Tuttle et al v Audiophile Music Direct

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

10 hours ago, Norton said:

Unless you accept the likely reality that MoFi customers are in turn a vanishingly small % of what you term “vinyl aficionados”.

 

Correct, and MoFi has a very limited catalog, consisting mostly of pop, so the appeal is obviously limited. 

 

This MoFi debacle has exposed audiophiles to the general public. 

 

It is indeed easy to ridicule those who have purchased MoFi albums and won't listen to them any longer because they are "digital". You know something has to be wrong when you are paying 60$ for a high quality 45 rpm version of "Raising Hell". I would really get a kick out of seeing an "audiophile" version of the Ramones' debut album, for example. But this is no more pathetic than those who state that they come to appreciate classical music because they listen to it in surround sound. 

 

Edit: it's out there! https://bighouseguitars.com/products/the-ramones-ramones-lp-remastered

[Gonzbull]

On 8/15/2022 at 3:07 AM, The Computer Audiophile said:

Perhaps there’s a positive side to this MoFi kerfuffle. People should now understand the benefits and quality of digital audio. I know it’s like pushing a kid down a hill on his bike, but some of us learned the hard/forced way. Vinyl lovers have now learned, through no fault or effort of their own, that digital is good. 

 

I’d spend $100 on the same MoFi package if it contained a USB stick of the DSD256 album, rather than the plastic disc. Sell these in limited quantities if that’s all the record label will license. 
 

 

Printing a digital file onto a piece of plastic and dragging a needle over it, absolutely can’t increase accuracy. 
 

P.S. I wonder what the hipsters who collect vinyl would think if it was called plastic. I fear the connotation would be too much to handle :~)

I understand what you're saying but I personally disagree. I'm a media composer so I work with both analog and digital audio daily. I predominantly listen to music digitally via Audirvana and its awesome. Sometimes I like to play a record and that is awesome too. Its a different process where there actually is one. Going through a record collection, the turntable, seeing something physical make music, etc. I'm not looking for accuracy at all. in fact its the inaccuracy that makes it what it is.

 

My father has a collection of over 6000 records. He played them daily and I got to choose whenever I wanted. Everything from Queen to the Muppet Show. That sound is still in my head. You can't get that sound from Digital or a crappy turntable setup. If I were to choose, I'd go digital as I really like the fidelity. When Im old and have inherited my dads collection, can't wait.

 

 

[firedog]

11 hours ago, PeterG said:

Exactly.  Only a dope would enjoy whiskey for its origin rather than its taste--the proof of the pudding is in the eating. 

I freely admit that I like some blends better than many (not all) single malts. I'm not embarrassed by it and refuse to let whiskey snobs effect me.

[sphinxsix]

 

11 hours ago, botrytis said:

 

SIMPLER - President Of ME.

Oh, she's a president of Mexico. Cool! ;-)

 

[sphinxsix]

4 hours ago, hopkins said:

But this is no more pathetic than those who state that they come to appreciate classical music because they listen to it in surround sound. 

Posting such statement here can mean only one thing - you're looking for trouble ;-)

 

[DuckToller]

4 hours ago, hopkins said:

Edit: it's out there! https://bighouseguitars.com/products/the-ramones-ramones-lp-remastered

Now, that would be a reason to re-start my record spinner:

Fidelity by heart, fun in mind.

No-one would discuss the lack of Hi-Fi in the original recording, and while headbangin' something like blacker background, depth of soundstage and crisp details is from outer world ..

[sphinxsix]

57 minutes ago, DuckToller said:

No-one would discuss the lack of Hi-Fi in the original recording

Always liked the sound of 'Brain Drain' produced by Bill Laswell. 

 

[DuckToller]

26 minutes ago, sphinxsix said:

Always liked the sound of 'Brain Drain' produced by Bill Laswell. 

 

There are some songs from the album I love to bits, but honestly, @sphinxsix you're a Laswell fan boy ... 😉

[The Computer Audiophile]

4 hours ago, Gonzbull said:

I understand what you're saying but I personally disagree. I'm a media composer so I work with both analog and digital audio daily. I predominantly listen to music digitally via Audirvana and its awesome. Sometimes I like to play a record and that is awesome too. Its a different process where there actually is one. Going through a record collection, the turntable, seeing something physical make music, etc. I'm not looking for accuracy at all. in fact its the inaccuracy that makes it what it is.

 

My father has a collection of over 6000 records. He played them daily and I got to choose whenever I wanted. Everything from Queen to the Muppet Show. That sound is still in my head. You can't get that sound from Digital or a crappy turntable setup. If I were to choose, I'd go digital as I really like the fidelity. When Im old and have inherited my dads collection, can't wait.

 

 

I love the story, but don’t see what you disagree with me about. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

6 hours ago, hopkins said:

 

Correct, and MoFi has a very limited catalog, consisting mostly of pop, so the appeal is obviously limited. 

 

This MoFi debacle has exposed audiophiles to the general public. 

 

It is indeed easy to ridicule those who have purchased MoFi albums and won't listen to them any longer because they are "digital". You know something has to be wrong when you are paying 60$ for a high quality 45 rpm version of "Raising Hell". I would really get a kick out of seeing an "audiophile" version of the Ramones' debut album, for example. But this is no more pathetic than those who state that they come to appreciate classical music because they listen to it in surround sound. 

 

Edit: it's out there! https://bighouseguitars.com/products/the-ramones-ramones-lp-remastered

You’re on your high horse again and will not be allowed to derail this thread. 
 

If you have a problem with me because I enjoy classical music in Atmos, start a new thread and let’s discuss why people are supposed to enjoy things the way you enjoy them. 

[botrytis]

12 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

You’re on your high horse again and will not be allowed to derail this thread. 
 

If you have a problem with me because I enjoy classical music in Atmos, start a new thread and let’s discuss why people are supposed to enjoy things the way you enjoy them. 

 

It seems that people can't get it out of their heads that there is more than one way to skin a cat, as the old saying goes. That is why there is variety in the equipment and music. Their way is not the only way to enjoy.

[firedog]

36 minutes ago, Gonzbul said:

You can't get that sound from Digital

Yeah you can: the right VSP plugins and DSP and/or a tube pre. Or a digital tube emulator.

 

I can even add the various noises that turntables and record playback adds to music reproduction. Actual turntable sounds, digitized. Makes your clean digital file sound like it's being played from an LP:

Adds surface noise, tracking noise, etc. Or the distortion added by the analog desks from Abbey Road.

I can even pops and clicks if you want them. 

All the glories of LP inaccuracy.

Sounds just like the old days.

I'm not joking.

[sphinxsix]

39 minutes ago, DuckToller said:

There are some songs from the album I love to bits, but honestly, @sphinxsix you're a Laswell fan boy ... 😉

😁 In the 80's, early 90's yes I was.. what he did back then was IMO quite progressive and interesting. Don't play his albums often nowadays but I quite like some albums (often single ones) he had produced for rockers eg Public Image Ltd, Iggy Pop and the way they sound.

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

26 minutes ago, botrytis said:

 

It seems that people can't get it out of their heads that there is more than one way to skin a cat, as the old saying goes. That is why there is variety in the equipment and music. Their way is not the only way to enjoy.

 

Absolutely, everyone can enjoy whatever they want, but why the need to explain after that "if they enjoy this its because they like distortion, not accuracy".  That makes me smile. Its not that simple, you have to make an effort and understand what it is that people enjoy about a system and not be so dismissive.

 

MoFi, as I said, is just one example of how businesses exploit the obsessive behavior of customers in the audio business. But to conclude that it puts an end to the idea that "digital" is bad and "vinyl" is good, is a little naive. 

[DuckToller]

17 minutes ago, sphinxsix said:

😁 In the 80's, early 90's yes I was.. what he did back then was IMO quite progressive and interesting. Don't play his albums often nowadays but I quite like some albums (often single ones) he had produced for rockers eg Public Image Ltd, Iggy Pop and the way they sound.

 

Love this work with Yothu Yindi ...

[JoeWhip]

50 minutes ago, firedog said:

Yeah you can: the right VSP plugins and DSP and/or a tube pre. Or a digital tube emulator.

 

I can even add the various noises that turntables and record playback adds to music reproduction. Actual turntable sounds, digitized. Makes your clean digital file sound like it's being played from an LP:

Adds surface noise, tracking noise, etc. Or the distortion added by the analog desks from Abbey Road.

I can even pops and clicks if you want them. 

All the glories of LP inaccuracy.

Sounds just like the old days.

I'm not joking.

Do not forget the crosstalk added by all cartridges.

[botrytis]

1 hour ago, hopkins said:

 

Absolutely, everyone can enjoy whatever they want, but why the need to explain after that "if they enjoy this its because they like distortion, not accuracy".  That makes me smile. Its not that simple, you have to make an effort and understand what it is that people enjoy about a system and not be so dismissive.

 

MoFi, as I said, is just one example of how businesses exploit the obsessive behavior of customers in the audio business. But to conclude that it puts an end to the idea that "digital" is bad and "vinyl" is good, is a little naive. 

 

MoFi is a tempest in a tea pot compared to some of the other shams, scams, etc. in audio. I have a friend that worked as a design EE in the electronics industry and that was part of the reason he left, too hard to protect IP.

[PeterG]

2 hours ago, firedog said:

Yeah you can: the right VSP plugins and DSP and/or a tube pre. Or a digital tube emulator.

 

I can even add the various noises that turntables and record playback adds to music reproduction. Actual turntable sounds, digitized. Makes your clean digital file sound like it's being played from an LP:

Adds surface noise, tracking noise, etc. Or the distortion added by the analog desks from Abbey Road.

I can even pops and clicks if you want them. 

All the glories of LP inaccuracy.

Sounds just like the old days.

I'm not joking.

 

Yes, this is a great point.  When we think about the sonics of vinyl, we typically think about a brand new, super clean LP on a very expensive turntable.  But these ideal conditions are very difficult, perhaps impossible to maintain--LPs do not remain brand new, especially well-loved LPs

[botrytis]

15 minutes ago, PeterG said:

 

Yes, this is a great point.  When we think about the sonics of vinyl, we typically think about a brand new, super clean LP on a very expensive turntable.  But these ideal conditions are very difficult, perhaps impossible to maintain--LPs do not remain brand new, especially well-loved LPs

 

Agree. Clean all you want; vinyl still degrades over time. It doesn't take much either.

[Rt66indierock]

17 hours ago, Samuel T Cogley said:

I'm a little confused by the consensus that MoFi buyers are an outlier of the general vinyl-buying public.

 

Aren't (digitally-sourced) new vinyl LPs already priced like $40-$50?  MoFi is just double this, not like 10x.

 

 

How big is the vinyl market? Last year about a billion dollars and MOFI's sales were nine mllion dollars last year. 

[Samuel T Cogley]

16 minutes ago, Rt66indierock said:

How big is the vinyl market? Last year about a billion dollars and MOFI's sales were nine mllion dollars last year. 

 

People spent a billion dollars on digitally-sourced vinyl last year?  Madness!

[PeterG]

2 hours ago, Samuel T Cogley said:

 

People spent a billion dollars on digitally-sourced vinyl last year?  Madness!

Much of what my kids enjoy about vinyl is the physical media/sensation.  That's completely understandable

[Samuel T Cogley]

2 minutes ago, PeterG said:

Much of what my kids enjoy about vinyl is the physical media/sensation.  That's completely understandable

 

Two years ago, there was a nice young woman who set up a booth at a local farmer's market to type out things on index cards using an old (sorry, "vintage") typewriter.  My bafflement about that and digitally-sourced vinyl is about equal.  🙂

[botrytis]

6 minutes ago, Samuel T Cogley said:

 

Two years ago, there was a nice young woman who set up a booth at a local farmer's market to type out things on index cards using an old (sorry, "vintage") typewriter.  My bafflement about that and digitally-sourced vinyl is about equal.  🙂

 

I think people who are reacting incredulously are doing it because it is more about dogma than sound quality or listening.

[Samuel T Cogley]

26 minutes ago, botrytis said:

 

I think people who are reacting incredulously are doing it because it is more about dogma than sound quality or listening.

 

Vinyl sounds better than the digital files that made it?  That's what I call dogma!!!