A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[lmitche]

2 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

By quick glance that model seems to have problems other than related to the OS (Windows too). But I don't have that particular model, but that is not enough to generalize to all NUCs.

 

I've had NUCs as long as they have existed, running Linux. Latest I have is I think 7i7BNH. I don't yet have 8th generation.

You should know that I will never recommend anything but a NUC for audio playback. The size, price and SQ is fantastic. 

[Miska]

Just now, sig8 said:

And I am the living example of unsuccessful NUC boot on AudioLinux. I got the same NUC what @lmitche

has. It just won't boot on AudioLinux. I got another one thinking something wrong with first one, still same. @lmitche shared his bios pictures, i followed one by one, still no. Tried several USB flash drives. It boots without issue on Ubuntu and AudioLinux headless, but not on AudioLinux. Almost gave it up, but if I ultimately go with headless then it won't matter. I was just trying to compare it to my i7-6700 up-sampling vs NOS on NUC in HQPe because Roy raved about this NUC. Same flash drives will boot without issue on my i7 and on my J1900. Done several resets of bios, even updated bios to 0044 on one of them.

 

If it boots Ubuntu, then it is problem in Audio Linux and not in the NUC?

 

Have you tried booting up my bootable HQPlayer Embedded image on it?

[LTG2010]

1 minute ago, Miska said:

Have you tried booting up my bootable HQPlayer Embedded image on it?

The latest Audiolinux release appears to have bug fixes with the bootloader.

[Miska]

4 minutes ago, lmitche said:

You should know that I will never recommend anything but a NUC for audio playback. The size, price and SQ is fantastic. 

 

There are of course other options too, but it is certainly good way to get something small with recent architecture.

 

[lmitche]

5 hours ago, Miska said:

 

There are of course other options too, but it is certainly good way to get something small with recent architecture.

 

You are right, I should never say never, but nevertheless the NUC is a great option.

 

I look forward to seeing Intel fix the bios. It shouldn't be so tough.

[lmitche]

23 hours ago, look&listen said:

Maybe ~1000mfd Kemet (or other) output caps are problem. I & others have removed them with improved SQ. Think app sheet only say 10mfd. Worth experiment?

The outcome was a surprise indeed. Your approach is interesting.  Can you share a picture of the result please?

[rickca]

On 9/28/2018 at 7:30 AM, LTG2010 said:

If the OS is in RAM im not so sure it matters whether its a high powered Desktop CPU or NUC but Ive yet to try the two.

I'm intrigued by this possibility as well.  Possibly one of the new NUC8 Bean Canyon (28W) units.  I like the feature set much better, but it's unknown whether the BIOS is any better.

 

I'm also considering a z390 mini ITX with an i9-9000T (35W).  It's supposed to run at 3.2 GHz with no turbo and no hyperthreading.  Presumably then the problematic NUC BIOS is not an issue.

[lmitche]

11 minutes ago, rickca said:

I'm intrigued by this possibility as well.  Possibly one of the new NUC8 Bean Canyon (28W) units.  I like the feature set much better, but it's unknown whether the BIOS is any better.

Agreed, I have thought about buying one of the $500 28 watt Nuc machines for use as a Hqplayer/Roon/Audiolinux upsampling machine in the dirty zone, with an Audiolinux NAA machine in the clean zone. I have the second machine. And I have my upsampling  big rig, so it seems pointless and wasteful.

[rickca]

1 minute ago, lmitche said:

Agreed, I have thought about buying one of the $500 28 watt Nuc machines for use as a Hqplayer/Roon/Audiolinux upsampling machine in the dirty zone, with an Audiolinux NAA machine in the clean zone. I have the second machine. And have my upsampling  big rig, so it seems pointless.

I've updated my previous post with another idea.  I get your point, but I may want to let my big rig return to its original role of just being a gaming/productivity machine.

[smodtactical]

Guys I just got a denafrips terminator + HE9 and I am trying to optimize the sound. It sounds good out of the front of my desktop with usb but I have a feeling it can sound much better. I want to use my pc to control my music and if possible stick to foobar wasapi if I can. But I am willing to use other desktop software to control an external device.

These are the options I'm considering:

 

Do you recommend any of the following: 

1) iusb3.0 + igalvanic3.0
2) Singxer SU-1
3) Schiit eitr

 

Or totally separate devices

1) Aurender streamer
2) ultrarendu
3) Sotm sMS-200 Ultra

 

Which direction would you go?

[tapatrick]

I downloaded Audiolinux today to test it out on a MacBook pro laptop before solving the riddle of which PC/NUC to buy run it on as I’m not clear yet due to the Bios issues.

 

I have it booting off a USB drive and all loaded in Ram. Using Roon server/Tidal and sending to my Diy reclocked  roonbridge streamer it’s sounding really superb, very clean, with deeper and wider soundstage, and subtle additions to instruments and voices.  Very happy with results so far and seems running in ram boot gives a big leap in SQ. I’m going to try headless mini version next also in Ram.

 

So conclusion is it’s fine running on a Mac which fundamentally runs on a linux core and easy to set up. Thanks @lmitche for sharing your experiments.

 

[look&listen]

1 hour ago, lmitche said:

The outcome was a surprise indeed. Your approach is interesting.  Can you share a picture of the result please?

Picture? No-

Experience was with Ldovr (1A) modules. 1st added 2 560mfd Kemet alu polymer caps to output per recommended by 'enthusisatic experimenter' (based on MPAudio module configuration). Not like sound, like some other CA people, so removed caps & very happy with SQ+.

So suspect MPAudio modules (not have any here) maybe benefit with removal of output caps, but think recall from spec sheet that 10mfd recommended for ?? Research maybe good before proceeding with removal 

So with ~4 listening reports & Superdads explanation of LT304x output bandwidth vs caps, I think worth experiment to gain benefits of high(er) current LT3045 regulation!

[LTG2010]

8 hours ago, rickca said:

I've updated my previous post with another idea.  I get your point, but I may want to let my big rig return to its original role of just being a gaming/productivity machine.

Get yourself an image of Audiolinux for your big rig, it will be the best $29 you'll spend

In Windows, burn it to a USB stick with RUFUS choose the FAT32 option. Preferably an older copy (V2) of Rufus with the 'DD' option, to ensure compatibility.

Set your bios for UEFI boot (it would be anyhow), set your bios boot order to boot from the USB Key first.

Power up and you'll get the Archlinux desktop with all the goodies.

Navigate to the expert settings folder there are scripts to start Roonserver etc and to boot into RAM. Also there is an option for a reduced / almost headless version.

After that you can move onto the complete headless version with console commands.

If you pull out the USB key it will boot back into windows and vice versa.

See how that compares to your Zenith.

[elan120]

17 minutes ago, LTG2010 said:

Get yourself an image of Audiolinux for your big rig, it will be the best $29 you'll spend

In Windows, burn it to a USB stick with RUFUS choose the FAT32 option. Preferably an older copy (V2) of Rufus with the 'DD' option, to ensure compatibility.

Set your bios for UEFI boot (it would be anyhow), set your bios boot order to boot from the USB Key first.

Power up and you'll get the Archlinux desktop with all the goodies.

Navigate to the expert settings folder there are scripts to start Roonserver etc and to boot into RAM. Also there is an option for a reduced / almost headless version.

After that you can move onto the complete headless version with console commands.

If you pull out the USB key it will boot back into windows and vice versa.

See how that compares to your Zenith.

Thank you for the instructions.  I plan on giving this a try to see how this could help my HQPlayer rig I recently put together.  I do have couple basic questions, hopefully these will be the only information I need to get the test going. 

 

Question1:  Would the latest RUFUS version 3.3 be an issue?  Or should I download version 2.18 instead?

 

Question2:  Should I download Audiolinux lxqt unless I want to go headless, otherwise no need to go with Audiolinux headless, correct?

 

[LTG2010]

1 minute ago, elan120 said:

Question1:  Would the latest RUFUS version 3.3 be an issue?  Or should I download version 2.18 instead?

 

Question2:  Should I download Audiolinux lxqt unless I want to go headless, otherwise no need to go with Audiolinux headless, correct?

1. Best Use Rufus 2.18 as this has the DD option even though Piero has fixed some issues in his latest version.

2. If you buy the headless version you can download both versions (but check with Piero) If your comfortable with comand lines then go straight for headless otherwise start with the lxqt to familiarise yourself with the system.

The good thing about the lxqt version is that its a desktop and you can plug your headless USB key in and edit its files in the desktops file editors.

Also you will need to mount your Hard disk/ file storage etc.  instructions are on Audiolinux website, its a simple edit of a file with your hard disks details.

[Forehaven]

36 minutes ago, LTG2010 said:

Get yourself an image of Audiolinux for your big rig, it will be the best $29 you'll spend

In Windows, burn it to a USB stick with RUFUS choose the FAT32 option. Preferably an older copy (V2) of Rufus with the 'DD' option, to ensure compatibility.

Set your bios for UEFI boot (it would be anyhow), set your bios boot order to boot from the USB Key first.

Power up and you'll get the Archlinux desktop with all the goodies.

Navigate to the expert settings folder there are scripts to start Roonserver etc and to boot into RAM. Also there is an option for a reduced / almost headless version.

After that you can move onto the complete headless version with console commands.

If you pull out the USB key it will boot back into windows and vice versa.

See how that compares to your Zenith.

Awesome!  I was just about to write up that I got help setting up AudioLinux on my big  upsampling rig.  Playing off ram, not headless.  I have a “Larry Mitchell Approved” pc prev running a tweaked Windows10 and HQP.  This is strictly playing native.  

Holy Moly!  There is so much more ‘more’ there!  Instruments better localized to a scary presence.  Much better treble and bass extension.  Much more musical by far.  So I will agree with LTG here, best $29 spent

[elan120]

2 minutes ago, LTG2010 said:

Also you will need to mount your Hard disk/ file storage etc.  instructions are on Audiolinux website, its a simple edit of a file with your hard disks details.

Thank you again.  They helped a lot.

 

Once I finished mounting hard drive / file storage etc., will switching back to Windows be the same as earlier instructions?  Remove USB stick and then boot from hdd where Windows resides?

[LTG2010]

1 minute ago, elan120 said:

Once I finished mounting hard drive / file storage etc., will switching back to Windows be the same as earlier instructions?  Remove USB stick and then boot from hdd where Windows resides?

Yes when you reboot without the USB you'll be back into Windows. Look for the NTFS script. You can basically mount any drive in the linux desktop, but Roon will not see it unless you edit the: etc/fstab file.

[elan120]

1 minute ago, LTG2010 said:

Yes when you reboot without the USB you'll be back into Windows. Look for the NTFS script. You can basically mount any drive in the linux desktop, but Roon will not see it unless you edit the: etc/fstab file.

Great!  I will get started on this and will report back once I get it going.

[lmitche]

FYI - The NUC7CJYH and its variants seem to have a bios problem. I just noticed that mine boot fine, but the display doesn't work with certain monitors like my vizio tv. Looking at the back of the NUC the network light is blinking randomly, a sure sign that the OS is operational.

 

Using Nomachine from a windows laptop I was able to login to the NUC despite the blank screen on my TV. Everything else is normal.

 

 

[Cornan]

On 9/28/2018 at 11:01 AM, sandyk said:

 Low noise isn't everything. You also need a very low output impedance that is virtually flat from D.C. to way past 100KHZ, preferably to 1MHZ.

Note also that the manufacturer makes no claims for it's suitability with HiFi Audio.

Applications
 RF Power Supplies: PLLs, VCOs, Mixers, LNAs, PAs
 Very Low Noise Instrumentation
 High Speed/High Precision Data Converters
 Medical Applications: Imaging, Diagnostics

 

In fact. it's need to use very low ESR capacitors virtually guarantees that HF detail will be accentuated UNLESS you also use some larger value normal (NOT Low ESR) parallel electrolytic capacitors. Using it straight after a typical PSU with a Bridge rectifier and large value conventional electrolytic capacitors will help to achieve this , as will using a parallel larger value electrolytic capacitor at it's output.

 However, this is at the expense of a reduction in speed which shouldn't normally be a problem with Analogue Audio .

 Several members have obtained a more balanced tonal presentation by doing this.

Micael, on the other hand, uses daisy chained LT3045s to obtain added HF detail. 

 

First of all I’m amazed that you speak freely about things that you actually have’nt tried yourself. Your favorite expression have always been HF detail. You keep on using those words again and again. What does that really tell anyone? Nothing at all! Keep it real and let us know what you experience about things that you have actially tried IRL instead of giving everyone your personal opinion about how you think it should be in theory. 

[lmitche]

On 9/29/2018 at 12:07 PM, look&listen said:

Picture? No-

Experience was with Ldovr (1A) modules. 1st added 2 560mfd Kemet alu polymer caps to output per recommended by 'enthusisatic experimenter' (based on MPAudio module configuration). Not like sound, like some other CA people, so removed caps & very happy with SQ+.

So suspect MPAudio modules (not have any here) maybe benefit with removal of output caps, but think recall from spec sheet that 10mfd recommended for ?? Research maybe good before proceeding with removal 

So with ~4 listening reports & Superdads explanation of LT304x output bandwidth vs caps, I think worth experiment to gain benefits of high(er) current LT3045 regulation!

Thanks and yes I have removed the kemet caps on the output side of my ldovr lt3045 cards. I still like them on the input side.

[Cornan]

On 9/29/2018 at 6:07 PM, look&listen said:

Picture? No-

Experience was with Ldovr (1A) modules. 1st added 2 560mfd Kemet alu polymer caps to output per recommended by 'enthusisatic experimenter' (based on MPAudio module configuration). Not like sound, like some other CA people, so removed caps & very happy with SQ+.

So suspect MPAudio modules (not have any here) maybe benefit with removal of output caps, but think recall from spec sheet that 10mfd recommended for ?? Research maybe good before proceeding with removal 

So with ~4 listening reports & Superdads explanation of LT304x output bandwidth vs caps, I think worth experiment to gain benefits of high(er) current LT3045 regulation!

 

Entusuastic experimenter. LOL! Maybe that’s a good explanation? I let others deside that one. What about me calling you a close minded electrician? Make sense? To enlight you I still favour the Kemet’s in series close to the powered device. I really think you gave it up way too early. Patience pays off in this hobby!  

 

Let me also inform you that I have reported several times where both LS-HPULN and MS-HPULN did’nt improve SQ on its own Nothing special really. It is all about implementation. Add another LT3045 in series and I can promise you that it will improve.

 

[look&listen]

On September 27, 2018 at 4:50 PM, lmitche said:

Adding the 3 amp Mpaudio lt3045 regulator after the 13.5 volt AMB Sigma 11 results in the worse sound of the three options.

 

1 hour ago, lmitche said:

Thanks and yes I have removed the kemet caps on the output side of my ldovr lt3045 cards. I still like them on the input side.

 

?? Not talking about ldover modules, but MPAudio. What will SQ change without output caps on you 3 amp Mpaudio lt3045 regulator?

[sandyk]

38 minutes ago, Cornan said:

First of all I’m amazed that you speak freely about things that you actually have’nt tried yourself. Your favorite expression have always been HF detail. You keep on using those words again and again. What does that really tell anyone? Nothing at all! Keep it real and let us know what you experience about things that you have actially tried IRL instead of giving everyone your personal opinion about how you think it should be in theory. 

 

I note that several members (see above as well) have already removed some of the very low ESR capacitors that you love so much in favour of a more correct tonal presentation. Uptone has also previously distanced themselves from your advice in this area..   

All that you seem to be presenting is a way to further improve the HF area of a streaming service by artificially increasing HF detail. That doesn't say too much about the rest of your system either if you need to go to such lengths. 

 

Just because several ebay "Entrepreneurs"  have jumped on the multiple LT3045 area to make quick $$$ doesn't validate this as the best way to do things. Large numbers of parallel LT3045s and LARGE heatsinks that won't fit in a typical case and still have adequate ventilation is simply the flavour of the month and "Butt Ugly", although 2 parallel LT3045s used in order to increase it's capabilities to 1A is a good idea if correctly implemented.

The LT3045 does an excellent job in the areas it was originally designed to be used in though , such as a +3.3V low noise supply for the Input device of a DAC and the +3.3V digital supply for a DAC chip as I have done, or as a very good regulator as others have used it for in some of their products.