The $3K all in exercize.

[GUTB]

31 minutes ago, AudioDoctor said:

 

Do you honestly think I said that after reading one post?  Also, being on the autism spectrum doesn't make a person insane.

 

I'm neurotypical, 100%. 

[kumakuma]

15 minutes ago, GUTB said:

 

I'm neurotypical, 100%. 

 

extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence

[Ron Scubadiver]

neurotic...

[tmtomh]

In my view we have no way of knowing what GUTB's psychological situation is, and frankly it's none of our business, and such judgments have no place here. All we can do is respond (or not respond) to the content of his posts.

 

In that vein, most of his comments strike me as narcissistic in the extreme - not in the clinical sense but in the rhetorical sense. He employs a classic technique for making hermetically sealed, tautological assertions: He labels whatever he doesn't like with a derogatory term ("consumer," "toy," whatever) and then makes blanket assertions using that term. So if you feel he's dismissing/attacking a piece of equipment without good reason, you have to both defend that piece of equipment, and also push back against the "real/toy" or "audiophile/consumer" binary he's established.

 

It's not easy to prosecute two arguments at once like that, especially since there's some truth to one of them: we all have encountered equipment we think is obviously "audiophile" or "real" in the sense that it's well-built and well-designed and engineered. Conversely, we've all encountered stuff we think is junk - "toy" or "consumer" in the sense of being targeted for lowest-price, with poor build quality, and so on.

 

But of course GUTB is using these actual distinctions to make highly suspect, and often wildly overstated, distinctions among pieces of equipment that by any reasonable standard are all "audiophile/real," and whose sonic differences are subtle or at least within a certain relatively narrow range.

 

Because he deals in absolutes; because he rigs the deck rhetorically by using highly biased labels; and because he has proven himself over and over again to be uninterested in others' perspectives or in new evidence or info that might alter his own view, I would recommend that folks do as @Jud recommends and simply ignore him.

Whatever GUTB might claim or believe, I would say his comments here clearly demonstrate a pattern of behavior that is hostile to or unable to engage in dialogue.

[rickca]

Well put, @tmtomh.  I'm not seeing my analyst anymore, you guys are way better. 

[GUTB]

1 hour ago, tmtomh said:

In my view we have no way of knowing what GUTB's psychological situation is, and frankly it's none of our business, and such judgments have no place here. All we can do is respond (or not respond) to the content of his posts.

 

In that vein, most of his comments strike me as narcissistic in the extreme - not in the clinical sense but in the rhetorical sense. He employs a classic technique for making hermetically sealed, tautological assertions: He labels whatever he doesn't like with a derogatory term ("consumer," "toy," whatever) and then makes blanket assertions using that term. So if you feel he's dismissing/attacking a piece of equipment without good reason, you have to both defend that piece of equipment, and also push back against the "real/toy" or "audiophile/consumer" binary he's established.

 

It's not easy to prosecute two arguments at once like that, especially since there's some truth to one of them: we all have encountered equipment we think is obviously "audiophile" or "real" in the sense that it's well-built and well-designed and engineered. Conversely, we've all encountered stuff we think is junk - "toy" or "consumer" in the sense of being targeted for lowest-price, with poor build quality, and so on.

 

But of course GUTB is using these actual distinctions to make highly suspect, and often wildly overstated, distinctions among pieces of equipment that by any reasonable standard are all "audiophile/real," and whose sonic differences are subtle or at least within a certain relatively narrow range.

 

Because he deals in absolutes; because he rigs the deck rhetorically by using highly biased labels; and because he has proven himself over and over again to be uninterested in others' perspectives or in new evidence or info that might alter his own view, I would recommend that folks do as @Jud recommends and simply ignore him.

Whatever GUTB might claim or believe, I would say his comments here clearly demonstrate a pattern of behavior that is hostile to or unable to engage in dialogue.

 

I’m neurotypical. That’s the truth.

 

My various assertions about gear are all based on experience and some knowledge. If I’m wrong, please refute them based on experience and/or knowledge. I’m a guy too and I’d be lying if I say I’m not biased in favor of my established opinions — but I try to overcome that bias. If someone says "this class D sounds awesome" I won’t ignore that data point. When I tried the Crown for example it was based on glowing review by another member; I was sure it was going to suck, but maybe I would be wrong so I gave it a shot...it sucked. The guy who recommended it just doesn’t know what quality audio is, so his wrong opinion doesn’t invalidate someone else’s.

[Ron Scubadiver]

Experience, knowledge and bias....

[Rexp]

3 hours ago, tmtomh said:

In my view we have no way of knowing what GUTB's psychological situation is, and frankly it's none of our business, and such judgments have no place here. All we can do is respond (or not respond) to the content of his posts.

 

In that vein, most of his comments strike me as narcissistic in the extreme - not in the clinical sense but in the rhetorical sense. He employs a classic technique for making hermetically sealed, tautological assertions: He labels whatever he doesn't like with a derogatory term ("consumer," "toy," whatever) and then makes blanket assertions using that term. So if you feel he's dismissing/attacking a piece of equipment without good reason, you have to both defend that piece of equipment, and also push back against the "real/toy" or "audiophile/consumer" binary he's established.

 

It's not easy to prosecute two arguments at once like that, especially since there's some truth to one of them: we all have encountered equipment we think is obviously "audiophile" or "real" in the sense that it's well-built and well-designed and engineered. Conversely, we've all encountered stuff we think is junk - "toy" or "consumer" in the sense of being targeted for lowest-price, with poor build quality, and so on.

 

But of course GUTB is using these actual distinctions to make highly suspect, and often wildly overstated, distinctions among pieces of equipment that by any reasonable standard are all "audiophile/real," and whose sonic differences are subtle or at least within a certain relatively narrow range.

 

Because he deals in absolutes; because he rigs the deck rhetorically by using highly biased labels; and because he has proven himself over and over again to be uninterested in others' perspectives or in new evidence or info that might alter his own view, I would recommend that folks do as @Jud recommends and simply ignore him.

Whatever GUTB might claim or believe, I would say his comments here clearly demonstrate a pattern of behavior that is hostile to or unable to engage in dialogue.

Do you think because the majority dont value gutb's forthright opinions that the majority must be right? I take the opposite view. One of the reasons I trust gutb's opinion is that he runs a turntable unlike the majority of posters and that makes him a true audiophile.

[pkane2001]

18 minutes ago, Rexp said:

One of the reasons I trust gutb's opinion is that he runs a turntable unlike the majority of posters and that makes him a true audiophile.

 

I so agree with you...

 

[kumakuma]

24 minutes ago, Rexp said:

One of the reasons I trust gutb's opinion is that he runs a turntable unlike the majority of posters and that makes him a true audiophile.

 

or a hipster

 

[tmtomh]

24 minutes ago, Rexp said:

Do you think because the majority dont value gutb's forthright opinions that the majority must be right? I take the opposite view. One of the reasons I trust gutb's opinion is that he runs a turntable unlike the majority of posters and that makes him a true audiophile.

 

I certainly respect your prerogative, and of course you should value whomever's comments you want to.

 

But I have to say, your response, and the logic of it, exemplifies some of what I don't like about GUTB's contributions: Of course I value forthrightness, as most people do. The issue - which your comment covers over - is whether or not GUTB's opinions are in fact forthright or whether they're... something else.

 

As for your claim that using a turntable makes one a "true audiophile," you've every right to your opinion, but you're not likely to get a lot of agreement about that here - not only because many here feel you can be an audiophile even if you don't have a turntable in your system, but also because lots of people use turntables and are not audiophiles. It's very difficult to support the claim that turntable vs no turntable correlates to true audiophile vs not an audiophile.

[AudioDoctor]

58 minutes ago, Rexp said:

Do you think because the majority dont value gutb's forthright opinions that the majority must be right? I take the opposite view. One of the reasons I trust gutb's opinion is that he runs a turntable unlike the majority of posters and that makes him a true audiophile.

 

I run 2 turntables...  What does that make me?

[Rexp]

4 minutes ago, AudioDoctor said:

 

I run 2 turntables...  What does that make me?

Gutb2

[tmtomh]

2 minutes ago, Rexp said:

Gutb2

 

So you're saying you consider AudioDoctor a true audiophile, and you value AudioDoctor's opinions?

[Jud]

3 minutes ago, Rexp said:

Gutb2

 

OK, that was kinda funny.

[AudioDoctor]

1 minute ago, Jud said:

 

OK, that was kinda funny.

 

I have to agree.

 

[fas42]

Historically, it's been easier to get key areas of the sound 'right' with vinyl - which is why that particular fight has lasted so long. This is now swinging around largely, and a straight digital setup no longer has to make so many excuses ...

[tmtomh]

While reading this thread from the beginning looking for the exact post where it went off the rails (GUTB's first post in the thread, unsurprisingly), I discovered so many cool suggestions earlier in the thread - nice!

 

I also appreciated the comments urging an emphasis on actual experience, and not just speculation (although these speculative exercises can be a lot of fun too).

 

My system is quite modest, but I enjoy it immensely. Prices are what I paid, not list. 2011 Mac mini dual drive with SSD ($700) Oppo UDP 205 - ($1000); Adcom GFA-5400 ($150); B&W 705s ($675); Blue Jeans digital cables and analogue interconnects (about $150 I think). So that's $2675.

 

My listening room is pretty small, about 11x13, and there's no problem reaching high enough SPL levels to pressurize the room. If I were to upgrade, my first step would be a new amp. If I had the money, I'd love to get a Bryston 2.5b3 to replace the Adcom.

 

On the speculative side, I'm eager to check out the KEF LS50 actives. I know they have some detractors, but the number of accolades they've gotten from both the audiophile press and regular folks across a wide variety of online forums makes me think they are worth checking out. My wife and I will be moving into a new house early next year, and for our living/great room I'd love to have the LS50 actives and use them with Roon.

[Ron Scubadiver]

@tmtomh big congrats on the new house.

[GUTB]

1 hour ago, tmtomh said:

While reading this thread from the beginning looking for the exact post where it went off the rails (GUTB's first post in the thread, unsurprisingly), I discovered so many cool suggestions earlier in the thread - nice!

 

I also appreciated the comments urging an emphasis on actual experience, and not just speculation (although these speculative exercises can be a lot of fun too).

 

My system is quite modest, but I enjoy it immensely. Prices are what I paid, not list. 2011 Mac mini dual drive with SSD ($700) Oppo UDP 205 - ($1000); Adcom GFA-5400 ($150); B&W 705s ($675); Blue Jeans digital cables and analogue interconnects (about $150 I think). So that's $2675.

 

My listening room is pretty small, about 11x13, and there's no problem reaching high enough SPL levels to pressurize the room. If I were to upgrade, my first step would be a new amp. If I had the money, I'd love to get a Bryston 2.5b3 to replace the Adcom.

 

On the speculative side, I'm eager to check out the KEF LS50 actives. I know they have some detractors, but the number of accolades they've gotten from both the audiophile press and regular folks across a wide variety of online forums makes me think they are worth checking out. My wife and I will be moving into a new house early next year, and for our living/great room I'd love to have the LS50 actives and use them with Roon.

 

Get the SSD off your Mac's power supply or use a SotM filter.

 

Get a linear PSU for the Oppo.

 

Upgrade from the Adcom ASAP.

 

Re-consider the mini-monitor configuration; you can still use full size speakers.

 

[Summit]

14 hours ago, AudioDoctor said:

 

I run 2 turntables...  What does that make me?

 

DJ

[Jud]

3 hours ago, GUTB said:

 

Get the SSD off your Mac's power supply or use a SotM filter.

 

Get a linear PSU for the Oppo.

 

Upgrade from the Adcom ASAP.

 

Re-consider the mini-monitor configuration; you can still use full size speakers.

 

 

Ah, you remind me of my dear late mother.

 

Every time I saw her for decades, among the first things she said to me were that I was too fat, my teeth were yellow, and I was balding.  For nearly the entirety of this time I would reply "Great to see you too, Mom," and laugh.

 

I soon figured out this came from her need to feel in control by causing me (and my brother and sister, who got similar greetings) to want the approval she was withholding.

 

I don't know whether you need to feel in control or knowledgeable or just to have others pay attention, but the need is obvious.  I hope (seriously) that you figure out a way to get whatever it is you need while being helpful and courteous to others.

 

I wanted to let you know, in case you might want to respond, that I have you on my ignore list, but I "check in" every so often to see if anything's changed.

[GUTB]

22 minutes ago, Jud said:

 

Ah, you remind me of my dear late mother.

 

Every time I saw her for decades, among the first things she said to me were that I was too fat, my teeth were yellow, and I was balding.  For nearly the entirety of this time I would reply "Great to see you too, Mom," and laugh.

 

I soon figured out this came from her need to feel in control by causing me (and my brother and sister, who got similar greetings) to want the approval she was withholding.

 

I don't know whether you need to feel in control or knowledgeable or just to have others pay attention, but the need is obvious.  I hope (seriously) that you figure out a way to get whatever it is you need while being helpful and courteous to others.

 

I wanted to let you know, in case you might want to respond, that I have you on my ignore list, but I "check in" every so often to see if anything's changed.

 

Setting aside her motives, was your mother right? Would you have been better off if you had listened to her?

 

I don’t want to ignore your analysis of me out of hand, I strive to be reality-based and get past my ego. It’s an interesting thought. In exchange, don’t you see that you’re being somewhat hypocritical by having a much higher end system than OP and pretending that he’s well positioned in audiophilia?

[AudioDoctor]

5 minutes ago, GUTB said:

I don’t want to ignore your analysis of me out of hand, I strive to be reality-based and get past my ego. It’s an interesting thought. In exchange, don’t you see that you’re being somewhat hypocritical by having a much higher end system than OP and pretending that he’s well positioned in audiophilia?

 

Wow...  was she right.  I don't even know how to respond to that.

 

Is price of a system how we are to judge each other on this forum?  Is it how we judge their opinions and insights?  Would you like us to use that same criteria to figure out how much weight to give your opinions and insights?

[GUTB]

4 minutes ago, AudioDoctor said:

 

Wow...  was she right.  I don't even know how to respond to that.

 

Is price of a system how we are to judge each other on this forum?  Is it how we judge their opinions and insights?  Would you like us to use that same criteria to figure out how much weight to give your opinions and insights?

 

No judgements needed. We’re all here in pursuit of better sound...right?

 

I thought my recommendations were good, low-cost options to match OP’s apparently modest means. Should I just pretend he’s fine, be supportive of whatever he’s decided, while I just dropped $4k on a single component and am about to drop $3k+ on another one? I want everyone to enjoy high-end sound.