HOLO Audio MAY DAC

[Schafheide]

Scintilla

I accept that our brain is an extremely major part of our perceived sound differences.

I think that I can hear differences during the burn-in process. But, indeed, it might all be "in my mind". I am happy to be enlightened.

1. Do you still possess a May KTE?

2. Have you employed an impartial person, with a very good ear, to listen and evaluate your May KTE, as it "burns-in" from 0hrs to 500hrs and then 1,000hrs? And then give their opinion as to improvement, or otherwise, in SQ ? This would be an interesting experiment.

Do appreciate that I am not dismissing your thoughts/opinion.

[scintilla]

I do possess an L2 which has been "burning in" since Friday.  The impartial person, with a very good ear, employed to evaluate the L2 as it "burns in" is me.  I know what to listen for in terms of aural cues, soundstaging, imaging and frequency balance and overall resolution.  It is playing now.  It sounds delightful. There is little doubt that the May is a superb dac. But magic fuses, silver wire, willful imagination and a distributor who's a salesman, not an engineer all contribute to a cult of hyperbole that I find rather amusing and somewhat ridiculous. 

[Schafheide]

Sorry, I do not think that you are impartial.  Impartial: "not supporting any of the sides involved in an argument".

ie. I think y'all are nuts.

[Extreme_Boky]

I suppose the comparison between a brand new virgin DAC, and the well run-in DAC, would probably reveal if the burn-in process makes any difference. Holo Audio May dealers should be able to perform this test easily...

 

What I know for sure is that the burn-in in cables makes substantial difference. I have nice silver ribbon interconnects, which I made 3 years ago. A friend of mine liked the sound a lot and asked me to make the same one. So I did; the same silver ribbons, same sleeving, same construction, same silver plated XLR sockets/plugs combo, same 9.5% silver-loaded solder. But... it did not sound anything like the cable I was using for 3 years. It sounded flat, shut-in, no extension. The guy did not believe it was the same cable. I had to pull both apart and show him they were identical in every way, except mine was in use for a long time. This can not be measured, but it was so obvious to anyone, my kids as well - both play acoustic instruments and can pickup slight differences in sound very quickly..

 

 

[scintilla]

You may think anything you like.  I am listening with my ears, not my thoughts.  I report what I hear.  I have heard nothing to indicate any change in sound quality so far in any direction.

 

As an aside, I will note that when I played Kind of Blue, I was struck by the quality of the brush sound on the snare in Blue in Green, a track I have listened to countless times.  The brush sound was palpable.  I know that sound quite well because I have made it myself on my own snare. That was one of the distinctions I have noted so far between May and the other dacs I have owned.  

[Toni-Mang]

In my expirience R2R Dacs and the clocks are changing at least during the first hours, This was easy listenable for the AudioGD Dacs i had before and now also for the MAY. Ristrained highs, soundstage variations...but it might be an illusion in listening time with new gear...and don´t forget the power grid.

[Jean Paul D]

6 hours ago, scintilla said:

You may think anything you like.  I am listening with my ears, not my thoughts.  I report what I hear.  I have heard nothing to indicate any change in sound quality so far in any direction.

 

As an aside, I will note that when I played Kind of Blue, I was struck by the quality of the brush sound on the snare in Blue in Green, a track I have listened to countless times.  The brush sound was palpable.  I know that sound quite well because I have made it myself on my own snare. That was one of the distinctions I have noted so far between May and the other dacs I have owned.  

do you confirm, though, that differences with your Topping D90 are subtle ?

[Quadman]

11 hours ago, ted_b said:

remove the ISoRegen from my USB cable setup

Ted, you didn't mention you had an isoregen in the chain.  I have one and tried to insert it last week.  Firmware 30.12 on my dac and they were unable to see each other so I removed it after rebooting both dac and PC.  The May does not like the IR with 30.12.  Another piece to sell.

[MichaelHiFi]

9 minutes ago, Quadman said:

Ted, you didn't mention you had an isoregen in the chain.  I have one and tried to insert it last week.  Firmware 30.12 on my dac and they were unable to see each other so I removed it after rebooting both dac and PC.  The May does not like the IR with 30.12.  Another piece to sell.

My etherRegen works well at firmware 30.12. FWIW 

 

I've been thinking about trying the Isoregen at some point. Lets see where this goes.

[GoldenOne]

Honestly the may usb is so good, and has galvanic isolation built in anyway, that I've found that many usb cleanup options make no difference to it. (subjectively or objectively) Even though they do make a difference on other dacs. 

[dkdali]

21 hours ago, GoldenOne said:

I have tried a few sources. 

 

Interestingly the may was the first dac where I honestly could not tell the difference between most usb sources. The exception being my pc which was worse. 

 

I still use my sms200 ultra just because why not, might as well use the best source I've got right? But the may usb is phenomenal regardless of source. And I'd be quite happy with just a raspberry pi endpoint. 

 

On other dacs though the differences are more pronounced.

 

Clearly holo's usb implementation in the may is excellent. 

 

I also measured the jitter on it and the close in sidebands were below - 155dB, with wider random jitter all below -170dB. Absolutely crazy performance

Thanks for taking your time to answer - really depreciate it!

I looked at the sms200 ultra and as far as I can find it "only" supports 768KHz/DSD512. Really a shame the Innuos cant be used as a NAA device as it has the same capabilities and has ion reviews been found better performing than the sms200 ultra.... ah well...

In an earlier commend of you mentioned 1536KHz being better than 768KHz. Is that directly from the sms200 ultra, a PC or do you have another NAA device capable of such high frequencies?

[Hiker]

2 hours ago, GoldenOne said:

Honestly the may usb is so good, and has galvanic isolation built in anyway, that I've found that many usb cleanup options make no difference to it. (subjectively or objectively) Even though they do make a difference on other dacs. 

I can hardly wait , the manufacturer of my server also paid close attention to the USB section of the server , I wonder what I’m going to be treated too.

Though my May KTE dac is currently just 70 kilometres away after a 4 day stay in New York City it just got released from customs with a delivery date of May 10th , I hope that date is changed I’m going through a bit of withdraw symptoms,...

[Schafheide]

Extreme_Boky

Re "I suppose the comparison between a brand new virgin DAC, and the well run-in DAC, would probably reveal if the burn-in process makes any difference. Holo Audio May dealers should be able to perform this test easily...".

Perhaps we can assume that Kitsune USA did this? So this is the reason that they recommend 500hrs burn-in?

[scintilla]

Who cares? Circle jerk. Just listen, enjoy and get over yourselves. 

[BrownMagic]

13 hours ago, GoldenOne said:

Honestly the may usb is so good, and has galvanic isolation built in anyway, that I've found that many usb cleanup options make no difference to it. (subjectively or objectively) Even though they do make a difference on other dacs. 

Your video on the DDC was very informative. You are also guilty of making the Pi2AES out of stock! haha. 

Can you tell me if I use Spdif output from my streamer Primare NP5 (it has no usb) the SQ should be the same of a USB based streamer? OR rather do USB based streamers have an advantage over devices which do not have USB?

[Extreme_Boky]

59 minutes ago, Schafheide said:

Extreme_Boky

Re "I suppose the comparison between a brand new virgin DAC, and the well run-in DAC, would probably reveal if the burn-in process makes any difference. Holo Audio May dealers should be able to perform this test easily...".

Perhaps we can assume that Kitsune USA did this? So this is the reason that they recommend 500hrs burn-in?

That is what I heard from Jo @ Wildism Audio HK when I ordered my DAC. He actually mentioned a 500 hours burn-in period more than few times, so it seemed to me that the burn-in was very important. Based on what I saw on their site (high-end modifications and the quality of the components used...) I am almost certain they did a comparison or 2. However, I did not ask Jo this (comparison) question explicitly. 

 

By the way, from the moment I placed the order in Sydney, until the moment DAC arrived at my door, it took 4-5 business days. This an exceptional service. It also felt like I was talking to Jo face-to-face; he was responding to my emails as soon as I was clicking on the "send" button in Outlook. Very pleasant experience.

 

To me personally, MAY sounded very good as soon as I got it. It had almost identical sound character to my 4-decker DDDAC I was using before (NOS, no analogue reconstruction of any kind, just a single 33ohm high quality resistor as I/V). MAY was better mostly because of much better (amazing!) implemented XMOS section and ability to sound great with PCM and DSD, and obviously - much lower distortions. But... my DIY DDDAC (very, very low noise power supply rails; each section having its own, very low noise regulator; low phase-noise oscillators) sounded even more direct, closer to what I'd aspect to hear. But, MAY is a winner overall - an easy win. 

 

I also noticed the hardening of the sound during first month of use. It was noticeable  - I had DDDAC to compare two sounds, so it was not a placebo or my brain getting used to the sound. The change was for worse. I left MAY on for another 2-3 weeks, altering between DSD and PCM, with its analog section loaded with 100 ohm resistor, playing quite loud (-6dB).

 

Exactly 3 months later from the moment I first listened to May, it sounds very nice, but I can not really tell if it sounds better than when I fist got it.... maybe it sounds too polite and a bit softer in the bass region, just a touch too soft for its own good...? This is very difficult to say with certainty. DDDAC is more reviling of the raw performance and it just sounds more right to me, albeit with much worse distortion spectrum.  Still, it is quite good to be able to compare May with a reference that I know is not changing in any way (I hope).

 

Maybe the 500 hour recommendation is to go over that 200-300 hour period when the player just hardens up a bit... at which point many may say:  "this is not good, I expected better, not worse!" .... this is my take anyway.

[Schafheide]

Extreme_Bokey

Yes, I also bought my May KTE from Wildism. Very happy with the efficiency of their chosen carrier - DHL.

I will respond later re your thoughts on the SQ.

[ted_b]

On 5/3/2021 at 2:34 PM, Holzohr said:

Hi Ted, with my Spring 2 DAC I had success with two Asmedia 3142 cards (El Cheapo and JCAT USB XE).

Holzohr,

Thanks!  How do you power the Beyimei? 

[madfonzy]

19 hours ago, Jean Paul D said:

do you confirm, though, that differences with your Topping D90 are subtle ?

I've still got my Topping D90 here.  Differences are not subtle at all.  The May has more clarity and soundstage.  Easier to pick out instrument placements.  I'v barely touch the D90 since I got the May and only kept It for the MQA.  Might get rid of it soon... taking up space.

[Holzohr]

7 hours ago, ted_b said:

Holzohr,

Thanks!  How do you power the Beyimei? 

 

With sata power cables. It seems the Spring 2 and I guess the May need them for the handshake. With my former Matrix Audio X-Sabre Pro I didn't need any power cable.

 

The smaller cable in the pic is for the NUC. I don't remember anymore if it was part of the package. 

 

 

[ted_b]

I anyone else (who is using Holo May with Windows) getting high frequency distortion (fatigue after a couple songs) on 32fs?  In a PM with Leung (Hols) he also reports this.  I realize it could be my mobo USB port but with 30.14 and 16fs that same port delivers nice music.  What I haven't tested (and will tonight) is that mobo USB port and 16fs with both firmwares.  I am also gonna listen via Jussi's NAA image once I get my NUC back from lmitche (due here tmrw night). 

[austinpop]

17 minutes ago, ted_b said:

I anyone else (who is using Holo May with Windows) getting high frequency distortion (fatigue after a couple songs) on 32fs?  In a PM with Leung (Hols) he also reports this.  I realize it could be my mobo USB port but with 30.14 and 16fs that same port delivers nice music.  What I haven't tested (and will tonight) is that mobo USB port and 16fs with both firmwares.  I am also gonna listen via Jussi's NAA image once I get my NUC back from lmitche (due here tmrw night). 

 

Boy, this has turned into quite a slog, eh, Ted? I really hope this gets sorted out, as I'd love to hear your thoughts on the functioning 32FS mode without any annoying glitches.

[mrkoven]

ive been demoing 20bit 32fs pggb into holo may 30.12 firmware. no hf distortion or any issues here. works smoothly and i am very impressed with pggb sound. im using my win10 gaming pc at the moment (9900k + msi z390 godlike), shunyata sigma usb direct to May.. with hqp i was primarily switching between sinc-m/ext2/sinc-l pcm1.536, but i think pggb sound is a step up to my surprise. did not expect this level of improvement. but the issue with pggb is that it is an inconvenience to use alongside streaming. roon will not play these files either. i'm currently piecing together a dedicated server to move away from using my gaming pc. i plan to run euphony on it. hopefully get a hybrid hqpe stream / local pggb combo going. 

[GoldenOne]

1 hour ago, ted_b said:

I anyone else (who is using Holo May with Windows) getting high frequency distortion (fatigue after a couple songs) on 32fs?  In a PM with Leung (Hols) he also reports this.  I realize it could be my mobo USB port but with 30.14 and 16fs that same port delivers nice music.  What I haven't tested (and will tonight) is that mobo USB port and 16fs with both firmwares.  I am also gonna listen via Jussi's NAA image once I get my NUC back from lmitche (due here tmrw night). 

I did but it's cause my pc is amd so it just would not work properly. Even if it did play it didn't sound right. 

 

My Intel laptop worked absolutely fine though. 

 

Im using a streamer now though. But honestly the difference between 16x and 32x is sooo small. Nowhere near as big as 8x to 16x, that I just don't bother. It's a super nice feature to have but I'd prioritise a cleaner/better source/ddc/streamer rather than 32x upsampling. 

 

If you really want 32x though. You can get an Intel compute stick for ~£80 used and use that as an HQP NAA and that'll work

[Quadman]

1 hour ago, ted_b said:

getting high frequency distortion (fatigue after a couple songs) on 32fs?

Are you listening to PCM 1.411/1.532 Mhz?  Why would DSD guy do that?  I don't listen long enough at those rates to get fatigue (what little I do, I do not note the distortion you refer to w intel MB).  The thinness and 2D images do nothing for me so I run back to DSD512, which has body, soul, 3D images, huge walk around stage and so much musical joy.