HOLO Audio MAY DAC

[MichaelHiFi]

Start burning her in Hiker :)

[MichaelHiFi]

3 hours ago, sledwards said:

Thanks sledwards.

 

I don't have an "auto" option. Never had as far as I remember. The rate limit looks foreign to me as well. 

 

I continue to feel like I'm massively missing something.

[Quadman]

25 minutes ago, MichaelHiFi said:

The rate limit looks foreign to me as well. 

He's not using desktop HQP where as you are.  The settings are the same on desktop and bit rate is higher up closer to output in HQP settings.  For 1024 I would try 16-20 bits no more, auto may adjust down to that not sure.

[sledwards]

Equivalent setting for desktop. Currently I am running 21-bits, but I am not sure it matters for DSD upsampling.

 

 

[MichaelHiFi]

I got sound at DSD1024 using the settings above. But it was a high pitched whine with music barely audible in the background. 

 

Probably exceeding the uRendu maximum bit rate. Yep, confirmed, uRendu limit is 512.

[ted_b]

A few updated comments on my listening/testing with Tim's demo Holo May:

*  as per Quadman (thanks @Quadman ) I lowered HQP Windows 10 dac bit setting from 20 bits (hf hash) to 18 bits and 32fs sounds much much better, but at 18 bits and simple mobo USB port I am comparing it to 16fs at 20 bits with my Startech externally powered USB card.....and it's too close to call, but I think I prefer the 16fs and better USB port.

*  After updating HQP to 4.10.3 (I love 4.9 but it has NAA issues) and booting up Jussi's NAA image on my NUC I am now listening to 32fs at 20 bits and all is well.  Best of both worlds.

 

I'm not sure what I will do long term as my NUC was updated by Larry (thanks @lmitche) to be my Roon server (updated AL, new NVME 4 TB Sabrent SSD, SSD heatsink and anti-RF/EMI material, new 8GB Apacer RAM), so I will either look to Startech's unreleased Asmedia 3142 card and stay direct Windows output, or buy something to be my 32fs-capable NAA.

 

Net/net, I'm now able to finally sit back and listen to both 32fs and DSD256 (higher when non-EC) without having to do any pyrotechnics.  😎

[MrDerrick]

Hello,

 

I am enjoying the KTE May immensely, currently at 768/20 via HQPlayer in NOS mode and PLL off.

I read through all the posts on the KTE May and decided it was time to attempt 1.5mhz.

 

USB Holo Contol Panel is v5.0.0

v30.12 is installed

 

The May display shows locked on 1.4/1.5 mhz files, but what is playing is unlistenable.

My renderer is a Sonore SignatureRendu SE coupled with a SGC STi9 optical connected straight via usb to the May.

 

Reading through the "Taking the Terminator to 11" article I saw that Chris C had no problem with the SigRendu SE and 1.5mhz to the Terminator.

 

Currently I am dead in the water with 1.4/1.5 mhz 20 bit files.

I switched back and forth between 30.12 and 30.14, the ASIO buffer was set to 512, I tried 1024 and 2048 with no improvement.

I also tried setting the usb format to 16 bits, also no help.

 

I am running HQPlayer embedded on the STi9 version 4.22.3 .

 

768/20 bit does sound very good, if all else fails, I can live with it!

 

Any thoughts?

 

Robert

 

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

3 minutes ago, MrDerrick said:

Hello,

 

I am enjoying the KTE May immensely, currently at 768/20 via HQPlayer in NOS mode and PLL off.

I read through all the posts on the KTE May and decided it was time to attempt 1.5mhz.

 

USB Holo Contol Panel is v5.0.0

v30.12 is installed

 

The May display shows locked on 1.4/1.5 mhz files, but what is playing is unlistenable.

My renderer is a Sonore SignatureRendu SE coupled with a SGC STi9 optical connected straight via usb to the May.

 

Reading through the "Taking the Terminator to 11" article I saw that Chris C had no problem with the SigRendu SE and 1.5mhz to the Terminator.

 

Currently I am dead in the water with 1.4/1.5 mhz 20 bit files.

I switched back and forth between 30.12 and 30.14, the ASIO buffer was set to 512, I tried 1024 and 2048 with no improvement.

I also tried setting the usb format to 16 bits, also no help.

 

I am running HQPlayer embedded on the STi9 version 4.22.3 .

 

768/20 bit does sound very good, if all else fails, I can live with it!

 

Any thoughts?

 

Robert

 

 

Turn off the May, pull the USB cable from the May, plug in the USB cable to the May, power the May on. 

[Hiker]

25 minutes ago, MrDerrick said:

Hello,

 

I am enjoying the KTE May immensely, currently at 768/20 via HQPlayer in NOS mode and PLL off.

I read through all the posts on the KTE May and decided it was time to attempt 1.5mhz.

 

USB Holo Contol Panel is v5.0.0

v30.12 is installed

 

The May display shows locked on 1.4/1.5 mhz files, but what is playing is unlistenable.

My renderer is a Sonore SignatureRendu SE coupled with a SGC STi9 optical connected straight via usb to the May.

 

Reading through the "Taking the Terminator to 11" article I saw that Chris C had no problem with the SigRendu SE and 1.5mhz to the Terminator.

 

Currently I am dead in the water with 1.4/1.5 mhz 20 bit files.

I switched back and forth between 30.12 and 30.14, the ASIO buffer was set to 512, I tried 1024 and 2048 with no improvement.

I also tried setting the usb format to 16 bits, also no help.

 

I am running HQPlayer embedded on the STi9 version 4.22.3 .

 

768/20 bit does sound very good, if all else fails, I can live with it!

 

Any thoughts?

 

Robert

 

 

Robert I’ve had my May KTE dac just for a few days and I’m also enjoying it immensely ! 

[Jean Paul D]

2 hours ago, ted_b said:

A few updated comments on my listening/testing with Tim's demo Holo May:

*  as per Quadman (thanks @Quadman ) I lowered HQP Windows 10 dac bit setting from 20 bits (hf hash) to 18 bits and 32fs sounds much much better, but at 18 bits and simple mobo USB port I am comparing it to 16fs at 20 bits with my Startech externally powered USB card.....and it's too close to call, but I think I prefer the 16fs and better USB port.

*  After updating HQP to 4.10.3 (I love 4.9 but it has NAA issues) and booting up Jussi's NAA image on my NUC I am now listening to 32fs at 20 bits and all is well.  Best of both worlds.

 

I'm not sure what I will do long term as my NUC was updated by Larry (thanks @lmitche) to be my Roon server (updated AL, new NVME 4 TB Sabrent SSD, SSD heatsink and anti-RF/EMI material, new 8GB Apacer RAM), so I will either look to Startech's unreleased Asmedia 3142 card and stay direct Windows output, or buy something to be my 32fs-capable NAA.

 

Net/net, I'm now able to finally sit back and listen to both 32fs and DSD256 (higher when non-EC) without having to do any pyrotechnics.  😎

hOW much better is the MAY vs your Spring and in which way?

[GoldenOne]

1 hour ago, MrDerrick said:

Hello,

 

I am enjoying the KTE May immensely, currently at 768/20 via HQPlayer in NOS mode and PLL off.

I read through all the posts on the KTE May and decided it was time to attempt 1.5mhz.

 

USB Holo Contol Panel is v5.0.0

v30.12 is installed

 

The May display shows locked on 1.4/1.5 mhz files, but what is playing is unlistenable.

My renderer is a Sonore SignatureRendu SE coupled with a SGC STi9 optical connected straight via usb to the May.

 

Reading through the "Taking the Terminator to 11" article I saw that Chris C had no problem with the SigRendu SE and 1.5mhz to the Terminator.

 

Currently I am dead in the water with 1.4/1.5 mhz 20 bit files.

I switched back and forth between 30.12 and 30.14, the ASIO buffer was set to 512, I tried 1024 and 2048 with no improvement.

I also tried setting the usb format to 16 bits, also no help.

 

I am running HQPlayer embedded on the STi9 version 4.22.3 .

 

768/20 bit does sound very good, if all else fails, I can live with it!

 

Any thoughts?

 

Robert

 

 

It's been discussed at length in the HQP thread (and in here too I think) but basically. If you want 1.5mhz, you need an intel chipset.

There are some streamers and third party USB 'hifi' cards that may or may not work. But it is inconsistent at best.

If you have an intel PC, then you can just play and go.
But any AMD machine, PCIe hifi card, raspberry pi, sonore, sotm sms200, anything not intel, it might not work at all. It might play but at the wrong speed, it might play but be really glitchy and awful, and I even had it once where it "worked" but it just sounded thin and weird.
I've even got two otherwise identical raspberry pis, same USB controller, software and everything, but one sometimes works sometimes doesn't, and the other never works.

Unfortunately the simple answer is that if you want 1.5mhz you'll need to get something intel. The cheapest/smallest device would be an intel compute stick. Can just put NAA on that and use it as your streamer and you're good to go.
Could also look at a NUC to run as both a roon server and 1.5mhz NAA.

OR: Stick to 768khz. There really is almost no perceivable difference between 768khz and 1.5mhz

I've got the may and a denafrips ares 2 here atm. May will play 1.5mhz from the various devices I have but won't sound correct unless it's an intel machine.
Ares 2 will sometimes do the same thing but most of the time just straight up won't play 1.5mhz at all.

Additionally: Would 100% recommend turning the PLL on. There's no reason not to have it on really and you're just potentially missing out on extra performance

[MrDerrick]

Thanks for the suggestion Chris, but no go.

 

GoldenOne, the devil is always in the details and I missed the intel chipset requirement, thanks for the clarification.

I will try PLL on again, I thought there was a slight edge with it off though.

Unrelated to my original post, what does the "Wildism Edition" expand on, I assume that it is some kind of mod that they perform?

 

I will have to look into the intel compute stick, hopefully the learning curve will not cause my head to explode.

 

Happy listening everyone!

 

Robert

[ted_b]

1 hour ago, Jean Paul D said:

hOW much better is the MAY vs your Spring and in which way?

Jean Paul,

I have been doing so much back and forth with firmwares, USB ports and HQP settings that I am only now settling in for some serious listening sessions.  So...with that said, I have yet to explore the dac as much as I should.  However, the most evident difference/benefit of the May over my Spring (both KTEs) is the significantly reduced noise floor.  It's funny, and others have commented, but one doesn't notice something like that until it's gone.  I never once thought my Spring was "noisy" but the lack of grain or surface noise is quite obvious upon any first serious listen.  Music comes out of a much blacker background, and that benefits all aspects of the presentation,. I believe.  I gotta assume the major contributor is the separate dedicated power supply unit, but it could also be a combination of other things both digital and analog.  Being built as dual mono has got to help, along with perceived soundstaging improvements, but I'll get to that later. 

[GoldenOne]

1 hour ago, MrDerrick said:

Thanks for the suggestion Chris, but no go.

 

GoldenOne, the devil is always in the details and I missed the intel chipset requirement, thanks for the clarification.

I will try PLL on again, I thought there was a slight edge with it off though.

Unrelated to my original post, what does the "Wildism Edition" expand on, I assume that it is some kind of mod that they perform?

 

I will have to look into the intel compute stick, hopefully the learning curve will not cause my head to explode.

 

Happy listening everyone!

 

Robert

The compute stick is basically a regular Windows pc but in the size of a large USB stick. It's a neat little device. 

 

So you'd just open up windows, install hqplayer naa and then connect the dac to it and you're good to go. 

 

Wildism is the Asia distributor for holo. (Kitsune being the US distributor). Just means I got it from them. 

 

Im not sure what the mods they do on the may are atm but the spring 2 they had the normal lvl 1/2/3 and what was effectively level 4 called 'wild edition extreme". Kitsune does kitsune tuned edition. Wildism does the wild extreme edition. 

 

1.100va Pure Silver Transformer

2.Jensen Ceramic Tube Copper Foil Oil Cap

3.Xsymphony Pure Silver Litz Wire

-Double Run IEC to AC board

-Single Run AC board to Main Board

4.take out all plastic plugs

5.Audionote Kaisei Bipolar Cap 

  10000uf 25v x2 

6. Ground Filter

7.Audionote Kaisei Bipolar Cap  

  2200uf 16v x4 

8.Audionote Kaisei Bipolar Cap 

  10uf 16v x4

9.Audionote Kaisei Bipolar Cap 

  5uf 16v x4

10.Audionote Trans-280 Digital Isolation Transformer

 

 

Basically anything that could be done to the max they did. 

I don't know if they have this one for the may or not yet. At the time I ordered my may audionote was having supply issues so I just got the highest that was available as I didn't really want to wait potentially several months. Plus he said I can just send it back in to upgrade later if I wanted to anyway. Sounds amazing and I also get the same or better measurements than the measurements others have done on the kte model so I'm a very happy buyer :) 

 

 

[barrows]

1 hour ago, ted_b said:

Jean Paul,

I have been doing so much back and forth with firmwares, USB ports and HQP settings that I am only now settling in for some serious listening sessions.  So...with that said, I have yet to explore the dac as much as I should.  However, the most evident difference/benefit of the May over my Spring (both KTEs) is the significantly reduced noise floor.  It's funny, and others have commented, but one doesn't notice something like that until it's gone.  I never once thought my Spring was "noisy" but the lack of grain or surface noise is quite obvious upon any first serious listen.  Music comes out of a much blacker background, and that benefits all aspects of the presentation,. I believe.  I gotta assume the major contributor is the separate dedicated power supply unit, but it could also be a combination of other things both digital and analog.  Being built as dual mono has got to help, along with perceived soundstaging improvements, but I'll get to that later. 

Ted, I am looking forward to more SQ observations from you.  Specifically, I would like to know if you are hearing both more soundstage depth, and better layering of that depth (if so, vs. Spring of course).  IOW, more different levels of depth...  also, are you avoiding stacking the May DAC directly on top of the power supply?  I would definitely separate them if so, as the filed strength of most transformers is going to be enough in the vertical to potentially create interference with the DAC via magnetic coupling in the vertical plane.  

[MichaelHiFi]

Your ultraRendu is your limiting device.

 

• Supports the following PCM sample rates up to: 44.1kHz, 48kHz, 88.2kHz, 96kHz, 176.4kHz, 192kHz, 352.8kHz, 384kHz, 705.6kHz, and 768kHz

I have the uRendu and am limited as well but was able to utilize 1.536 USB direct from server.

 

Happy listening!

[MichaelHiFi]

Love the May DAC. Steep learning curve with HQPlayer but I'm understanding that I've had underlying problems from the get go.

 

I always have to remind myself "this is a hobby"

Always have a backup plan when computer audio fails (and it will) because it's music that soothes my soul.

When your hobby involves highly complex setups, expect complex failures.

Hug your turntable before you turn out the lights.

Buy a transport if you wish full glory with the May.

 

I visited my home which is being built with an audio room. The insulation was finished and or course, it wasn't the rock wool I specified. I ran CAT8, CAT6 UTP and OM1 fiber to the utility room because why wouldn't I?

 

I got home to play some music from my troublesome, extremely slow (I mean sloooowwwww) i10900 SOTA server. No output to monitor and a white LED that suggest the VGA is cooked.

 

So no computer audio.

 

My once brilliant BMC S1 amplifier finally was fixed after 3 years of sitting idle. Over 6 thousand miles of transport. Over 100Ibs of German engineering. Plugged it in, music played, turned it up, music no longer played. End of story.

 

I'm thinking of taking up horseback riding...

 

 

 

[ted_b]

1 hour ago, barrows said:

also, are you avoiding stacking the May DAC directly on top of the power supply?  

Thx for the support; yes I'll check on soundstaging and depth (but I'm hampered short term by listening only via the RAALs, which are incredibly accurate but don't display depth like my Aerials will). 

 

I have the power supply on the shelf below the main unit.

Ted

[BrownMagic]

Questions to May and Spring users, is it safe to assume that there should not be any difference in SQ if you use either Coax or the USB input of the May/Spring? Or is one input superior to the other?

[GoldenOne]

23 minutes ago, BrownMagic said:

Questions to May and Spring users, is it safe to assume that there should not be any difference in SQ if you use either Coax or the USB input of the May/Spring? Or is one input superior to the other?

On the spring 2 there will be a difference as there is no PLL.
The USB on spring 2 is good but many have reported that using a good I2S or SPDIF digital source yields an improvement.

On the may though, with PLL on anyway, no they should all sound the same and whilst i've THOUGHT I heard a difference now and then, I wasn't able to pick it out as soon as I blind tested.

Copypasting my post from head-fi in response to someone asking about trying various sources on the may:
 

I have yes. Both objectively and subjectively.

 

Subjectively, I find that with the PLL off, it's kinda the same as any other DAC, digital source makes a difference for sure, though i've actually ended up preferring the USB to many of the DDCs i've tried. With some like the pi2aes simply being a little different but not clearly better/worse.

 

With the PLL on though.... the differences between all digital sources are so incredibly minor that I have not been able to tell them apart in a blind test and really would not recommend spending much on a DDC other than a decent streamer in order to get away from having a PC in the chain (ifi iGalvanic also works wonders for this). It just puts EVERYTHING on such a level playing field it's nuts. There have been times where I've THOUGHT I heard a difference, but then if I tried to pick it out blind I just couldn't.

Even optical from the PC the PLL takes it from this:

 

to this:

(Also just to mention all these measurements were taken with my old ADC. So for the optical measurement below where it's noise limited, it's quite likely the true performance is actually lower...
My new ADC I can measure much lower as seen in the USB measurement at the bottom of this post)

 

Literally, it makes straight up PC optical better than denafrips hermes I2S:

 

 

The USB itself is also quite frankly nuts, jitter is almost entirely below -170dB and I'm basically limited by the accuracy of my ADC not the DAC. (those close in spurs might actually be the result of the ADC not the DAC, would need a notch filter to check)

 

This is the upgraded USB module found in the Level 2/3. I don't know how the spring 2 or May L1 usb would perform. The USB also has the advantage of no PLL locking time like there is on the other inputs.

 

So honestly, my advice would be that the May has such an incredible PLL and USB input (which also has full galvanic isolation) that honestly a DDC just isn't needed.

[BrownMagic]

6 minutes ago, GoldenOne said:

The USB on spring 2 is good but many have reported that using a good I2S or SPDIF digital source yields an improvement.

Thanks a lot. That really helps. Just to clarify, if PLL is not there then Coax would be the superior input. So my current transport is a Primare NP5 which does not have a USB. It only has Coax, so I am better of using the Coax knowing that I have the best input. 

[GoldenOne]

Just now, BrownMagic said:

Thanks a lot. That really helps. Just to clarify, if PLL is not there then Coax would be the superior input. So my current transport is a Primare NP5 which does not have a USB. It only has Coax, so I am better of using the Coax knowing that I have the best input. 

A PLL is a method of attenuating Jitter.

The May PLL is currently the most powerful PLL in any dac you can get, and it will turn even crappy sources into practically perfect ones.

Without a PLL, you're reliant on the quality of your source. So with the spring, whether USB is better than coax will depend on the quality of the spring's USB implementation and the quality of the transport being used. It could be one way or the other

[The Computer Audiophile]

10 minutes ago, GoldenOne said:

On the spring 2 there will be a difference as there is no PLL.
The USB on spring 2 is good but many have reported that using a good I2S or SPDIF digital source yields an improvement.

On the may though, with PLL on anyway, no they should all sound the same and whilst i've THOUGHT I heard a difference now and then, I wasn't able to pick it out as soon as I blind tested.

Copypasting my post from head-fi in response to someone asking about trying various sources on the may:
 

I have yes. Both objectively and subjectively.

 

Subjectively, I find that with the PLL off, it's kinda the same as any other DAC, digital source makes a difference for sure, though i've actually ended up preferring the USB to many of the DDCs i've tried. With some like the pi2aes simply being a little different but not clearly better/worse.

 

With the PLL on though.... the differences between all digital sources are so incredibly minor that I have not been able to tell them apart in a blind test and really would not recommend spending much on a DDC other than a decent streamer in order to get away from having a PC in the chain (ifi iGalvanic also works wonders for this). It just puts EVERYTHING on such a level playing field it's nuts. There have been times where I've THOUGHT I heard a difference, but then if I tried to pick it out blind I just couldn't.

Even optical from the PC the PLL takes it from this:

 

to this:

(Also just to mention all these measurements were taken with my old ADC. So for the optical measurement below where it's noise limited, it's quite likely the true performance is actually lower...
My new ADC I can measure much lower as seen in the USB measurement at the bottom of this post)

 

Literally, it makes straight up PC optical better than denafrips hermes I2S:

 

 

The USB itself is also quite frankly nuts, jitter is almost entirely below -170dB and I'm basically limited by the accuracy of my ADC not the DAC. (those close in spurs might actually be the result of the ADC not the DAC, would need a notch filter to check)

 

This is the upgraded USB module found in the Level 2/3. I don't know how the spring 2 or May L1 usb would perform. The USB also has the advantage of no PLL locking time like there is on the other inputs.

 

So honestly, my advice would be that the May has such an incredible PLL and USB input (which also has full galvanic isolation) that honestly a DDC just isn't needed.

Very cool!

[BrownMagic]

34 minutes ago, GoldenOne said:

A PLL is a method of attenuating Jitter.

The May PLL is currently the most powerful PLL in any dac you can get, and it will turn even crappy sources into practically perfect ones.

Thanks a lot for simplifying this. PLL applies to the whole DAC and not just an input am I right? So irrespective of which input you use on the May, it will apply PLL and clean the incoming signal and remove the jitter. 

[GoldenOne]

1 minute ago, BrownMagic said:

Thanks a lot for simplifying this. PLL applies to the whole DAC and not just an input am I right? So irrespective of which input you use on the May, it will apply PLL and clean the incoming signal and remove the jitter. 

PLL applies to the digital inputs.
It's active on all inputs including I2S. So with PLL on, no matter which input/source you use, it should end up basically "perfect".

To be clear though. There are good and bad PLLs. Lots of other DACs will have a PLL which will attenuate jitter a little bit. But it's because the may's PLL is so ridiculously good that you can use any source and have it come out basically perfect.