Building a DIY Music Server

[jean-michel6]

20 hours ago, lmitche said:

Thanks Dminches,

 

My experience is that in a computer running Euphony/Stylus more CPU power means better SQ. I believe there are many here that have had a similar experience with Euphony such as yourself.

 

The original comment was "since a more powerful CPU should sound (much) better under most circumstances". This is a complete generalization that makes no mention of Euphony. My objection is with the generalization.

 

The server mentioned in the post doesn't run Euphony. The post states it comes "with custom BIOS / stripped down version of Windows 10 IoT Enterprise LTSC" running on a Pentium J4205. While the Pentium is far from the fastest Intel processor, to imply that SQ must be below Euphony running on the fastest Intel processor is conjecture at best. We wouldn't know unless we have a listen. That is straight logic, not an opinion.

 

I believe people should listen to a solution before sharing an opinion based on some "theory" or extrapolation of others experience. There is no substitute for "hands-on" empirical evidence. An opinion on sound quality based on anything else is a disservice to the community.

Hi , myself I have  been using dual pc configuration using supermicro x10sba running on Daphile . I just copycat the board innuos was using .

The overall sq was quite good .

The I moved to an other dual configuration using the supermicro x11saa (used in statement innuos ) with an ereddock engineered card as the player .

Again a very nice boost in sound quality , again using daphile as software .

 

After reading all the very good feedback on using powerful pc board , I felt the itch to try this way .

I did move to a supermicro x10sdv-f board  a quite powerful 8cores Xeon server board with apacer ram and still used the ereddock from engineered as a player and again still using daphile as software.

The sq gain was very significant especially in dynamic , image and bass . 
No way to go back to low power configuration , even though it was good and very nice to hear ,  the high power pc server bring you much closer to life like music reproduction .

[OAudio]

14 hours ago, dminches said:

The market is wide open for someone else to build a DC-ATX converter.

 

 

That is an interesting comment. Do you mean

 

A DC-ATX using switched buck converters eg another HDPLEX type device.

 

or 

 

A true fully linear DC ATX system that plugs into the motherboard and is fully controlled, managed and monitored as an ATX supply ?

 

 

[dminches]

30 minutes ago, OAudio said:

 

That is an interesting comment. Do you mean

 

A DC-ATX using switched buck converters eg another HDPLEX type device.

 

or 

 

A true fully linear DC ATX system that plugs into the motherboard and is fully controlled, managed and monitored as an ATX supply ?

 

 

 

I meant an alternative to the HDPlex DC-ATX.

 

Of course, someone could also build an LPS with the necessary outputs to power a motherboard, CPU, etc.

 

[Tatomek7]

4 hours ago, cool_chris said:

Can't wait for your pictures Ricky !

 Here you can find some information on the subject

 

[cool_chris]

1 hour ago, Tatomek7 said:

 Here you can find some information on the subject

 

Thx.

Yes I know this one well.

Unfortunately I need step by step guide 

Or just a picture where to connect + and - of each voltage .

Also would love to know exactly what power supply can be sufficient for that.

Alternatively need someone who will be willing to do it for me here in Europe .

 

[RickyV]

6 hours ago, cool_chris said:

 

That would be fantastic if you can share it with us. Pictures would be great. 

 

I have number of MP audio modules so can get most of voltages required. 

Just not sure if the 3A max will work 

Also have no idea how and where to solger the 3 different voltages .

If this is easy I am willing to do that myself. 

If not I would be happy to pay for it and will be asking you to do it if possible or ask some local expert for help.

 

Can't wait for your pictures Ricky !

 

Indeed not sure if 3A is enough also because of heat. I use a 5A non MPAudio version with no heatsink and with only 1.8V on the input, they are about 40-50 degrees C. 
We will see I’ll make some nice pictures then you can decide what you want to do. Give me some time to finish it.

[Exocer]

@jean-michel6 thanks for sharing your experience going the SoC route. I will most likely follow suit as I contemplate my upgrade path from an ITX motherboard an i7 8700T.

 

In other news, I have completed my MPAudio dual output LPSU. It uses a pair of ALS-HPULN modules, Mundorf Silver/Gold 15.5 AWG wire and GX-16 connectors. Output is measure at a perfect 5V.

 

I chose not to shorten the transformer wires in the event that I want to replace it later and re-adjust the module for higher voltage.

 

The intended usecase is for whichever audiophile-specific USB/Ethernet card I go with in the future.

 

This is my first attempt at this so please do not hold back on criticisms 🙂.

 

I also have a Sean Jacobs DC3 12v LPSU in the works. After all of the recent talk of 10v I wish I would have had Sean tune the modules for 10v output ;).

 

The plan, to break in both LPSUs is to try various combinations of 5v/12v on my pair of Buffalo switches.

 

[cool_chris]

11 hours ago, RickyV said:

Indeed not sure if 3A is enough also because of heat. I use a 5A non MPAudio version with no heatsink and with only 1.8V on the input, they are about 40-50 degrees C. 
We will see I’ll make some nice pictures then you can decide what you want to do. Give me some time to finish it.

 

I waig for your pictures with guide how to ...

 

MP audio released not log ago wall mounted version that uses chassis as a heatsink and that module is 6A.

so if you are successful in getting this done your way we can alwas build something that is much more efficient in heat distribution.

 

[Soul Analogue]

6 hours ago, Exocer said:

@jean-michel6 thanks for sharing your experience going the SoC route. I will most likely follow suit as I contemplate my upgrade path from an ITX motherboard an i7 8700T.

 

In other news, I have completed my MPAudio dual output LPSU. It uses a pair of ALS-HPULN modules, Mundorf Silver/Gold 15.5 AWG wire and GX-16 connectors. Output is measure at a perfect 5V.

 

I chose not to shorten the transformer wires in the event that I want to replace it later and re-adjust the module for higher voltage.

 

The intended usecase is for whichever audiophile-specific USB/Ethernet card I go with in the future.

 

This is my first attempt at this so please do not hold back on criticisms 🙂.

 

I also have a Sean Jacobs DC3 12v LPSU in the works. After all of the recent talk of 10v I wish I would have had Sean tune the modules for 10v output ;).

 

The plan, to break in both LPSUs is to try various combinations of 5v/12v on my pair of Buffalo switches.

 

 

Not bad for a first attempt.

 

What is the current spec of each rail?

 

The Primary (Live and Neutral) and Secondary transfo wires and output wires had better be twisted for "natural" RFI/EMI rejection.

 

The chassis had better connected to the mains ground, for two reasons: shielding and safety (it keeps you alive if the mains happened to be shorted and you happened to touch it)

[basillus]

Exocer Said: 

I also have a Sean Jacobs DC3 12v LPSU in the works. After all of the recent talk of 10v I wish I would have had Sean tune the modules for 10v output ;).

 

 

Me: You just need a little screwdriver and a multimeter to read the dc output. 

[Exocer]

7 hours ago, Soul Analogue said:

 

Not bad for a first attempt.

 

What is the current spec of each rail?

 

The Primary (Live and Neutral) and Secondary transfo wires and output wires had better be twisted for "natural" RFI/EMI rejection.

 

The chassis had better connected to the mains ground, for two reasons: shielding and safety (it keeps you alive if the mains happened to be shorted and you happened to touch it)

[Exocer]

19 hours ago, Soul Analogue said:

 

Not bad for a first attempt.

 

What is the current spec of each rail?

 

The Primary (Live and Neutral) and Secondary transfo wires and output wires had better be twisted for "natural" RFI/EMI rejection.

 

The chassis had better connected to the mains ground, for two reasons: shielding and safety (it keeps you alive if the mains happened to be shorted and you happened to touch it)

I have speced each rail for up to 3A output at 5v with this transformer. giving 5.7V per rail. I misread your question.

 

@Nenon- hopefully you do not mind these posts :).

 

SJ DC3 is a work in progress now and I should have some pictures tomorrow evening.

 

 

 

 

 

[Nenon]

3 hours ago, Exocer said:

@Nenon- hopefully you do not mind these posts :).

 

Not at all. Power supplies are the most important part of a DIY music server, so your DIY power supply is right on topic.  I might have "affiliated with Sean" in my signature, but I am quite interested in anything DIY. And commercial products as a matter of fact. Also, as basillus mentioned the DC3 is adjustable - you can easily go from 12V to 10V.

[One and a half]

On 1/14/2020 at 6:31 AM, Nenon said:

I don't know the price. It was a four rail Sean Jacobs DS3 LPS, similar to what Innuos uses. Probably best to contact Sean Jacobs for that. http://www.custom-hifi-cables.co.uk/home/power-supplies/dc3-power-supply

I asked Sean if he is willing to sell some boards to the DIY community, but he is currently away. We'll probably get an answer next week.

 

Many others have considered a balanced power feed on the AC side as having benefits of a noticeable reduction in the purging of noise. For this topic, I had thought of ways to produce a balanced DC supply for computer use. DC has the advantage that it is 0 Hz, so in theory there's nothing to cancel. However. The DC in power supplies contains garbage from other pieces of equipment connected to the AC network, coupled capacitively through linear elements such as power transistors on heatsinks, mainly from the PC's PSU.

 

A Balanced 'DC' rail is actually DC+ a small amount of AC. It's the AC that can be effectively dealt with a balanced network, any asymmetrical voltages are 'gone', leaving pure(er) DC. This is especially important in ATX supplies where high currents are involved.  There's also load noise to consider, would also benefit from a balanced supply.

 

How this would be setup, is the centre connection is at 0V earth potential, wired back in a star scheme to the earth of the wall outlet or balanced AC supply mid point.

The 5V would be +/- 2.5V, 12V +/-6, the tricky part is 3.3V, since many 3 terminal regulators have a minimum of 1.25V, although with a bit of work and thought, can be overcome. 

 

Linear supplies would work well, and SMPS, but finding 6V or 2.5V off the shelf are not so easy to source, unless custom built like from Acopian. Like with a linear supply the fixed switching frequencies on a balanced supply are asymmetric from an SMPS, so the noise factor could reduce nicely as well.

 

I'm just putting this out there as a point of discussion as an improvement to remove noise. 

[basillus]

1 hour ago, One and a half said:

 

Many others have considered a balanced power feed on the AC side as having benefits of a noticeable reduction in the purging of noise. For this topic, I had thought of ways to produce a balanced DC supply for computer use. DC has the advantage that it is 0 Hz, so in theory there's nothing to cancel. However. The DC in power supplies contains garbage from other pieces of equipment connected to the AC network, coupled capacitively through linear elements such as power transistors on heatsinks, mainly from the PC's PSU.

 

A Balanced 'DC' rail is actually DC+ a small amount of AC. It's the AC that can be effectively dealt with a balanced network, any asymmetrical voltages are 'gone', leaving pure(er) DC. This is especially important in ATX supplies where high currents are involved.  There's also load noise to consider, would also benefit from a balanced supply.

 

How this would be setup, is the centre connection is at 0V earth potential, wired back in a star scheme to the earth of the wall outlet or balanced AC supply mid point.

The 5V would be +/- 2.5V, 12V +/-6, the tricky part is 3.3V, since many 3 terminal regulators have a minimum of 1.25V, although with a bit of work and thought, can be overcome. 

 

Linear supplies would work well, and SMPS, but finding 6V or 2.5V off the shelf are not so easy to source, unless custom built like from Acopian. Like with a linear supply the fixed switching frequencies on a balanced supply are asymmetric from an SMPS, so the noise factor could reduce nicely as well.

 

I'm just putting this out there as a point of discussion as an improvement to remove noise. 

Interesting, thanks for your input. You don’t have a picture/schematic about the balanced dc-rail setup, because I am not 100% sure that I have understand it correctly. 

[seeteeyou]

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/30376-a-novel-way-to-massively-improve-the-sq-of-computer-audio-streaming/page/702/?tab=comments#comment-1084936  

On 10/16/2020 at 2:27 AM, Nenon said:

I may try multiple runs of it in a power cable one day (with some vibration damping and Bocchino or Furutech NCF connectors).

 

No kidding, even RJ-45 went NCF for real

 

http://www.furutech.com/2020/10/05/20075/

http://www.furutech.com/ja/2020/10/02/20066/

Quote

Main conductor: 24 AWG Silver plated α (Alpha) OCC conductor
Insulation: Special Foamed PE OD.: 1.35±0.05mm, 4 Twisted Pairs
Blue/White; Orange/White; Green/White; Brown/White
Shield 1: AL foil Conductive layer to the outside
Shield 2: AL foil Double-sided conductive
Shield 3: α (Alpha) Pure copper wire (16/10/0.10) braiding layer
Jacket: UL/CL3 approved flammability grade; RoHS Compliant Flexible PVC (Black)
Sleeve: High quality nylon yarn braided (Purple/Black)

 

Really interesting cable for this Intona POEsy switch then?

 

https://intona.eu/en/products/poesy

https://intona.eu/en/products/buy/poesy/

 

FYI - an audiophile in China compared Intona to stock Melco S100 recently, the latter one didn't seem to be THAT much better despite such a significant price difference between the two

 

http://www.headphoneclub.com/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=740410&page=3#pid5228491

[One and a half]

14 hours ago, basillus said:

Interesting, thanks for your input. You don’t have a picture/schematic about the balanced dc-rail setup, because I am not 100% sure that I have understand it correctly. 

Here's a low noise design, but it's only a guide to illustrate the purpose, the voltages and currents are incorrect for ATX use. 30,000uF is substantial for power delivery, must say, not much would get through that.

 

When the load is connected across +VA and -VA, the voltage is 26V (not zero). +13V is measured at the + and PGND1 and -13V also at PGND1.

PGND1 is connected further back at the transformer to earth (ground) PE conductor (AC 12V C.T.) 

Depending on cable lengths, say 300mm or more, the load side PGND1 needs a separate wire back to the transformer earth point.

To ensure the noise cancellation works effectively, the + and - voltages need to be trimmed so they are they the same. I would expect 1mV or less would be achievable especially with lead sensing. AC transformers can balance to within 2% and work effectively at these parameters.

[Soul Analogue]

1 hour ago, One and a half said:

Here's a low noise design, but it's only a guide to illustrate the purpose, the voltages and currents are incorrect for ATX use. 30,000uF is substantial for power delivery, must say, not much would get through that.

 

When the load is connected across +VA and -VA, the voltage is 26V (not zero). +13V is measured at the + and PGND1 and -13V also at PGND1.

PGND1 is connected further back at the transformer to earth (ground) PE conductor (AC 12V C.T.) 

Depending on cable lengths, say 300mm or more, the load side PGND1 needs a separate wire back to the transformer earth point.

To ensure the noise cancellation works effectively, the + and - voltages need to be trimmed so they are they the same. I would expect 1mV or less would be achievable especially with lead sensing. AC transformers can balance to within 2% and work effectively at these parameters.

 

so for the computer environment, the ground of the PC will be connected to the -6V, -2.5v and -1.65v? ... I am not sure if multiple rails can be connected this way ...

there are many ways to deal with ripple noise in DC... this balanced supply theory looks like more complicated than necessary just to deal with noise...and the output impedance would be added up by the use of multiple transistors 

[Gavin1977]

3 hours ago, Soul Analogue said:

 

so for the computer environment, the ground of the PC will be connected to the -6V, -2.5v and -1.65v? ... I am not sure if multiple rails can be connected this way ...

there are many ways to deal with ripple noise in DC... this balanced supply theory looks like more complicated than necessary just to deal with noise...and the output impedance would be added up by the use of multiple transistors 

Surely for 'balanced' connection to work you need to have AC current?  This is how amplifiers work  AC-> Power Supply -> DC -> Amplifier Module -> AC to Speaker + & -.  Interconnects are also AC.

 

No sure of it's application to DC?

 

By the way, for signal transfer, this is by far the best paper I ever found on it.

Balanced and SE output AudioXpress.pdf

[One and a half]

The 0V from the PSU is at earth potential. The -ve rails cannot be grounded since it will cause a short circuit.

 

The 0V in a computer power supply is often earthed, the two PC's I have are out of the box.  Grounding one end to earth of the 0V doesn't guarantee that it will be the same at the load end, since noise pickup will create potential differences.

By using a balanced supply and routing the 0V can effective noise cancellation occur.

 

[Csaba]

The configuration of my new Control PC is shaping nicely and I have been thinking about the following build:

 

Morherboard:  

ASUS Z390-I ROG Strix Gaming mini ITX (familiar to many of you as I am following some recommendations regarding previous builds)

 

CPU:

i9-9900 (not the K version, as I am a little bit afraid of overheating in Streacom FC-10 case)

 

RAM:

2 x 8Gb Apacer ECC RAM (D31.23245S.001) Hope it will be compatible with the motherboard.

Any experience with this specific RAM under the mentioned item number?

 

Boot drive for OS and Roon Core:

Could you please advice a new Optane model, as MEMPEK1W032GAXT is not available anymore?

 

Storage drive:

Would need 1Tb or 2Tb internal storage.

Your kind advice would be highly appreciated and were thinking about M2 SSD. There are cheaper solutions but concerned those will generate more noise.

 

Thank you very much in advance for your advice.

[Exocer]

41 minutes ago, Csaba said:

The configuration of my new Control PC is shaping nicely and I have been thinking about the following build:

 

Morherboard:  

ASUS Z390-I ROG Strix Gaming mini ITX (familiar to many of you as I am following some recommendations regarding previous builds)

 

CPU:

i9-9900 (not the K version, as I am a little bit afraid of overheating in Streacom FC-10 case)

 

RAM:

2 x 8Gb Apacer ECC RAM (D31.23245S.001) Hope it will be compatible with the motherboard.

Any experience with this specific RAM under the mentioned item number?

 

Boot drive for OS and Roon Core:

Could you please advice a new Optane model, as MEMPEK1W032GAXT is not available anymore?

 

Storage drive:

Would need 1Tb or 2Tb internal storage.

Your kind advice would be highly appreciated and were thinking about M2 SSD. There are cheaper solutions but concerned those will generate more noise.

 

Thank you very much in advance for your advice.

I use this exact RAM with the Asus z390-i ROG Srix motherboard. Zero compatibility issues.

[ASRMichael]

4 hours ago, Csaba said:

The configuration of my new Control PC is shaping nicely and I have been thinking about the following build:

 

Morherboard:  

ASUS Z390-I ROG Strix Gaming mini ITX (familiar to many of you as I am following some recommendations regarding previous builds)

 

CPU:

i9-9900 (not the K version, as I am a little bit afraid of overheating in Streacom FC-10 case)

 

RAM:

2 x 8Gb Apacer ECC RAM (D31.23245S.001) Hope it will be compatible with the motherboard.

Any experience with this specific RAM under the mentioned item number?

 

Boot drive for OS and Roon Core:

Could you please advice a new Optane model, as MEMPEK1W032GAXT is not available anymore?

 

Storage drive:

Would need 1Tb or 2Tb internal storage.

Your kind advice would be highly appreciated and were thinking about M2 SSD. There are cheaper solutions but concerned those will generate more noise.

 

Thank you very much in advance for your advice.

Ref Boot drive. Did you check Amazon?

[lmitche]

On 11/4/2020 at 1:23 AM, Nenon said:

Power supplies are the most important part of a DIY music server

Hi Nenon,

 

Do you mean that power supplies are the most important contributor to SQ in a music server?

 

Larry

[realDHT]

Since this is a DIY thread and there has also been some posts about clock upgrades here, I want to spread the word that the masterclock group buy at diyAudio forum is in its final stage where all testing is finished, prices have been decided and the main developer and GB organizer andrea_mori has started collecting orders. andrea_mori has developed high performance oscillators for many years and has organized several group buys before. There are many items available in the GB but the main interest for computer audio applications would be the TWTMC-PXO-AIO, this is an oscillator with 2 frequency doublers integrated on a single 211x100 mm circuit board. This is the one that is available for 24 MHz and 25 MHz output (so the crystal frequency is 6.00 and 6.25 MHz respectively). They are available as built and tested (you would have to mount it in a box and solder the crystal), or if you are comfortable with SMD soldering you can do some of the soldering yourself and buy it semi-built for lower price.

 

There is a Minimum Order Quantity at the crystal supplier (Laptech) of 15 items for each frequency, therefore I hope someone from here might join so we can reach this number. If MOQ is not reached the orders will be canceled. Most guys at diyAudio will only order the typical DAC frequencies. Deadline for the group buy is not decided yet, my guess is within a few weeks from now.   

 

To summarize ,these oscillators have very good performance, phase noise is not far from the best commercially available oscillators on the market. The price is very fair considering the performance.  

I have signed up for 24 MHz (6.000 x 4) to use for modifying my JCAT femto USB card. I have no commercial connections to the group buy.
 

https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/group-buys/291925-tempered-master-clock-buy-66.html#post6397808

check the file part_II for the AIO oscillator phase noice measurements and other specs

 

https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/group-buys/291925-tempered-master-clock-buy-62.html#post6395611

check the prices in the order form

 

The main discussion thread is very long and quite messy, contains several years of development

https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/261651-tempered-master-clock-building-low-phase-noise-jitter-crystal-oscillator.html