Building a DIY Music Server

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1 minute ago, MarcelNL said:

1 for @RickyV

2 for @Nenon

2 for @ciccio1112

2 for me as well 😎

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5 minutes ago, MarcelNL said:

2 @rico25

2 @Tatomek7

2 @basillus

2 @Exocer

2 @letterman

2 @drjimwillie

1 @RickyV

2 @Nenon

2 @ciccio1112

2 @exocer

2 @elan120

2 @David Whistance

2 @Gavin1977

2 @Johnseye

 

(thanks for spotting that omission!)

 

 

Youve added me twice, for two chokes each. I actually could use that many…but resisting the urge.

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3 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

 

 

I just measured for these chokes and I don't see any way 2 can fit with all the other components, even with the ATX converter mounted on a wall of the case.  I'm going to pick a couple up anyway so I have options, but just don't see how to make them fit.

That’s unfortunate, since the SQ gains are undeniable now that Rovo has shared his experience. Are you specifically talking about the VN180-10 or the VN300? The latter is likely substantially larger.

 

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To add to Nenon’s post, if you have an i9 9900k based machine or something in the 8th/9th gen range do yourself and add the SOTM SMB Q370 motherboard to your to try list. It sounds really really good, and I strongly feel that it has extracted way more performance from my system than I expected. This is without the additional clock board too.

 

Is it better than the Dual CPU Asus Sage builds? I do not know. Probably not. But I am much less curious now.

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15 minutes ago, RickyV said:

 

Thanks, but I was looking for the measurements from @MarcelNL chokes.

If I convert @lwr measurements of Marcel’s choke it’s 140x100x83mm so much bigger then the Mundorf’s. 

I am also curious. The VN180-10s consume a lot of space in my chassis with the current layout. If they’re significantly larger it will require a complete component re-org to fit them.

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1 hour ago, Johnseye said:

 

Here you go

 

Asus HYPER M.2 X16 GEN 4 CARD Hyper M.2 x16 Gen 4 Card (PCIe 4.0/3.0)

 

Intel 660p Series M.2 2280 2TB PCIe NVMe 3.0 x4 3D2, QLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) SSDPEKNW020T8X1

And if you cannot locate the 660p, the 670p will work as well (this is what I use now).

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1 hour ago, di-fi said:

Can it be any Intel NVMe 2TB , or was 660P recommended (somewhere)? and 670P?

The 660P became a hot topic for music local storage due to its use in the Taiko SGM extreme IIRC. The 670P is what I decided to use because the 660P became a bit more difficult to find at one point, and in some cases ended up costing more than the newer 670P. 

 

I think many NVME's will work with the HyperX card as @baconbrain stated.

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1 hour ago, di-fi said:

I have a problem with Romaz being the audiophile we all know for many years of sharing his subjective experiences (I have various Romaz pages bookmarked) lending his name to QSA Lanedri cables.  He is a leader having many followers. A very inspiring audiophile to follow because of very detailed experiences he shares with the community.

 

Now suddenly he pops up on a commercial WBF page heavily promoting very expensive cables (in the ++ US$ 1000 range) that according to Romaz make a US $200 device sound better than a US$ 30K Extreme (does it sound to good to be true?). Also according to him all those cables sound better than anything else because of a secret cable treatment that Romaz knows together with the owner of QSA. No detailed Romaz style reviews / descriptions and trials this time, a few paragraphs only.

Romaz also seems to have access to all these cables and he can even have his personal cables treated as well at QSA. He also confirmed he designed himself (or was involved in the design of) a few of the new cables. Orders currently seem to come in by the hundreds without listening (30 day trial). Some clients order 5 or 6 cables at the same time adding up to $10k or $20k orders. The new owner, Lanedri, just bought the business in 2021, will he deliver? time will tell.

 

This makes me wonder what exactly is Romaz commercial interest in this? He made it very clear he is sharing his promotional talk in a specific WBF commercial segment paid for by QSA. Confusing for me and apparently also for  @kennyb123&@Blackmorec who he kind of aggressively accused of trying to get to understand this secret cable treatment. Now they, as I was, thought they were having an exchange with the @romaz we all know , but this almost seems an other Romaz (II) strictly talking about the benefits of QSA cables in this commercial segment of WBF and as far as I know not anywhere else where we usually can exchange with Romaz (I). I find this very confusing. It seems to me he used his (well known) name Romaz , maybe unwillingly, to help facilitate the sale of QSA cables. We'll see how this develops, maybe I am wrong but I find it a little awkward. I guess all I am saying;  if someone is wearing two different hats, just be aware. 

 

And sorry if this is slightly off-topic, but my way of  

Thanks @seeteeyou

 

49 minutes ago, MarcelNL said:

 

I have my doubts too...smells of snake oil or it's April closing in pretty fast?

Just thought i'd give my .02 as I have no dog in this fight.

 

@di-fi - I totally get where you're coming from, but I assure you this is the same Romaz we all know. He is just really excited about the impact these cables have had on his system. I currently have two of these cables in my system (the lower tier versions), the QSA Gamma Revelation Power cable and Gamma Revelation XLR. These cables have drastically improved my system beyond any other cables i've owned. I have deliberately not shared those impressions here because it is a bit off topic.

 

To @Dev's point, this is probably not the best place to talk about it unless we eventually have the option to purchase/try QSA treated conductors for DIY cable use or perhaps QSA treated pre-built ATX/EPS cables. Let's cross that bridge when we get there.

 

@seeteeyou - great post. I have often asked myself that same question. But the costs of replicating what Romaz has done, is still a lot of $$ if you think about it. All else equal, I think the SGM Extreme would win in the end. 

 

@MarcelNL - it is definitely not snakeoil although I totally get where you're coming from. I too would probably think that way had I not heard it in my own system.

 

Ok to bring things back on topic:

I built an EPS cable from Angelique 15.5awg wire and its REALLY darn good and highly recommend it:

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4 minutes ago, Nenon said:

Actually, as crazy as it may sound, using their $5K fuse sounds better than bypassing the fuse completely. I've tried this on several different components.

I didn't need to spend $5000 to draw the same conclusion with QSA Yellow fuses FWIW. 

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5 minutes ago, Dev said:

 

Unfortunately, I tried QSA yellow and did not like it at all. I was smitten initially but then over time it felt like things were exaggerated and sounded very unnatural. I have also compared with others, like SR and AM but finally settled in with a combination of AM M1 and SR Purple in different places but never felt QSA had the edge. Maybe a higher priced QSA is a different tell but I don't feel like spending $5k on a fuse that might just blow one day.

I actually did not like QSA yellow in my DC4 as much as my server so I can totally get where you're coming from.

 

When I made the jump from QSA light blue to Light Violet in my DAC, there were zero downsides. The only two places QSA yellow worked for me were:

1. Preamp

2. ULPS

 

On the ULPS I got to hear no fuse vs the QSA yellow and in my setup the yellow was quite a bit better. Although at one point I really started to enjoy the generic "Bojack" fuses from Amazon on the ULPS. I still think they're great for what they cost.

 

Regarding spending $5000 on a fuse, I get that entirely. The jitters are a much better value imho, plus you don't have to worry much about compatibility issues/durability issues.

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19 minutes ago, di-fi said:

Now let’s go back to building (and listening!) to a DIY Music Server. And yes, great if in the near future we have access to even better wires & cables.

 

On this topic, I have tried these: 

 

Note that Amazon is onto us and has bumped the price since the original posting by about $50. 😎

 

I really like this drive for local storage, but if you already have the 670p I wouldn't run to replace it with one of these as they sound very much alike to me. So now I have 2 2TB nvmes, both of which sounds very good.

 

 

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15 hours ago, AngeloVRA said:

Hi @Gavin1977

 

The DC power IN cable connector for the SCLK EX is a Molex  0050375023 with crimp terminals 0008701039

You can use the PCIE output on the Taiko ATX. That is 8 pins, 4 pairs of 12v and Ground. 
 

I power my SCLK-EX with an external 12V PH DR7T. I use the PCIE output of Taiko ATX for the internal SATA power cable for the SNI-1G which is required even when externally powering it. 

 

 

Hope that helps

Angelo

Nicely done! It is evident that you strive for perfection, and achieve it!

 

Not to put you on the spot @AngeloVRA, but we have spoken privately in great depth about your experience with the SOTM SMB Q370 and SCLK-EX, and many other tweakable aspects of implementation. As a result, my backlog of tweaks to try is unsustainable 😅 but, adventurous in a good way. I am posting this to encourage you to share some more thoughts and experiences with this project.

 

1. What setup you had before.

2. How the SOTM board compares.

 

For a number of reasons, i've tried not to present too much excitement over the SMB Q370 because I know for many of us it is difficult to comprehend/execute the purchased of a used CPU to run it. But for those of you with an inclination to try this board I do NOT think you'll regret it. 

 

Some useful points i've learned along the way:

 

1. It is impossible to try the board with and without the SCLK-EX unless you have two boards/cpus side by side. The SCLK-EX install requires some modifications to the board itself if you purchased the board without the SCLK-EX.

 

2. The BIOS on the SMB Q370 is a bit bland compared to what you get with gaming board.

 

3. The SCLK-EX is quite adjustable in and of itself. With firmware you can:

a. Enable outputs

b. Set output frequencies

c. Enable reference clock inputs

d. Enable external power functionality

 

Cheers,

-Rob

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12 hours ago, SK8 said:

Interesting....

How would you describe the differences in sonic performance between the Extreme and the DIY WS621E? What OS and software are you running on the DIY WS621E?

In additional to this - can you share some details about the slabs of wood you’re using for vibration control? 😎

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3 hours ago, Exocer said:

In additional to this - can you share some details about the slabs of wood you’re using for vibration control? 😎

 

3 minutes ago, di-fi said:

I think I recognised two IKEA cutting boards. I cut open an IKEA APTITLIG bamboo plywood after I put each speaker stand on a board and something seemed to sound off. I changed for much heavier Panzerwood with very obvious diffrences. Hope this is helpful.

 

• Density bamboo plywood : 650-850 kg / m3
• IKEA APTITLIG bamboo plywood: 400 kg / m3 (my guess)
• Panzerholz : 1350 - 1400 kg / m3

https://antipodes.support/t/isolation-of-network-equipment/1325/9?u=paulw

I meant in addition*
 

Thanks @di-fi. I am trying to convince @BCRichto order a sheet of Panzerholz with me since we’re both in the tri-state area.

 

Would you say the ikea board is worth skipping in favor of the Panzerholz?

 

I have been eyeing these too:

US $60.45  7％ Off | Rosewood  Solid Wood Amplifier CD Player Tube Preamp DAC Shock Absorber Speaker Isolator Pads Stand Base Bracket Support Rack
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mPqTPF0

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8 minutes ago, Nsxturbo said:

I am using Windows LTSC with Audiophile Optimizer. For playback software(no frills our streaming, just local files)I use Bughead Emperor. I also use Jplay for both Qobuz & local files, but honestly in my system Bughead gets the nod, but is is very utilitarian😆Also files copied to the Zzyx drive sound better than those played from the Intel 660’s via VROC.

The Extreme, even without XDMS is more resolving and lower noise floor, and I would describe it as calmer but with greater dynamics than our facsimiles. With XDMS, it is a whole different level of refinement with an even lower noise floor and then add to that more detail, soundscape depth and width and overall I would call it a beautiful but with lightning quickness and explosive dynamics sound. It truly is State of the Art Digital. Paired with the Horizon, It is no doubt digital endgame playback.(At this moment in time.) Emile and his team at Taiko, I believe will leave no stone unturned in both software and hardware development. I am awaiting my Taiko switch and network card, then down there is a lot more exciting developments.  “I might have to kill another hobbie and get a side hustle just to keep up😂

BTW, our Extreme copies are in no way chopped liver and would best 95% or more commercial offerings!

Thank you. While I do not have a dual cpu rig, I and a few others can confirm that the Hammond 159zj chokes restrict dynamics of the ULPS, increase the noise floor and reduce overall resolution compared to our more recent discoveries:

 

1. Hi-B cut chokes thread: 

2. Mundorf VN180-10 chokes which I am REALLY impressed with in my own build (along with a few others).

 

I do not expect you to entertain the modification of your ULPS at this point, but I’m sure we would all be curious of how much these higher quality inductors/chokes narrow the performance gap in such a resolving system.

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17 minutes ago, JackJohnson316 said:

I’m selling my Sean Jacobs linear power supply DC3/4 with DC4 regulator modules, DC4 recaps, and Mundorf silver gold internal wiring. Two legs both 5v that I used to power my Jcat and Pink Faun pcie cards in my DIY server. It’s a terrific, at the top of the list, LPS for anyone looking to build a DIY server. Thanks 

 

Good luck with the sale!

 

 

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9 hours ago, Nenon said:

I have also suggested to a few people to look at the installation script and try some of those settings. There are equivalent settings for Linux as well. Surprised no one has posted about that yet :).

Yeah I was sort of dredding doing this hence the delay. But I asked ChatGPT to help and this is what it gave me back:

ethtool -A eth0 rx on tx on
ethtool -C eth0 rx-usecs 0 rx-frames 0 rx-usecs-irq 0 rx-frames-irq 0 tx-usecs 0 tx-frames 0 tx-usecs-irq 0 tx-frames-irq 0 adaptive-rx off adaptive-tx off
ethtool -G eth0 rx 1016 tx 504
ethtool -K eth0 gro on gso on tso on lro on rxvlan off txvlan off ntuple off rxhash off
ethtool -L eth0 combined 2
ethtool -s eth0 autoneg off speed 0 duplex half
ethtool -T eth0 off
ethtool -s eth0 wol g
ethtool -s eth0 sopass 0xXXXXXXXXXXXX
ethtool -C eth0 adaptive-tx off
ethtool -s eth0 speed 1000 duplex full autoneg on
ethtool -s eth0 power on
ethtool -s eth0 rx-nsf off
ethtool -s eth0 itr 950
ethtool -s eth0 linkstate 51
ethtool -s eth0 eee 1
ethtool -s eth0 pme off
ethtool -s eth0 rx-fcs off rx-all off tx-cksum-ip-generic off tx-cksum-ipv4 off tx-cksum-ipv6 off tx-cksum-fcoe-crc off tx-nocache-copy off tx-gso-robust off tx-fcoe-segmentation off tx-gre-segmentation off tx-udp_tnl-segmentation off tx-gre-csum-segmentation off tx-udp-segmentation off tx-esp-segmentation off tx-tcp-segmentation off tx-sctp-segmentation off tx-udp-fragmentation off tx-gso-partial off tx-esp-offload off tx-encap off tx-checksum-ipv4-pseudoheader off tx-checksum-fcoe-payload off tx-checksum-sctp off fcoe-mtu 0
ethtool -s eth0 wol-p g
 

Obviously the ideal case for those of us with Euphony would be a single line output, also, worth noting that the eth0 will need to be updated to reflect your own interface.

 

For those on Euphony, here is the Euphony friendly format:

 -A eth0 autoneg on rx on tx on;  -C eth0 rx-usecs 0 rx-usecs-irq 1000 rx-frames 0 tx-usecs 0 tx-frames 0 tx-pace-ns 0;  -K eth0 rx-checksumming off rx-checksum-ipv4 off rx-checksum-ip-generic off tx-checksum-ipv4 off tx-checksum-ip-generic off tx-checksum-sctp off tx-checksum-udp off tx-checksum-tcp off tso off gso off gro off lro off rx-vlan-filter off rx-vlan-stag-filter off txvlan off;  -G eth0 rx 1016 tx 504;  -L eth0 combined 2;  -s eth0 speed 0 duplex 0 autoneg on;  -k eth0 tcp-segmentation-offload off udp-fragmentation-offload off;  -s eth0 wol g;  -s eth0 wol p;  -C eth0 dmac 0;  -s eth0 eee on;  -s eth0 pme off;  -c eth0 rx-frames 950;  -s eth0 lse 51;  -s eth0 mii-rx-flow-control off tx-flow-control off;  -s eth0 power-dream 1;  -s eth0 wol f;

 

Cheers! Happy listening all.

-Rob

 

 

 

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39 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

 

Thanks Rob. Have you noticed a difference from Euphony's default?

 

You’re welcome. My system is in huge flux right now but yes, I find that these settings are proving to result in an overall sound quality improvement. I am using the  default Taiko Startech NIC currently. 
 

Edit: I am trying my Twinax cable again between Etherregen and Server. These settings have made the Twinax sound better than the SFP/Fiber cable duo.

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Here is the Twinax cable I’m using:

 

It has surpassed my Finisar 1321sfp/fiber cable duo. My favorite up until applying the above settings.

 

I will try this next:

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@may.park - As an avid SOTM SMB Q370 owner and DIYer, can you share if there are plans underway to release a newer version of the SMB Q370? It appears to be entirely dismissed by many DIYers as an audiophile motherboard. It was convenient for me to try since I already had the CPUs on-hand, but to those looking to "upgrade" their sound quality, taking a step back to an older architecture can be a tough pill to swallow or simply infeasible for a number of reasons (some prefer not to buy used CPUs for example).

 

1 hour ago, MarcelNL said:

I'm all for a custom MB, if only we can agree what platform and chipset it'll use.

 

I'm all for this too. Maybe we should extend @lmitche's polls. Generally speaking, do we still need to consider two architectures? One for those who like to upsample in realtime, and those who do not upsample but instead use tools like PGGB or stick with native PCM playback?

 

Let's get the convo started.

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On 4/10/2023 at 9:23 AM, Iving said:

Could be partly attrib. to o/s being on Optane Drive.

Yeah I think this has a lot to do with it. Best to keep local files and OS separate for best SQ. At least this is what my tests have confirmed.

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I regret missing my opportunity to own a Taiko chassis, but I am holding out hope for when/if HDplex release a full-size Fanless chassis. Also, I may ultimately stick with two separate chassis long-term. It has served me very well.

 

 

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29 minutes ago, littlej0e said:

Hit me up if you really want a Taiko DIY chassis. I wouldn't mind swapping it out with someone that will actually leverage all the space and design considerations it provides. 

Thanks so much for the offer. Since I will be sticking with the SOTM board/single CPU setup for the long haul I suspect the chassis can go to an even better dual CPU home than mine. Very generous of you!

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4 hours ago, SK8 said:

This is my own build to have Nenon V3 plus Sage 621e in a single box. Slot one is long enough for a full size PCI, reserved for the Taiko DAC card in future.

Hats off to you for such an awesome build. The chassis is a work of art 😎.

 

@Nenon although I have delved head first into VERY impactful usb conditioning this year, I have my eye on the Taiko DAC. 
 

My hope is that it will be Linux compatible. If not, it may end up being what causes me to switch to Windows.

 

 

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27 minutes ago, littlej0e said:

Can anyone confirm the voltage requirements of the Taiko USB and network cards? Seems like both run on 5 volts using 4-pin Molex-to-DC connectors, but wanted to make sure. I'm shopping for external power supplies and want to ensure I get it right. 

I remember @Nenon mentioning it may require 5v and 12v simultaneously.