how that applies to cable shields has been completely ignored by everybody.

 

I tried to brought this up a while back and got thoroughly beat up by a WHOLE bunch of people.  With all my test equipment in storage I'm not able to defend this with exhaustive measurements at this point. So I'm going to let it alone for now to quell the witch hunt until I can properly prove what I am talking about.

 

So it boils down to: whatever you glean about cable shielding is almost certainly wrong, so please don't base buying decisions (especially expensive buying decisions) on the explanations from cable experts.

 

As to short DC cables for things like LPS-1 to ISO REGEN, shields are probably not very important, even if done right (which I am NOT going to talk about right now). Proper geometry of the wires being more important. The best by far is starquad, this is an amazing configuration. Starquad consists of 4 conductors in a single twist ( NOT two separate twisted pairs), opposite conductors are connected together to form an effective two conductor system. But the magnetic fields and electrical fields do wonderful things in this configuration. It is inherently shielded and inductance is much lower, very useful for power delivery for digital circuits. 

 

So all you really need is a 4 conductor unshielded cable, 18 AWG is about as big as you can  fit in those barrel plugs and jacks with screw connectors on them. The proper connection gives an effective 15 AWG.

 

One that will work well is Belden 8489 or West Penn 244. The fun part is going to be finding small quantities so you don't need to buy a 500ft spool! Sometimes you can find short pieces on Ebay for good prices.

 

John S.

Hi John,

 

No need to prove it.  Just sell it to us?.  LOL.

[brightonjel]

"Starquad consists of 4 conductors in a single twist ( NOT two separate twisted pairs), opposite conductors are connected together to form an effective two conductor system."  Very interesting, and thanks for the pointer.  Which conductors are "opposite" in this configuration, John?  I see connectors 1, 2, 3, 4, colored black, white, red, green respectively, but not sure it's obvious to me which pairs you would create in that instance? (Belkin)

[Superdad]

5 minutes ago, brightonjel said:

Very interesting, and thanks for the pointer.  Which conductors are "opposite" in this configuration, John?  I see connectors 1, 2, 3, 4, colored black, white, red, green respectively, but not sure it's obvious to me which pairs you would create in that instance? (Belkin)

 

Normally you can strip a few inches of outer jacket off and decide which conductors are "diagonally" opposite each other to pair up.  But in the case of Belden twisted 4-conductor, I happen to know that you should pair Red/Black and Green/White.  The Belden 8489 John mentioned is quite simulate to the 9418 we use for the custom, 1.5m Oyaide/Belden DC cable that we include with our big JS-2.  Main difference is that the 9418 has an outer shield.

 

And while John was mentioning the easy to find, easy to use CCTV plug/screw terminal pieces (see below pic) as an easy way to make DC cables (and to make harnesses for series or center-tap connection of LPS-1s for higher voltage or bi-polar use), forget about using 18awg star-quad to make a 'Y' cable.  Two 18awg conductors is a lean 15awg--and that is all that one can cram into those CCTV plug screw terminals.  But making a 'Y' cable with that wire you would end up with FOUR 18awg conductors to shove into each terminal of the plug at the "bottom of the Y"--and that will be impossible.  Soldering to taper to a smaller gauge--and some heat shrink would be required.

 

Honestly, for a small 1.1 amp PS and the devices being powered, such big wire is overkill.  And remember, the 27-inch DC cable that we ship with the LPS-1 is a 16awg coax that I had made.

 

 

[Middy]

I thought I was going to be clever and link a 3 way Y connector for DC. Our Chinese friends don't seem to make them.  As an idea for people wanting fancy DC cables, I can only think of splitting 3 male connectors wiring them and use something like epoxy putty to make a little shell. Glad I just need a 2 way.... When the ISO hits the streets.

[tboooe]

6 minutes ago, Middy said:

I thought I was going to be clever and link a 3 way Y connector for DC. Our Chinese friends don't seem to make them.  As an idea for people wanting fancy DC cables, I can only think of splitting 3 male connectors wiring them and use something like epoxy putty to make a little shell. Glad I just need a 2 way.... When the ISO hits the streets.

You mean like this??

 

[Middy]

Ah no loads of these, I was thinking of a solid 3 piece short adapt. Just so people can dual power and use thier fancy DC cables. You could cut one back and solder it.? 

Or cut the plastic on the male in half and re solder the minimum cable cut back.

Sorry I am one of the DIY tweak guys who mess with not much knowledge. But enough to do a decent job.

Like John says the will be loads about too cottage industry  make a beldeln cable and some connectors. For the price of a cheap soldering iron and some youtube videos. Have a go yourself it's not that hard with a little practice.  Fun to learn and a little pride in trying.

All this from people saying short is better... I tell my wife that...

[Foggie]

On 4/12/2017 at 2:41 AM, JohnSwenson said:

The best by far is starquad, this is an amazing configuration. Starquad consists of 4 conductors in a single twist ( NOT two separate twisted pairs), opposite conductors are connected together to form an effective two conductor system. But the magnetic fields and electrical fields do wonderful things in this configuration. It is inherently shielded and inductance is much lower, very useful for power delivery for digital circuits. 

 

So all you really need is a 4 conductor unshielded cable, 18 AWG is about as big as you can  fit in those barrel plugs and jacks with screw connectors on them. The proper connection gives an effective 15 AWG.

 

One that will work well is Belden 8489 or West Penn 244. The fun part is going to be finding small quantities so you don't need to buy a 500ft spool! Sometimes you can find short pieces on Ebay for good prices.

 

John S.

 

Wouldn't the Canare 4S11 Star Quad be another good choice / alternative as its readily available and comes in non spool lengths etc..

[watercourse]

15 minutes ago, Foggie said:

 

Wouldn't the Canare 4S11 Star Quad be another good choice / alternative as its readily available and comes in non spool lengths etc..

Isn't the gauge of wire a bit much for the application? I'm assuming it is 11 gauge?

[Superdad]

10 minutes ago, Foggie said:

 

Wouldn't the Canare 4S11 Star Quad be another good choice / alternative as its readily available and comes in non spool lengths etc..

 

Canare cable is great.  John and I (and thousands of others of course) have been using it for different things for decades--mostly their microphone/line-level cable.  That speaker cable sized version you linked to when paired results in massive 11awg conductors!

If we ever produce the giant 10-12 amp multi-rail UltraCap supply we sketched the outline for (and which would have to sell for about $3K), then we would use big speakON connectors and that Canare wire would be cool for DC cables.  But for a little 1.1A LPS?  WAY overkill.  And I'd love to see someone even try to solder that wire to a DC barrel plug.   Good luck!

 

BTW, I just paid $5,000 to have Oyaide put their original style DC 5.5mm x 2.5/2.1mm plugs back into production (just for us sorry) so that we will continue to have a supply of pieces that can manage the 15awg pairing of the 18awg star-quad we use for the cables offered with our 5-7 amp JS-2.  And I ordered the mix (2.5 and 2.1mm) such that we will--in a month or so after the ISO REGEN launch--be able to offer these cables to non-JS2 buyers and in a short 2.1>2.1 combo (JS-2 case 2.5mm jack so to-date one end has always been that size). 

[Foggie]

@watercourse,  @Superdad

Yes, my bad, I wasn't thinking (re: Canare 4S11).  Nothing to see hear

[canali]

when is the release of the iso regen, btw?...sorry have been away for a bit.

[audio.bill]

15 minutes ago, canali said:

when is the release of the iso regen, btw?...sorry have been away for a bit.

Latest sales expectations mentioned here: https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/31013-iso-regen/?do=findComment&comment=650441

[canali]

8 minutes ago, audio.bill said:

Latest sales expectations mentioned here: https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/31013-iso-regen/?do=findComment&comment=650441

thank you!

[Middy]

On 2017-4-12 at 2:48 AM, rickca said:

 

Thanks for the additional timeline details.

A guy at a head fi meet uses the tiny dc dc coupler. He was very happy with result verse a cable on the LPS1. I ordered some in advance of getting my grubby hands of the Iso.

I have seen a pack of 5 for  a few dollars. 

EBAY Aliexpress. . Amazon ect

Mine are already cleaned and deoxit gold treated. ?.

I hope it's the usbpcb. 

[Middy]

Seeing fancy cables are expensive.

Not that Japanese brand but the only ones with fancy metal connectors are here. A nice all in one kit DIY.

Buy this and an extra 2 connectors.

2 small custom cables...

French site hopefully the link with be the translation page...

 

http://www.audiophonics.fr/fr/kits-cables-secteur/kit-cable-diy-elecaudio-jdc-121-alimentation-jack-dc-21-vers-dc-21mm-1m-p-9999.html

 

Dave?

[tboooe]

55 minutes ago, Middy said:

Seeing fancy cables are expensive.

Not that Japanese brand but the only ones with fancy metal connectors are here. A nice all in one kit DIY.

Buy this and an extra 2 connectors.

2 small custom cables...

French site hopefully the link with be the translation page...

 

http://www.audiophonics.fr/fr/kits-cables-secteur/kit-cable-diy-elecaudio-jdc-121-alimentation-jack-dc-21-vers-dc-21mm-1m-p-9999.html

 

Dave?

Since I am lazy I am just going to buy the star quad cable that @Superdad mentioned he will be selling after the IsoRegen launch.  

[Middy]

Hey NP,  I was more suprised there aren't more metal connectors on the market.

I don't know if they are any good to John? in size but handy at least for audio porn. .? or diy fun. .

 

Good luck

Dave

[tboooe]

1 minute ago, Middy said:

Hey NP,  I was more suprised there aren't more metal connectors on the market.

I don't know if they are any good to John? in size but handy at least for audio porn. .? or diy fun. .

 

Good luck

Dave

The oyaide DC connectors are nice.  Check out eBay.  I am going to buy a few to diy myself.

[Superdad]

4 hours ago, Middy said:

Seeing fancy cables are expensive.

Not that Japanese brand but the only ones with fancy metal connectors are here. A nice all in one kit DIY.

Buy this and an extra 2 connectors.

2 small custom cables...

French site hopefully the link with be the translation page...

 

http://www.audiophonics.fr/fr/kits-cables-secteur/kit-cable-diy-elecaudio-jdc-121-alimentation-jack-dc-21-vers-dc-21mm-1m-p-9999.html

 

Dave?

 

Actually that is a decent price for a hand-made 1 meter cable with good connectors and a twisted pair that is almost 15awg.  I have a sample of the Audiophonics/ELECAUDIO DC jack.  David Aubert of Audiphonics sent it to me upon request as I was considering switching to theirs to avoid having to order 1,000 Oyaide plugs (only way to get the original, full size strong ones that will take the Belden shielded star-quad we use).  It's a nice plug, roomier (longer ground strap) than even the original Oyaide, but the deal breaker for me (aside from not being able to get anywhere close to my Oyaide wholesale cost) was that the tips are not color-coded to be able to differentiate between the 2.1mm and 2.5mm.  With the Oyiade plugs, the red tip-ring is the 2.5mm and the black is 2.1mm.  

 

And Dave, if your suggestion for ordering extra connectors had to do with making a 'Y' cable with the Audiophonics wire, forget it.  would be a major challenge to get two pieces of 15awg wire soldered to the center pin of any of these jacks.  About the only way is to accept solder splicing 2:1 just before the plug.  Which really is fine since again, this is a very low amperage application.  The 15awg wire can readily handle 10 amps DC.

[Superdad]

2 hours ago, tboooe said:

The oyaide DC connectors are nice.  Check out eBay.  I am going to buy a few to diy myself.

 

Just watch it as the new style Oyaides--about all you can get anymore--may give you fits trying to fit big wire into them, and you will definitely want to employ some heat shrink tubing for protection against shorts.

Here's a pic of the 2 styles side-by-side:

Lower-left is the new style with ground strap ridiculously close to the center pin.

[Superdad]

2 hours ago, Middy said:

Hey NP,  I was more suprised there aren't more metal connectors on the market.

 

Me too.  Have been searching for years.  And I have contacts in China--with the sort of firms that actually machine connectors for the rest of the world.  Most all of what you see in audio plugs--from resellers and brands really are made by just a few factories.  Here is one of the real ones: http://www.aecconnectors.com.tw