A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[mozes]

18 hours ago, austinpop said:

Hey, quick question for folks in the sCLK-EX universe...

 

Last time I did this, I was using Digikey SMB cables like this one: https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/cinch-connectivity-solutions-johnson/415-0003-006/J1206-ND/456993

 

Has anyone found (or built) a better option for SMB clock cables? Applied JSSG or JSSG360? If so, please report.

These are the ones I use. The shortest the better so I am using 6 inch cables. I haven't tried any JSSG tweaks. These cables are very light and the connectors are fragile.

[Nevermind90]

Has anyone made a comparison between LS28 and REF5 SE?

[tapatrick]

On 1/26/2019 at 9:15 PM, auricgoldfinger said:

 

Here are 2 screenshots that will hopefully explain what I am doing.  In Device Setup, note the area inside the red box, which shows where I have set DSP volume.  The volume limits are immediately below.  I accepted the default values, but perhaps they can be changed elsewhere.  In my case, the volume limits are the same for both Device and DSP.

 

 

 

I have DSP enabled so that I can equalize a single band using Parametric EQ.  This is shown below.

 

 

I suspect this is definitely a situation where YMMV.   Let me know if you have more questions. 

 

EDIT: 

 

Here is one more screen shot with the volume shown.  If you click on DSP, it will take you to all the settings.

 

 

Thanks for suggesting, I'm giving it a try for a day or two by setting preamp to 100 on my PS Audio Junior DAC. I always assumed fixed was better. Not a major change - but does sound very nice, and possibly better which I wasn't expecting. 

[jcn3]

Any reason to not try AL with a NUC6i5 I currently use running Win10/AO/Fidelizer? I understand the concept of using a powerful CPU and having it operate without strain, but wouldn't the i5 have plenty of HP as a Roon endpoint with AL?

 

Also is there a trial period for AL? I realize outs not expensive

[jcn3]

1 hour ago, jcn3 said:

Any reason to not try AL with a NUC6i5 I currently use running Win10/AO/Fidelizer? I understand the concept of using a powerful CPU and having it operate without strain, but wouldn't the i5 have plenty of HP as a Roon endpoint with AL?

 

Also is there a trial period for AL? I realize outs not expensive

 

Sorry.  Probably not the right thread for this.  Cross posted in the right thread, I think.

[sandyk]

On ‎1‎/‎16‎/‎2019 at 10:47 AM, Iving said:

Correct

 

Incorrect

As posted before at CA and elsewhere, Optane PCIe AIC gives splendid results. I supply dedicated PCIe power from HDPLEX. No other drives required. All CPU/Avoids chipset.

Sorry, but any power derived from the motherboard itself WILL be degraded due to onboard switching regulators, and other components that are also powered from the motherboard itself,no matter whether the motherboard is powered by a Linear PSU or an existing SMPS. The lowest noise and best SQ will still be obtained by powering the SSD directly from the Linear PSU instead of from the motherboard IF possible.

 Yes, it will perform better when the motherboard is powered by a good low noise and low output impedance Linear PSU instead of SMPS though .

[auricgoldfinger]

4 hours ago, tapatrick said:

Thanks for suggesting, I'm giving it a try for a day or two by setting preamp to 100 on my PS Audio Junior DAC. I always assumed fixed was better. Not a major change - but does sound very nice, and possibly better which I wasn't expecting. 

 

Credit really goes to @EnjoyTheMusicNow for bringing it up.  My only contribution was the screen shots. 

[tapatrick]

4 hours ago, auricgoldfinger said:

 

Credit really goes to @EnjoyTheMusicNow for bringing it up.  My only contribution was the screen shots. 

Thanks @EnjoyTheMusicNow  for sharing...

 

[flkin]

Please be very careful when you set your pre-amp to 100%!  😮

 

Very easy to blow up your speakers and ears if you are not careful...

[tapatrick]

1 hour ago, flkin said:

Please be very careful when you set your pre-amp to 100%!  😮

 

Very easy to blow up your speakers and ears if you are not careful...

Of course! Thanks. Only doing this to use the volume in Roon.  It’s also fairly common to set the DS Junior to 100 if using a separate preamp. 

[rafa]

Anybody ever tried ELFIDELITY AXF-75 or Elfidelity AXF-74, memory Ram power filters? Does it make sense to use it?

 

[EnjoyTheMusicNow]

5 hours ago, tapatrick said:

Thanks @EnjoyTheMusicNow  for sharing...

 

No worries. Glad it is helping someone else as I'm still scratching my head as to why this makes the difference it does. Thanks to @auricgoldfinger for providing the screenshots.

[Advieira]

Who are using M.2 SSD in NUC? Is it good for audio? I think order a Samsung Evo 970 M.2 Nmve and keep it disabled or not when using AL or WS16 in ram mode.

[sjohnson]

On 1/5/2017 at 1:15 AM, romaz said:

Sure, Alex.

 

System Preferences > Network > Manage Virtual Interfaces

 

Once in Manage Virtual Interfaces, click the "+" sign at the bottom left of the screen and select "New Bridge".

 

Give this new bridge whatever name you'd like. You should have a selection of interfaces listed for you in the box to include in this bridge. Specifically, you should see your native ethernet port called "Ethernet". You should also see listed your other ethernet port that belongs to your Thunderbolt device. In my instance, this is called "Broadcom NetXtreme Gigabit Ethernet Controller" although yours may be called something else. Regardless, check the two ethernet ports you want included in this bridge and click "Done."

 

This should take you back to the previous screen. In the left window pane, you should see this new bridge you've created and its status. If it states "Connected", you may already be good to go. Regardless, make sure this new bridge is highlighted. Then look at the right window pane to see the specifics of this bridge. In the Configure IPv4 line, feel free to keep the "Using DHCP" option. This works just fine for me although if you feel compelled to create a static IP, you can do so. If you decide to use the "Using DHCP" option, then you don't have to bother hitting the "Advanced" tab, just hit "Apply" if you're not already connected.

 

You should be good to go. On my Mac Mini, it was that simple although you may require a reboot.

 

To verify that your microRendu is online, open up Safari and type in "www.sonicorbiter.com" and the control screen should come up. From there, make sure the HQPlayer NAA option is selected and you should be ready to play music. Let me know if this doesn't work.

Many thanks....I just found your instructions and implemented the bridged connection with results that were way more than just a pleasant surprise.  (The link earlier in the thread to Apple support article on bridging is no longer working.) I bridged a Bricasti M5 Network Player to a modded 2012 Mac Mini with an Apple Thunderbolt to ethernet adaptor.  Previously used a small managed switch.  Over the last year plus have focused a lot on optimizing power and isolation of system and networking components with very good results using a direct spdif connection from the M5 to Dynaudio Focus XD400 speakers.  Network modem, router, and switch are independently lps powered along with the Mini and the SSDs.  Having done all that and experiencing quite good results I was recently contemplating next steps and wondering if I'd optimized as much as feasible short of upgrading the whole system itself.  Bridging was an optimization I was definitely missing.  So finding this method is a very pleasant surprise.  Without getting into the details, it improved the sound across the board.  Best $29 (Tbolt-ethernet adapter) high bang for the buck mod I could have imagined.  Romaz again, thanks for the instructions and sharing...and thanks also to austinpop for moderating and organizing this thread!

 

Steve

[luisma]

On 1/26/2019 at 3:50 PM, austinpop said:

 

Wow this is news to me (Fixed vs. Device) - I have always used Fixed up to this point. So when you use Device, do you set the volume to 100%?

 

And am I reading right - @auricgoldfinger - there is a further gain by not only using Device volume, but by turning on DSP? I assume this means turning DSP on, but not actually engaging any of the DSP features (headroom management, sample rate conversion, and filters)? BTW - I just looked at DSP in Roon 1.6, and I don't even see the global flag to turn DSP on or off.

 

Something to try, but please be specific what I need to do. To be clear, assume the DAC does not have a software volume control.

I switched from fixed volume to device volume when HQPE implemented this a few versions ago (2 - months already), I changed my rig and my pre amp doesn't have a remote (Atma MP-3) since I also changed my rig from SS to tube I can't really comment on any improvements. I will try to do a comparison tonight on fixed vs variable.

 

Just note I don't consider this to be Roon's DSP but HQPE since it is my understanding Roon just passes the controls upstream (or downstream?) to HQPE and there the magic happens.

 

I was afraid of degradation in audio (as we all know from DSP volume settings), Miska confirmed this was not affected at all since we are upsampling already. 

 

DAC has no volume control, Dena Terminator, NOS mode always.

 

It will be interesting to test with no upsampling option (Roon or HQPE) and see the results

 

[luisma]

Don't know if you guys have read this article

https://twitteringmachines.com/everything-matters-a-tale-of-two-cables/

 

Written by @Michael Lavorgna

 

Good article, instructive etc.Here in this thread we all know that bits are not bits for audio, we all know the advantages of clean power etc. but something in the article brought my attention and I am resorting to this community for your opinions.

Michael states

"I can “see” one other WiFi network from my listening room. If you can see more than say, 30, I would suggest we have different environments when it comes to noise that may infect our mixed signal systems."

 

He is very on target using the word "may", he is not conclusive and I personally feel the same way.

 

Now I am a Mechanical Engineer, also do software, networks, computer related stuff, for some time already 38 years already, I also do RF assessments and designs and installs on high-rise buildings. I am not an electrical engineer like many of you in this thread, I know what a resistor, transistor, inductance etc is but I am not an expert in electrical circuits.

 

JS work is well known and great, we are dealing with two things here and if I am mistaken please comment.

 

We have EMI which is generated by the way electrical circuits work, electric fields generating interference, magnetic fields and radio waves of short magnitude (or is it?) through our equipment. We discovered that with good design circuits, good shielding etc we can minimize its effects, LPS power, JSSG, JSST etc. all goody here

 

Now (and I hope Rajiv @austinpop) and not off topic in any way, the effects of RFI, external RFI from our wireless, cordless, radio station next door, fire department, police etc. is not well understood yet. We think this "may" affect our digital music (maybe even analog) reproduction but we really have not actual experiment. Wifi, I install these for a living, not the Netgears, Linksys and home wifis etc. but the ones used at the airports and public places, Ruckus, Aerohive, Meraki etc. these usually transmit intensively in 2.4 and 5 GHZ as we all know. So some questions arise.

 

What effect will induce these in cables? 

Will the high frequency (relatively high) will detriment (or enhance) the music transport in our speaker wires, USB cables etc? 

Can we block these? (as a matter of fact we can but it is extremely hard, forget about aluminum foil, copper foil etc. I have tested this and the effects are minimal, and frequency dependent)

 

Like I said I have not experimented myself and I'm planning to do so, for work I purchased a Spectrum Analyzer from Keysight which I have been using for the last 4 years, I can measure RFI and I can even generate 30 dbm signals from the equipment in different frequencies.

 

If someone has already tested these your comments are welcome, I believe this is the correct thread however if we want to keep the 500 pages just for EMI mainly we can start another External RFI effects thread.

 

Thank you all

 

Luis

 

 

 

[luisma]

Just a disclosure, I'm not a dealer nor an audio industry professional trying to sell a product here. I may use any discoveries from my own experimentation or public experimentation in the future to incursion in this industry but so far I have not defined product or plan and I may never get into this commercially speaking

 

 

[luisma]

On 1/26/2019 at 1:51 PM, lmitche said:

Hi Luisma,

 

No disregard was intended. There are many factors that can contribute to differences in SQ and you are right, the DAC is potentially one of those. Computing hardware makes a huge difference as well, as does cabling, power supplies, player software, drivers . . . so without knowing much more it is tough to know what is going on.

 

Likewise properly tuning Audiolinux can make a huge difference in SQ.

 

My post was just to add another view acknowledging factors besides SQ as a major difference between these two OS choices.

 

FWIW, I started my CA travels five years ago running Audiolinux on an Asrock J1900 mini-ITX machine. I later found that Windows/AO sounded better on that machine and converted to Windows. Later hardware upgrades to a 6700k processor and a z170,  and later a z270 motherboard and Hqplayer upsampling to Dsd512 followed. I spent hours fighting Windows/AO DRM throughout these upgrades.

 

Converting that machine to a server running Audiolinux headless and Roonserver, connected to an I7 NUC running Audiolinux headless has been transformational on many levels.

Sorry Larry, wrong use of words, I did not meant disregard but more "taking in consideration"? English is not my native language, 

 

I agree Linux makes things easier by far compared to Windows, I am running Ubuntu and AL myself and testing.

 

The reason I was asking for the models of the DACs is usually the DAC comes with a driver and the OS implements their own accessing mechanisms to the USB ports

 

By the way we are assuming mostly USB usage but I think some are using I2S etc.

 

And I am genuinely puzzled by the comments that Windows sounds better, maybe the USB driver implementation, all these high end (geez these guys have very nice DACs @Metnoc and @kelvinwsy) DACs they do reclocking with internal buffers so I would think the OS is not that critical but it could be. Then we have which USB port is used 3.0 ? 3.1? 2.0? cables used? extra software that may be interfering (I personally discover that adding alsa utils etc. improved my communications in Linux)

 

So only testing we can determine. 

[tapatrick]

On 1/27/2019 at 10:49 PM, tapatrick said:

Thanks for suggesting, I'm giving it a try for a day or two by setting preamp to 100 on my PS Audio Junior DAC. I always assumed fixed was better. Not a major change - but does sound very nice, and possibly better which I wasn't expecting. 

After a few days back and forth testing software volume in Roon versus fixed volume, I'm staying with fixed as this sounds cleaner, other wise hard to tell any difference.

[EnjoyTheMusicNow]

I just installed my DAVE last night and now the difference is minimal if any. Maybe it is only the Quetest...

[marcoc1712]

On 11/23/2018 at 10:32 PM, austinpop said:

 

Could you please clarify the various squeezelite versions? Is R2 a different branch? What are the benefits of using it vs. the Ralph Irving latest 1.9.0-1 version? Especially if you don't need:

• HQPlayer
• transcoding via C-3PO?

Squeezelite-R2 was derived directly from the Triode's last version stored in Google code, ported in GitHub and modified. Then R2 patches were applied to Daphile and Ralphy version, both started from the same version in google code, we then agreed to consider the one maintained by Ralphy the new 'standard', so he always receives my patches and updates, but is obviously up to him to apply them or not.

 

In the "standard" version, to enable the R2 patch you need -W switch.

 

I then Applied Daphile DSD patches to R2, with some mods, in order to play 'native' DSD, same patches are now also in the Ralphy version, with minor differences.

 

So, R2 is the old Triode version plus R2 and Daphile DSD patches, nothing more, where "standard" includes much more that, in my opinion, is not needed.

 

Please consider Squieezelite-R2 a sort of 'minimalistic' Squeezelite, if you like, but you could exchange it with the standard one if you like it more.

 

 

[marcoc1712]

On 11/23/2018 at 8:26 AM, austinpop said:

 

Hi all,

 

Happy Thanksgiving to my fellow US Americans!

 

Today, as I was lolling half asleep in my tryptophan coma, the final piece of the jigsaw puzzle fell into place in my brain. We don't have to choose between the UI and UX of Roon that some of us require and the superior SQ of squeezelite, with the large buffers, that I reported above. The answer was sitting staring me in the face all along!

 

Why not do the thing Nuno has been promising for SE customers? I.e. run Roon as the server, and squeezelite as player? It turns out, it works!

 

It's a little tricky on a single box, but on a server-renderer solution like most of you guys are running it's a piece of cake. On the server side, it's just a little setting in Roon:
Settings > Setup > Enable Squeezebox support

 

Then over on the renderer, stop roonbridge and run squeezelite. The key is only one of these can run, because it has to open an exclusive ALSA connection to the DAC. Once squeezelite is running on the renderer, go back to Roon, go to Settings > Audio, and scroll down. You should find the squeezelite player visible as a device. Enable it, configure it, and off you go!  I do notice some issues though:

1. The Roon Device for the squeezelite instance allows a max sample rate of PCM 192. I don't know if this is a hard limit set by Roon, of if there is any way to bump that up to PCM 384k.
2. I do get the occasional glitch, where the playback will, abruptly in mid-song, skip to the next track. Perhaps it’s my version of squeezelite. I’m on 1.9.0.1. I need to see what's the most stable version of squeezelite.

On a single server machine like mine, the trick to avoid collisions at the ALSA interface is to disable the DAC as a Roon device first, then start squeezelite. For the reverse, stop squeezelite, then re-enable the DAC device in Roon. 

 

SQ wise - this is indeed the best of both worlds! I was a bit alarmed at the lack of free memory when I ran with -b 2GB:2GB so I dialed down to -b 1.5GB:1.5GB. This still sounds better than the Roon device.

 

Give it a try and tell me what y'all think.

Squeezelite(-R2) will always buffer only the current and the next track, so enormous buffers are not used. The golden role is to NEVER exceed the real amount of RAM available in your system, never make system paginate and swap, then use as much ram as you can.

[Advieira]

Does following path could work? A option to try clean the path of ethernet beggining in the router wall wart.

 

[seeteeyou]

On 7/22/2018 at 6:58 PM, tims said:

The Neutron Star 2 wouldn't be a suitable replacement for SOtM's sCLK-OCX10 master clock which I think produces 10.0MHz?

Can't see one with a 10.0MHz frequency on their products list.

 

I just realized that's available with 20% off, maybe that's good for connecting directly to stuff like Gustard U16 etc. without having to go through the degradation plus the high costs of clock cables?

 

http://www.newclassd.com/index.php?euip=1&page=221

[austinpop]

Listening Impressions with custom frequencies in AL v099

 

Like many have found here, I had previously found an uptick in harshness - particularly noticeable in electric guitar - when turning on Turbo/SpeedStep in the BIOS. So for a while now, I've been running at:

• Turbo/SpeedStep off in BIOS
• Extreme2 boot mode
• Governor Max, turbo off

On my Dell server machine, the difference between base (3.4 GHz) and peak (3.9 GHz) frequency is not too great, but in talking to Roy, he is playing with a CPU with a base of 2.4 and peak of 4.0 GHz. Which made us wonder: is there a sweet spot above the base and below peak for harshness and dynamics? 

 

Which led to a suggestion to Piero, to allow us to set custom frequencies. And lo and behold, he has delivered it in v.099! The theory here is that rather than turning off Turbo in the BIOS, you leave it on. Instead, use the Governor custom frequency setting to "dial in" a frequency. Also in theory, the "Idle=poll" setting of Extreme2 causes the current frequency to stay pegged to the current MAX setting. 

 

With all that said, here's what I heard, by varying frequencies on the server. The server is running Roon, while the endpoint (DS-1) is running squeezelite. I have not yet tried this experiment on the endpoint, but plan to at some point. 

 

So on the server - first, with turbo OFF, I varied frequencies from 100% (i.e. 3.4 GHz) down in 10% steps to 60%.

• Functionally, this worked. The governor setting would show the Min and Max frequency set to the desired value. And - going into the monitor menu and checking current frequency would show a match - there was always a small difference (<100MHz) between actual and the governor settings 
• SQ: With each step there was no change in harshness, but a noticeable drop in dynamics. 

Turning Turbo ON:

• Functionally, this was puzzling.
  • On my i7-4770, setting 100% (MAX) only raised the setting to 3.7 GHz, not the 3.9 rated peak. However, lower governor settings were respected.
  • On Roy's CPU, the system did not respect any settings, and stayed pegged at 3.8GHz, which is still not the peak of 4.0 GHz.
• SQ wise:
  • my Dell got much harsher even with the modest rise from 3.4 to 3.7GHz, with no change in dynamics
  • Roy's system got more dynamic with no increase in harshness.

So what does this all mean? Well, it means that Intel systems seem to respond differently to CPU governors (pstate-frequency), based on the BIOS and processor. We need more data points. I plan to try this on my endpoint.

 

If you've been running with turbo/speedstep off in the BIOS, try turning it back on, and give the custom frequency governors a shot. It would be good to know:

1. listening impressions at different frequencies
2. whether you can control frequencies (especially between base and peak) in turbo mode.

It's possible that the end result is that for some setups, turbo mode - either at the max or some intermediate frequency between base and peak - is better sounding than "turbo off."

 

Please give it a try.