HOLO Audio MAY DAC

[Schafheide]

On thinking about this, I guess that I must try to remain patient for another 300hrs!! Obviously you have all lived through this! I await in expectation.

[Quadman]

I bought my dac used so did not have to go through the break in period but I find it hard to believe this Dac could ever sound bad.  The music it is making in my room is SOTA.  Thursday I completed my AC line upgrade in which I removed all switches from the AC line.  The on/off switch on the back is now bypassed (fuse is still in circuit), and the two voltage selector switches (110 or 220) on the PSU PCB are now bypassed.  Skeptics will doubt this, but this change made a very nice uptick to the sound quality.  I put it only slightly behind the Capacitor upgrade I made on my previously L2 dac.  KTE owners may want to consider doing this mod as you will be very pleasantly surprised by the SQ improvement.  So I now have a dac that has a feature the KTE's do not AC switch bypass.  All I am missing is EMI/RFI cover for R2R boards and I'm working on that.

 

What first caught my ear and full attention after the mod was percussion and the utter transparency of it, with full body and presence.  It was very good before but this was another level.  Percussion to the sides be it finger snaps, stick hitting wood etc it was just more there.  Lead center imagine weather vocal or instrumentalist also gained in transparency, weight and presence.  Overall the music was more involving and engaging, back to what Herb Reichert said "The May recovers the natural pressure behind the musical flow" but now add to that greater transparency, presence and body.  Mesmerizing, my listening sessions regularly run 7+ hours now, zero fatigue and great reluctance to turn the system off despite the very late mourning hours (3-4am).  Music has never been this engaging in my room and that includes my SME 30 TT with dynavector XVs1 cartridge.  I listen at DSD512, PCM 1.5 while dynamic and transparent (not sure it is more transparent than 512) is 2D and thin, and lacks soul.  DSD256 EC7 shrinks this marvelous (512) soundstage, it's like you vacuum packed the 512 stage and now DSD256 EC7)  My CPU with no cuda struggles with 1024 DSD but what little I hear, oh my.  12th gen intel, can't wait. I use a i7-10700K CPU

 

on/off bypass, remove jumpers connect L to top of fuse, N to top of IEC

 

voltage select switch bypass.  There is no easy way to remove these switches with my equipment.  So I soldered 10mm bypass wires.

 

Do not attempt this unless you know what you are doing.  I am not responsible if you make a mistake.  Truly I was very surprised by this SQ improvement.  I wasn't expecting as much when I did it.  Well worth it.

[Toni-Mang]

cool! there is nothing left to a chance, beside the transformer plugs....i really like this action. well done and comprehensable👍. 

 

[Quadman]

44 minutes ago, Toni-Mang said:

beside the transformer plugs.

I was going to remove those metal transformer bolts, but with a 6MM allen, I think, they are really on there, they probably used an aggressive loc-tite on them.  I applied some decent force and they would not budge, so I left them on.

[barrows]

13 minutes ago, Quadman said:

I was going to remove those metal transformer bolts, but with a 6MM allen, I think, they are really on there, they probably used an aggressive loc-tite on them.  I applied some decent force and they would not budge, so I left them on.

If they are secured with loctite, applying a little heat will loosen them up.  This can be easily done with a soldering iron.

[ted_b]

Well, after some listening to my Spring KTE I moved over to the May.

 

The good news:  with listening through the Singxer SU-1 USB-to-I2S (limited to 8fs)  the May's noise floor is considerably lower than the Spring KTE, making for easier, smoother musicality.  A no brainer.  However, as noted the SU-1 is limited to 8fs on my machine (unless I'm missing something).  I haven't listened much through this method cuz I then went on to....

 

The bad news:  I haven't been able to get my Windows 10 machine to see the May USB yet.  My Spring KTE had the most recent USB XMOS2 upgrade and I've been using, when listening straight to USB, the Holo v5.0.0 driver successfully.  Not with the May! ?  I even uninstalled, rebooted, reinstalled, rebooted.  Nothing.  My USB card is the Startech 4 port card (Asmedia 1142), powered by a JS-2, and although it might be a stumbling block for 32fs (don't know, anybody?) I just want it to shake hands with the May.  It's display shows 48k (so it sees the USB cable) but HQPlayer starts up with no device.  Any help is appreciated. 

[Quadman]

51 minutes ago, ted_b said:

My USB card is the Startech 4 port card (Asmedia 1142), powered by a JS-2, and although it might be a stumbling block for 32fs (don't know, anybody?) I just want it to shake hands with the May. 

Ted,  I seem to remember you saying your dac was a demo unit.  My guess is you have firmware 30.12 on it.  The Holo asio control panel will show you what firmware is on machine.  30.12 allows DSD1024 and PCM 1.4/1.5, But it has issues with non-intel USB ports.  So either move to regular USB port or flash firmware back to 30.14 and you should be good.  You loose 1024 and PCM 1.4/1.5 doing so.

[ted_b]

Well, since the Holo is not being seen, the Holo ASIO control panel (Holousbaudiocplapp.exe ) shows no devices.  I'm in a conundrum.  And I currently have no monitor (will set one up tmrw morn) as I only communicate to my server via TightVNC, which only works once the OS is up.  So I also can't get into the bios and turn on my mobo USB ports (we turned those off long ago) so no firmware updates until Windows 10 sees the dac.  I'll report back when I'm able...thx

[ted_b]

I shortcutted my issues by connecting to my nearby Win 7 desktop and ran the firmware upgrade to 30.14 for now, plugged back into my server and voila!  I have 16fs playback.  Will report back soon.  Thanks, Quadman, for the directive.

Edit: What a mess.  All music now sounds horrible, with pops and clicks constantly.  Yet since Windows sees the Holo (abeit poorly) I thought I'd immediately go back to 30.12 and revert back to the Singxer, starting over, but alas the firmware change to 30.12 didn't take (likley cuz it was plugged into problem USB card) so I rebooted and tried again...this time Windows doesn't see it.  I'm going to bed.

[dkdali]

Sorry for taking up a topic from another forum (hope it is ok!?). Its May dac related 😉

@GoldenOne and others. With your experience with the May dac, HQP and ROON I would like to ask a question:

Have you tried the May dac with a high quality dedicated ROON streamer (like a Innuos Zenith) and compared it to a PC or NAA device streaming HQP?

I have a Innuos Zenith Mk.3 and it was a significant improvement over my PC for ROON (sound quality and convenience)(and it fits nicely in to a HiFi rack 😉). I have been wondering if the sound improvement from the Zenith would compare with the improvements with HQP. My dream scenario would be that the Zenith could be a NAA device but I haven't found any information about that option.

It is not easy for me to make the comparison at the moment due to not having a PC anywhere near my May so any relevant experience would be greatly appreciated.

 

[ted_b]

Update: 

Note:  I have not gone into my Win 10 server's bios and turned on the mobo USB ports, so I am working with only my Asmedia 1142 USB card and my Singxer Su-1 I2S options.

USB card:  not identified when May is at 30.12 firmware.  When I update to 30.14 all music (PCM or DSD, whether Roon-served-to-HQP from another computer, or files drag-n-dropped locally into HQPlayer) has a popcorn machine running along side the music...i.e unlistenable.

SU-1 (into I2S 1 input):  sounds glorious, albeit 8fs only, from any or all sources, in any firmware.

 

So all I've been able to do so far is to reach a simple conclusion that the Holo May KTE, at 8fs, has a decidedly lower noise floor and smoother presentation than my Holo Spring KTE, also at 8fs.  I will compare DSD256 ASDM7EC presentations shortly......but this simple conclusion is nowhere near the entire reason I asked to demo the May.  I want to hear it output 16fs and 32fs, and so far no go. 

[GoldenOne]

7 minutes ago, ted_b said:

Update: 

Note:  I have not gone into my Win 10 server's bios and turned on the mobo USB ports, so I am working with only my Asmedia 1142 USB card and my Singxer Su-1 I2S options.

USB card:  not identified when May is at 30.12 firmware.  When I update to 30.14 all music (PCM or DSD, whether Roon-served-to-HQP from another computer, or files drag-n-dropped locally into HQPlayer) has a popcorn machine running along side the music...i.e unlistenable.

SU-1 (into I2S 1 input):  sounds glorious, albeit 8fs only, from any or all sources, in any firmware.

 

So all I've been able to do so far is to reach a simple conclusion that the Holo May KTE, at 8fs, has a decidedly lower noise floor and smoother presentation than my Holo Spring KTE, also at 8fs.  I will compare DSD256 ASDM7EC presentations shortly......but this simple conclusion is nowhere near the entire reason I asked to demo the May.  I want to hear it output 16fs and 32fs, and so far no go. 

Have you tried another source device or streamer? Would strongly recommend trying the mobo usb ports as that could likely be the issue. 

16x should work fine if on the 30.14 firmware. 30.12 is tricky with non-intel hardware (Amd pcs and third party usb cards etc) 

 

But would recommend trying the mobo ports regardless. 

 

7 hours ago, dkdali said:

Sorry for taking up a topic from another forum (hope it is ok!?). Its May dac related 😉

@GoldenOne and others. With your experience with the May dac, HQP and ROON I would like to ask a question:

Have you tried the May dac with a high quality dedicated ROON streamer (like a Innuos Zenith) and compared it to a PC or NAA device streaming HQP?

I have a Innuos Zenith Mk.3 and it was a significant improvement over my PC for ROON (sound quality and convenience)(and it fits nicely in to a HiFi rack 😉). I have been wondering if the sound improvement from the Zenith would compare with the improvements with HQP. My dream scenario would be that the Zenith could be a NAA device but I haven't found any information about that option.

It is not easy for me to make the comparison at the moment due to not having a PC anywhere near my May so any relevant experience would be greatly appreciated.

 

I have tried a few sources. 

 

Interestingly the may was the first dac where I honestly could not tell the difference between most usb sources. The exception being my pc which was worse. 

 

I still use my sms200 ultra just because why not, might as well use the best source I've got right? But the may usb is phenomenal regardless of source. And I'd be quite happy with just a raspberry pi endpoint. 

 

On other dacs though the differences are more pronounced.

 

Clearly holo's usb implementation in the may is excellent. 

 

I also measured the jitter on it and the close in sidebands were below - 155dB, with wider random jitter all below -170dB. Absolutely crazy performance

[mrkoven]

I've been using hqp 1.536mhz ext2 via usb from my 9900K windows pc on 30.12 firmware. it is working great. ive gone back and forth with dsd256 7ec but i think pcm sounds better. dsd is a bit smoother but doesnt sound as dynamic. im gathering parts now for a dedicated server. plan to run euphony with hqpe. i want to try an aftermarket usb or i2s pci-e card but not sure if any works with 1.536mhz, so may stick with motherboard output.

[ted_b]

Do we have a list of 3rd parties that allow 32fs with 30.12?  I assumed the affected cards would play ok, just not 32fs but now realize it's all or nothing (i.e my Startech Asmedia 1142 card sounds great with my Spring, powered by a JS-2 rail, but is a doorstop if using May and 30.12).

[Holzohr]

3 minutes ago, ted_b said:

Do we have a list of 3rd parties that allow 32fs with 30.12?  I assumed the affected cards would play ok, just not 32fs but now realize it's all or nothing (i.e my Startech Asmedia 1142 card sounds great with my Spring, powered by a JS-2 rail, but is a doorstop if using May and 30.12).

 

Hi Ted, with my Spring 2 DAC I had success with two Asmedia 3142 cards (El Cheapo and JCAT USB XE).

 

[ted_b]

Now running with mobo (Intel) USB and 30.12.  32fs works but the music continues to be unlistenable at all sample rates (popcorn sounds, as if driver is being overdriven).  Haven't tried 30.14 but expect no changes cuz 30.14 with USB card sounds same popcorn.   Summary: all music through the May USB is unlistenable, all music through I2S is good but limited to 8fs.

 

Edit:  Rechecked that all USB connections (mobo or Startech Asmedia card) into my Spring sound great at all sample rates, maxing out at 8fs, of course.  This eliminates cabling, etc. and puts my concern squarely on the USB transceiver in the May.  Does it have a setting I forgot?

[The Computer Audiophile]

10 minutes ago, ted_b said:

Now running with mobo (Intel) USB and 30.12.  32fs works but the music continues to be unlistenable at all sample rates (popcorn sounds, as if driver is being overdriven).  Haven't tried 30.14 but expect no changes cuz 30.14 with USB card sounds same popcorn.   Summary: all music through the May USB is unlistenable, all music through I2S is good but limited to 8fs.

 

I'd try Jussi's Intel NAA image running from a USB stick to test it. I had issues with Windows on one machine. Booted up with NAA on USB, worked flawlessly at 32fs. 

[ted_b]

Just now, The Computer Audiophile said:

 

I'd try Jussi's Intel NAA image running from a USB stick to test it. I had issues with Windows on one machine. Booted up with NAA on USB, worked flawlessly at 32fs. 

Chris,. I have no NAA hardware at the moment.  My NUC is back with Larry being updated and made into a Roon core with NVME onboard music storage and Apacer RAM. 

[MichaelHiFi]

I've been enjoying the May now, especially since I've got my server running well with HQP and Roon. I would say the only issue in SQ has been the bass region which in truth, has been a problem in my room. No I don't have bass traps. But I'm moving and will deal with any room anomalies later. I actually use a pair of GR-Research monitors to sit atop my bass bins. 

 

My setup consists of the Music server that feeds the May directly from its MB USB port and uses HQP. Yesterday I decided to reinstate my uRendu. This is fed from an EtherRegen. I expected maybe a small change but didn't know if there would be a boost in SQ or a loss. I wasn't prepared for what I experienced however.

 

What happened to the bass? I kept turning the volume up and yes there is bass and in a good way, no more boominess (for lack of better descriptor). That is a welcome relief, sort of. I removed the GR monitors and returned the native Usher Dancers and now I was listening to me Ushers the way they used to sound, brilliant. I even added the SVS Ultra to the mix. I'm not getting the 3D effect, that is, there isn't as much push into the room that I was enjoying. Especially, using the settings Quadman had suggested, DSD 512, he was on to something.

 

I ordered an HDplex 300watt LPS early March. I still don't have a working unit. But I have to wonder now what changes the LPS could have feeding the May directly vs via uRendu? What would the UltraRendu bring to the table? What about the inTona or Singxer and a $$$ USB cable? I need to finish this build. There are so many ways in this forum to feed a DAC like the May but since I own the May, I'm looking for the best May Way. I'm running a fiber cable and a Cat8 cable from where my Modem and Router will sit in the middle of the house basement level, maybe ~60ft from my DAC and server. I'm sort of heading towards the Sonore optic solution but could be swayed. 

 

I still wonder what path gives me the truth to the music? It's mind boggling the difference between direct feed USB and uRendu. Curios if any other had experienced such a radical difference?

 

 

 

[ted_b]

I decided to keep Tim (US distributor) in the loop on my May troubles, and he recommended I try one thing: remove the ISoRegen from my USB cable setup (Lush2 to ISORegen powered by LPS1.0 to USB adapter), a setup that the Holo Spring loved.  Well.....Tim is da man!  Sure enough, simply removing it and leaving the Lush 2 (and it's JSSG jacket) to fend on its own.....voila!  The USB input is now clean, free of all traces of popped kernels (and those pesky unpopped ones).  Both 30.12 (via mobo USB) and 30.14 (via Startech USB card) play flawlessly.  Thanks Tim!  Weird anomaly, and something to ponder....let alone now investigate replacing the ISORegen's isolation capability.  But...for now, I'm happy to be listening to a beautiful black background and a fresh dose of color and texture.

 

My first question will be this:  will the lowly motherboard USB port, capable of lifting music to 32fs, outduel the JS-2 powered Asmedia 1142 card, since it has one hand tied behind its back and able only to do 16fs (boy, are these first world problems 🙂).  At very first blush, it would seem that the 1142 card is in for a huge fight, and maybe I need to go find one that will also produce 32fs and the ability to be separately powered...cuz the mobo USB is playing Bill Frisell with soooo much color and timbre it is not funny...so why am I smiling and laughing.  😎  Stay tuned.

[scintilla]

I think y'all are nuts.  Break-in is real: you need to adapt; it isn't the device, it's your ears and head (which you are all up in).  My May sounded great when I plugged it in.  At chez sparky there's no intolerable break-in periods because I understand that I need to get used to a new device and disengage analytical thought.  Drink more alcohol my friends and stop being so dramatic.  The difference between the May and the D90 is subtle, at best. Is there a difference? Yes. Is it enough to write 600 words about? No, unless you write for a journal and get paid by the word. Tailored suit vs. rack.  Move along, nothing to see here...

 

I've seen Bill Frisell in so many weird settings and so many times.  The best was when I lived on Bainbridge Island (and he did too) and he played the local performance center/civic theatre with Robin Holcome and husband Danny Barnes (2001).  That was pretty epic.  I used to see him at the grocery store called the T/C. Sometime later, he played a show at a bar in Tacoma called Panamonica's with Viktor Krauss, Matt Chamberlain and Jenny Scheinman.  Had a great chat with Viktor between sets, and Matt told me he didn't know any of the setlist, he was just playing from instinct. It was unreal. Finally, at a show at the Tractor Tavern during Brotherhood of the Drum, at a show where Matt Chamberlain was playing with his side-project, Truster! (ca. 2005), I almost knocked Bill's drink from his hand as I spun around in the crowd.  I apologized of course and he was gracious, as is his thing.  There are other stories from Jazz Alley, but why tell all in one post... Bill is my favorite musician. I can with the authority of personal experience tell you, he is one of the greatest living players left. He is also a very sweet, very shy man, who wore engineer overalls on the ferry.

[BrownMagic]

I am a believer in break in but I couldn't help chuckle when I read some gents talking about 1000 hour break in. For people listening to two hours of music a day, that is 15 months of break in. Lol. 

[Schafheide]

BrownMagic

Actually, if you leave it running 24/7, it will take approx 41 days to reach 1,000 hrs. I would say that is not much effort.

[BrownMagic]

13 minutes ago, Schafheide said:

Actually, if you leave it running 24/7

Yes which is what you do with R2R. 10 days of leaving it on is all even the manufacturer recommends at least for Denafrips which is what I use. However for capacitors to break in you need to play music is what im told. Anyways, different views on this topic. I just let music play. If I dont like the way something sounds after 200 hours, good chance, I will not like it.

[Schafheide]

Actually Kitsune (which is what this topic is all about) recommend at least 500 hrs. But if, indeed, you are a believer in burn-in, why complain about 1 month in the life of your investment in this DAC?