Building a DIY Music Server

[OAudio]

On 10/14/2020 at 6:58 PM, Superdad said:

(probably for its 3.3V input, small footprint, programmability,

 

and fancy gold color)

 

 

On 10/14/2020 at 6:58 PM, Superdad said:

For comparison the $10 25MHz Crystek 575s we use are running about -108 to -112. Compensating for the 2.5 octave difference that -110dBc/Hz average equates to about -119 if that 25MHz Crystek was a 10MHz clock.

So why pay $150 for just unneeded long-term frequency stability. For these applications it does not matter at all if the frequency drifts a tiny bit over time!  

 

Absolutely.

 

 

[Gavin1977]

18 hours ago, Csaba said:

Hello,

 

I would like to ask for your kind advice, which scenario would be the best solution for me in case of building a music server/control PC (as Roon Core).

 

System:

The dac to be used is an Ayre QX-5 Twenty (via USB input), which synergize well with my endpoint SOtM SMS-200ultra (with SPS-500).

According to one of our very knowledgeable forum members (who knows both products very well), the Ayre QX-5 Twenty is not a DAC that can be transformed by HQPlayer (with heavy PCM to DSD conversion). Therefore only PCM upsampling is needed to 352/384 kHz, so heavy computing power is not really necessary.

OS would be Audiolinux (with Roon Core + HQPlayer, if needed) or Roon Rock.

 

1st scenario

Cirrus7 fanless case with NUC 7i7DNBE

PSU: I would allocate my existing SOtM SPS-500 for this purpose (and my SMS-200ultra would get a new PSU, e.g. Farad Super3 12v)

 

2nd scenario

HDPlex H3

Intel i7-8700K (or similar Intel i7)

PSU: Keces P8 (and my SMS-200 ultra would remain with SPS-500)

 

For the sake of simplicity (especially for PSU), I am leaning toward the NUC scenario, but the 2nd scenario would add higher flexibility (for future upgrades) and CPU power is higher.

 

Thank you very much for your advice(s) in advance.

 

Regards,

Csaba

2nd scenario - I tried what you have listed in 1st Scenario and then moved to i7-8700k (or 8086k in my case) and does sound better.

[adamaley]

On 10/12/2020 at 3:49 PM, Nenon said:

Just so everyone is aware - I am now officially affiliated with Sean Jacobs.

 

Per the forum rules:

1. My signature clearly displays that.

2. I will not promote his products but can answer any questions you have.

 

That is actually good news for the DIY community here, because:

a) I am not doing any of that to pay my bills. Any work I do with Sean is planned to be invested back in my hobby!

b) I will have access to as many of his DC4 rails as I need for my personal experiments. And that is very exciting news.

So what can I do with some extra cash for my DIY experiments and a number of DC4 rails available? Hmmm, I can think of A LOT OF THINGS! And I hope I have the time to do all of them. 

 

You can expect me to continue to share any successful DIY experiments as I always have. I understand if you take my words with a grain of salt from now on. And you should! But my only goal and agenda remains to advance the level of my system.

 

I may sound like a broken record here but I'd like to thank @Nenon for all the help he has given the community in the realm of digital audio. Personally, he has provided advice and guidance on so many aspects of my current system. I never dreamt my system could attain these heights, and I'm in awe of what I hear every day. 

 

Congratulations on your affiliation with Sean. It's all due to your hard work. I look forward to what you guys come up with as a team in the future.

[seeteeyou]

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/30376-a-novel-way-to-massively-improve-the-sq-of-computer-audio-streaming/page/702/?tab=comments#comment-1085485  

1 hour ago, cool_chris said:

Remember there are few hyper expensive Delund capacitors and Mundorf capacitors in the gigantic power section of the Extreme already so you might want to balance it a little for more transparent effects. 

 

FYI - they really aren't THAT expensive IMHO and there's only one £195 Duelund CAST Silver inside each Extreme

 

https://www.hificollective.co.uk/catalog/castdcag010-01uf-630v-duelund-cast-silver-stock-p-9417.html

 

13 pieces of Mundorf MLytic AG were placed next to Duelund and obviously they're quite affordable, and then we could find 2 more nearby but they're still inexpensive

 

https://www.hificollective.co.uk/catalog/-c-61_68_182.html

https://www.hificollective.co.uk/catalog/-c-61_68_393.html

 

There's a much larger one on the other side that might look more like Mundorf MLytic HC, once again it wouldn't cost too much in the first place

 

https://www.hificollective.co.uk/catalog/-c-61_68_236.html

https://www.hificollective.co.uk/catalog/-c-61_68_412.html

https://www.monoandstereo.com/2020/02/taiko-audio-sgm-extreme-experience.html

 

Duelund CAST Silver seemed to be a solid performer, it's just almost nobody was interested other than Taiko Audio 

 

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/58164-building-a-diy-music-server/page/28/?tab=comments#comment-1078052

[Gavin1977]

15 minutes ago, seeteeyou said:

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/30376-a-novel-way-to-massively-improve-the-sq-of-computer-audio-streaming/page/702/?tab=comments#comment-1085485  

 

FYI - they really aren't THAT expensive IMHO and there's only one £195 Duelund CAST Silver inside each Extreme

 

https://www.hificollective.co.uk/catalog/castdcag010-01uf-630v-duelund-cast-silver-stock-p-9417.html

 

13 pieces of Mundorf MLytic AG were placed next to Duelund and obviously they're quite affordable, and then we could find 2 more nearby but they're still inexpensive

 

https://www.hificollective.co.uk/catalog/-c-61_68_182.html

https://www.hificollective.co.uk/catalog/-c-61_68_393.html

 

There's a much larger one on the other side that might look more like Mundorf MLytic HC, once again it wouldn't cost too much in the first place

 

https://www.hificollective.co.uk/catalog/-c-61_68_236.html

https://www.hificollective.co.uk/catalog/-c-61_68_412.html

https://www.monoandstereo.com/2020/02/taiko-audio-sgm-extreme-experience.html

 

Duelund CAST Silver seemed to be a solid performer, it's just almost nobody was interested other than Taiko Audio 

 

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/58164-building-a-diy-music-server/page/28/?tab=comments#comment-1078052

Duelund CAST Silver may well be acting as a bypass capacitor, which could deliver most of the sonic benefits allowing  MLytic to be used elsewhere.

[ASRMichael]

Is the Extreme using individual LPS rails? or is it similar to using a 800w HDPlex HIFI-DC-ATX card?

[ASRMichael]

10 hours ago, seeteeyou said:

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/30376-a-novel-way-to-massively-improve-the-sq-of-computer-audio-streaming/page/702/?tab=comments#comment-1085485  

 

FYI - they really aren't THAT expensive IMHO and there's only one £195 Duelund CAST Silver inside each Extreme

 

https://www.hificollective.co.uk/catalog/castdcag010-01uf-630v-duelund-cast-silver-stock-p-9417.html

 

13 pieces of Mundorf MLytic AG were placed next to Duelund and obviously they're quite affordable, and then we could find 2 more nearby but they're still inexpensive

 

https://www.hificollective.co.uk/catalog/-c-61_68_182.html

https://www.hificollective.co.uk/catalog/-c-61_68_393.html

 

There's a much larger one on the other side that might look more like Mundorf MLytic HC, once again it wouldn't cost too much in the first place

 

https://www.hificollective.co.uk/catalog/-c-61_68_236.html

https://www.hificollective.co.uk/catalog/-c-61_68_412.html

https://www.monoandstereo.com/2020/02/taiko-audio-sgm-extreme-experience.html

 

Duelund CAST Silver seemed to be a solid performer, it's just almost nobody was interested other than Taiko Audio 

 

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/58164-building-a-diy-music-server/page/28/?tab=comments#comment-1078052

In the review it states the Duelund capacitors are $1000 each, hifi collective $210. Quite a difference. Are they the same specification? 

[Nenon]

57 minutes ago, ASRMichael said:

In the review it states the Duelund capacitors are $1000 each, hifi collective $210. Quite a difference. Are they the same specification? 

 

The MSRP of the Duelund CAST Silver Capacitors used to be very high. Here is an example of one value above 0.1 uF - 

https://www.partsconnexion.com/DUELUND-77035.html - with MSRP of $1,499.95.

 

Duelund created its own competition when they released the Tinned Copper version. It was supposed to be a more affordable option to the silver and the hybrid (copper/silver) caps. It turned out many people (including me) prefered the tinned copper version over the copper or hybrid (copper/silver) version.

Here is a review that ranks the hybrid less than the tinned copper version: http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html

 

As a result of this, the tinned copper version became the most seeking of the CAST range caps. And that is probably what drove the cost down on the other models. 

[auricgoldfinger]

19 minutes ago, Nenon said:

 

The MSRP of the Duelund CAST Silver Capacitors used to be very high. Here is an example of one value above 0.1 uF - 

https://www.partsconnexion.com/DUELUND-77035.html - with MSRP of $1,499.95.

 

Duelund created its own competition when they released the Tinned Copper version. It was supposed to be a more affordable option to the silver and the hybrid (copper/silver) caps. It turned out many people (including me) prefered the tinned copper version over the copper or hybrid (copper/silver) version.

Here is a review that ranks the hybrid less than the tinned copper version: http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html

 

As a result of this, the tinned copper version became the most seeking of the CAST range caps. And that is probably what drove the cost down on the other models. 

 

Are any of these CAST range caps used in a DC4?

[RickyV]

6 minutes ago, Nenon said:

 

The MSRP of the Duelund CAST Silver Capacitors used to be very high. Here is an example of one value above 0.1 uF - 

https://www.partsconnexion.com/DUELUND-77035.html - with MSRP of $1,499.95.

 

Duelund created its own competition when they released the Tinned Copper version. It was supposed to be a more affordable option to the silver and the hybrid (copper/silver) caps. It turned out many people (including me) prefered the tinned copper version over the copper or hybrid (copper/silver) version.

Here is a review that ranks the hybrid less than the tinned copper version: http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html

 

As a result of this, the tinned copper version became the most seeking of the CAST range caps. And that is probably what drove the cost down on the other models. 

Hi Nenon 

You are probably the only person here who has heard these capacitors, have you done comparisons tests with and without Duelund caps? Do they make such a difference to justify those insane prices? 
Have you tried  the Duelund JDM bypass capacitors they are a bit more reasonable priced, in speaker filters or power supplies? In my speaker filters I used the Audyn TRI-Reference Caps but a little help from a few Duelunds could not hurt.

[RickyV]

11 hours ago, ASRMichael said:

Is the Extreme using individual LPS rails? or is it similar to using a 800w HDPlex HIFI-DC-ATX card?

For what I can see there is one transformer with one output AC rail. That ac rail gets rectified in the second picture of @seeteeyou’s post, with a buffer capacitor and parallel bypass capacitor. Than a two wire negative goes to the capacitor bank and a two wire positive goes via the Lundahl choke and to the capacitor bank. From there it is unknown but underneath the capacitor bank are probably several linear or switch mode regulators for all the different voltages.

Boy Would I like a peek underneath that bank.

 

[RickyV]

23 minutes ago, auricgoldfinger said:

 

Are any of these CAST range caps used in a DC4?

I think the DC4 uses Audio Note Kaisei Electrolytic Capacitor they are a remake of the famous Black Gate capacitors that stoped production.

[dctom]

My mother board has suddenly gone down, ASRock Intel Z390 Phantom Gaming ITX/ac, anyone else had this issue?

The PH power supply and Hdplex ATX are working ok.

[Nenon]

 

2 hours ago, RickyV said:

Hi Nenon 

You are probably the only person here who has heard these capacitors, have you done comparisons tests with and without Duelund caps? Do they make such a difference to justify those insane prices? 
Have you tried  the Duelund JDM bypass capacitors they are a bit more reasonable priced, in speaker filters or power supplies? In my speaker filters I used the Audyn TRI-Reference Caps but a little help from a few Duelunds could not hurt.

 

Pretty sure I am not the only person :). I like the Duelund CAST range a lot. Especially the tinned copper version. I used them everywhere I can in the signal path. My line stage has them. My phono stage has them. My monoblocks have them. That's all tube equipment and they are the best coupling caps I have heard. My speakers also have some Duelund caps. I have a pair of massive 8.2 uF speaker Duelund CAST tinned copper that I custom ordered at some point. The size of these caps is insane! Bigger than the woofers on some speakers :). Very expensive but no regrets there.

I never tried the CAST silver as they were insanely expensive... think $10K+ for a pair of decent value caps. It's good to see them with 80% off and even that is still expensive. 

I have tried the CAST copper, CAST tinned copper, and CAST Hybrid (copper/silver). From those 3 models, I liked the tinned copper the most. I have compared them with quite a few other caps, including Jupiter copper foil, all kinds of Mundorf film caps, pretty much every vCap model, AudioNote, Miflex, Audyn, ClarityCap, Dynamicap, and a few more over the years. Duelund CAST tinned copper is my all time favorite.  

I have also tried their bypass caps in various applications - those or hit or miss. They work okay in some places and don't at others. 

Having said all that, this is all about signal path caps on my tube equipment and passive crossovers. 

Power supply application is completely different. We use much bigger capacitors there. The smaller Duelund values can be used as filtering caps or bypass caps. I have tried various film caps in the prototype high current LPS I was testing with Sean Jacobs. There was one place where they made good enough difference to consider using something like the Duelund. And that is on the high current power supply, not the regular DC4. A Duelund capacitor is not going to do miracles in most power supplies. 

 

The power supply on the Extreme is fundamentally different. I am sure Emile put Duelund caps there for a very good reason. They work really well on the Extreme - I am confident about that. But that does not mean they would work everywhere. I don't use them on my power supply. And it's not because I exceeded my budget. Let's keep it at that.

 

2 hours ago, auricgoldfinger said:

Are any of these CAST range caps used in a DC4?

 

2 hours ago, RickyV said:

I think the DC4 uses Audio Note Kaisei Electrolytic Capacitor

 

@RickyV is correct. The DC4 uses Audio Note caps and Z-foil resistors. 

[Nenon]

1 hour ago, dctom said:

My mother board has suddenly gone down, ASRock Intel Z390 Phantom Gaming ITX/ac, anyone else had this issue?

The PH power supply and Hdplex ATX are working ok.

 

Sorry to hear that. I usually try to connect a regular PC ATX power supply with its stock cables when something goes wrong. And I also connect a CPU fan to see of it would start spinning.

It's a good way to rule out a dead motherboard vs. something else. 

[seeteeyou]

6 hours ago, ASRMichael said:

In the review it states the Duelund capacitors are $1000 each, hifi collective $210. Quite a difference. Are they the same specification? 

 

FYI - here's the official statement in 2019

 

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?id=209346612428600&story_fbid=2557407504289154

Quote

Due to significant investments from our major distributors - a selection of the most popular CAST Silver 630v capacitors can now be offered at much more attainable price leves. 

 

And then here's the verdict

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/B3RS56aJzuz/

Quote

In contest are
- pure silver cast 1uf
- tinned copper cast 1uf
- copper cast 1uf

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/B3Wa_vkJpY3/

Quote

I would rate; - Pure Copper cast 9 out of 10 - Tinned Copper cast 9.5 out of 10.
...For the top end separation.

 

And the best affordable capacitor out there at the moment. ...So what is 10!!!? ...someone has asked me that question before. ;-),
I honestly don't know but at the moment I would say the Silver cast is 10 or even more...,

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/B3Y9gvtpMf3/

Quote

Duelund Pure Silver Cast capacitors. ...It's actually unbelievable what this silver cap does to the music!

 

It's like sitting in front of a massive wall of multilayered sound that comes from very deep black and quiet background and riches somewhere behind your head, sound of cymbals or piano has that beautiful glow around it and top-end notes sound so 3d as there are some ghosts around my head whispering to my ears,

 

it makes me listen to well-known by me tracks over and over again! wow!

 

I know it sounds crazy but the music becomes so tangible, involving and hallucinogenic that I have become a silver cast addict!. You get massive soundstage, deep and wide! super quiet background, big and well shaped bass and best top-end ever, never bright or annoying, ... I actually worried about that, thinking silver is known to be quite bright! But not in this case, Duelund silver sounds big and well balanced and takes you right into the show!

 

It's a real step up from an amazing copper family as the bigger price would suggest.

 

Unfortunately, they are not cheap, but you definitely get what you paid for.

 

I rate it 10 out of 10!

 

So far the reference! and best audio capacitor that I know of.

 

[gererick]

Duelund’s purchase of Jenson’s production line has materially changed pricing (lower), from what I understand (and from my experience based on an order for some CAST tinned copper caps for my amps).

[Soul Analogue]

Morning 

 

Successfully boot up the epyc server with my full linear atx psu

The voltages are pretty stable during prime95 stress test

here are some making of photos 

 

its about time to build the rails for add on cards! Stay tuned😁

cheers

[RickyV]

7 hours ago, Nenon said:

@RickyV is correct. The DC4 uses Audio Note caps and Z-foil resistors

Ah I didn’t know about the z-foil but was wondering if that would beneficial.

And I guess that there now 3 LT1084 used?

[dctom]

8 hours ago, Nenon said:

 

Sorry to hear that. I usually try to connect a regular PC ATX power supply with its stock cables when something goes wrong. And I also connect a CPU fan to see of it would start spinning.

It's a good way to rule out a dead motherboard vs. something else. 

 

 

Thanks Nenon - will try that.

[Nenon]

17 hours ago, RickyV said:

And I guess that there now 3 LT1084 used?

No. He has done something different that lowers the noise up to 1000 times for lower current draw. Exactly how much lower it depends on the current draw. 

[dctom]

Anyone tried a MSI motherboard? thought I might try this as an experiment -MSI MPG Z390 Gaming Edge AC fr a server build.

[dminches]

3 minutes ago, dctom said:

Anyone tried a MSI motherboard? thought I might try this as an experiment -MSI MPG Z390 Gaming Edge AC fr a server build.

 

I have not tried one but my current thinking on motherboards is more about the BIOS and what control it gives over various CPU and power settings.  

 

In addition, I found that the BIOS for the Intel ASUS motherboards were more flexible than the BIOS for the AMD motherboards.

 

[Gavin1977]

10 hours ago, dctom said:

Anyone tried a MSI motherboard? thought I might try this as an experiment -MSI MPG Z390 Gaming Edge AC fr a server build.

I used to use MSI Z97I Gaming AC ITX - a little old now, but sounded very good to me.

[dctom]

thanks for the replies