HOLO Audio MAY DAC

[ted_b]

Goldenone, I can hear that the 8x to 16x is a big improvement, and taking away the hf issue I mentioned (as if I can hear through that!!) I agree so far that the gap between 16fs and 32fs is much smaller..but still there. 

 

You mentioned DDC.  Are you listening via May USB or via I2S (via DDC)?

[ted_b]

1 minute ago, Quadman said:

Are you listening to PCM 1.411/1.532 Mhz?  Why would DSD guy do that? 

🙂  I've always said (about my Spring KTE) that I do not convert formats; I like PCM as hirez PCM and DSD as up-modulated DSD.  Easier lifting too.  BUT....that was with the Spring KTE.  I have not investigated those issues, yet, with the May.  Thanks for reminding me.  :)

[Quadman]

4 minutes ago, ted_b said:

that I do not convert formats; I like PCM as hirez PCM and DSD as up-modulated DSD

Wow, 99.9% of my catalog and Tidal and Qobuz are PCM and for years with Gustard X20U, T+ADac8DSD and now May L2++ I up sample all to DSD512.  Back when I first got the Gustard X20u to output DSD512 I was shocked at the improvement from 256 to 512.  512 was analog and 256 was really good digital.

[sledwards]

7 minutes ago, Quadman said:

The thinness and 2D images do nothing for me so I run back to DSD512, which has body, soul, 3D images, huge walk around stage and so much musical joy

I’ve had my May for about 2 months now and have fully explored the high rate stuff. The PCM 1.44/1.53 is good, but if you have the horsepower, DSD1024, AMSDM7 512+fs, poly-sinc-short-mp is the best I’ve heard yet. Checks all the boxes; defined bass, beautiful stage, no fatigue whatsoever. I will get around to trying PGGB, but I seriously doubt it will surpass what I am hearing now.

[Quadman]

9 minutes ago, sledwards said:

DSD1024, AMSDM7 512+fs,

I'm a little short of horse power (10700K), but when no drop outs occur it sounds wonderful and I can't wait for 12th gen CPU which should handle 1024 with no cuda on a lot of modulators.

[Foggie]

2 minutes ago, sledwards said:

I will get around to trying PGGB, but I seriously doubt it will surpass what I am hearing now.

I'll admit I don't fully understand the purpose of PGGB (other than the stated goal), but even if it did, are people actually converting their library to another format / file version?  Surely do whatever one wants to do in the name of SQ, but losing all the metadata, converting 1k, 2k, 10k files, the time, sheer disk space etc...  oh my gooodness.  I must be missing something.

[sledwards]

6 minutes ago, Quadman said:

I'm a little short of horse power (10700K), but when no drop outs occur it sounds wonderful and I can't wait for 12th gen CPU which should handle 1024 with no cuda on a lot of modulators.

Must be my RTX2080 running Cuda, because my server processor is only an i7-8700K. I also run convolution at he same time. CPU load is high, 2 cores at 98%, 2 at about 57%, but temps are no concern, water cooled.

[ted_b]

3 minutes ago, Foggie said:

Surely do whatever one wants to do in the name of SQ, but losing all the metadata, converting 1k, 2k, 10k files, the time, sheer disk space etc...  oh my gooodness. 

If using PGGB you won't lose metadata, but you will use up significant disk space.  Most are doing subsets of their whole library and doing a sort of "jukebox" style of loading, say, 100 albums at a listen, to their hdd of choice.  But yes, its somewhat of a commitment, but clearly eases the lifting your server needs to do, as upsampling was already accomplished offline.  Best to investigate on the large PGGB  thread.

[scintilla]

My late-2012 iMac with a Quad Core 3.4 GHz Intel "Core i7" I7-3770 and no CUDA support in OS (even though it has a GeForce GTX 680MX 2 GB), will do DSD512, AMSDM7 512+fs, poly-sinc-short-mp with convolution on 30.14.  Trying it now while also on a vpn.  So the older intels can work all the way back to Ivy Bridge.

[mrkoven]

35 minutes ago, Foggie said:

I'll admit I don't fully understand the purpose of PGGB (other than the stated goal), but even if it did, are people actually converting their library to another format / file version?  Surely do whatever one wants to do in the name of SQ, but losing all the metadata, converting 1k, 2k, 10k files, the time, sheer disk space etc...  oh my gooodness.  I must be missing something.

 

the converted .wav metadata shows fine in HQP for me. file size is large.. one ~3min track is ~2gb.  but apparently you can use wavpack compression to significantly reduce the size w/o sq loss. havent tried wavpack myself as im not committed for now, just doing a trial. 

of course its ultimately for the sake of sq, as is the purpose of this entire forum? ive seen much more trivial tweaks in the name of sq, this pggb is not nearly trivial imo as its exponentially more taps than hqp can process real-time. as i mentioned for me i think the 32fs sq into May sounds better than any hqp pcm/dsd filters ive tried. now its really more about the ergonomics of it that will make me commit or not.

[Quadman]

3 hours ago, ted_b said:

getting high frequency distortion

Ted, I assume you are using HQP.  Try lowering the bits in HQP settings.  I am working in Listening room, so turned on system and noted that HF hash you describe with 20 bit output.  I lowered to 18bit and it went away.  Poly-sinc-XTR-Mp with ADSM7 512+ a fairly high computation filter.

[Foggie]

1 hour ago, mrkoven said:

 

the converted .wav metadata shows fine in HQP for me. file size is large.. one ~3min track is ~2gb.  but apparently you can use wavpack compression to significantly reduce the size w/o sq loss. havent tried wavpack myself as im not committed for now, just doing a trial. 

of course its ultimately for the sake of sq, as is the purpose of this entire forum? ive seen much more trivial tweaks in the name of sq, this pggb is not nearly trivial imo as its exponentially more taps than hqp can process real-time. as i mentioned for me i think the 32fs sq into May sounds better than any hqp pcm/dsd filters ive tried. now its really more about the ergonomics of it that will make me commit or not.

Fair points I suppose, but I'll bring these questions up in the dedicated PGGB thread

[ted_b]

23 minutes ago, Quadman said:

Ted, I assume you are using HQP.  Try lowering the bits in HQP settings.  I am working in Listening room, so turned on system and noted that HF hash you describe with 20 bit output.  I lowered to 18bit and it went away.  Poly-sinc-XTR-Mp with ADSM7 512+ a fairly high computation filter.

I need to understand two things:

1) are you saying you heard the hf hash at 20 bits in PCM?

2) are you saying that bit depth is an issue even when converting and playing back at DSD?

 

Thx

Ted

[Quadman]

57 minutes ago, ted_b said:

1) are you saying you heard the hf hash at 20 bits in PCM?

2) are you saying that bit depth is an issue even when converting and playing back at DSD?

I typed faster than my brain worked.  Yes PCM 32fs, dither was LNS15 (not the ADSM7 512+ DSD modulator I said above).  With 20 bit output I heard the HF hash/distortion.  Then I remembered something Jussi said about bit output and lowering it for better playback (no distortion) so I lowered to 18 bit and HF hash went away.

 

Here's a quote from Jussi on March 22 I believe; ".There shouldn't be notable difference between16- and20-bit at 1.5M, or even at 768k...." He was referring to the noise floor.

 

I don't have a HF issue at DSD512 with 20 or even 21 bits, generally I keep bit output at 20 bits for my Holo.

 

 

[scintilla]

My review this evening listening to local

broadcast FM from my Accuphase T-1000:

OMG.
 

Note the brevity. Please.

 

Accuphase, 24/48k out to UH-7000->HQP adsm7 512+fs, dsd512, poly-sinc-short-mp-2s , + convolution to May. 
 

[Hiker]

6 hours ago, scintilla said:

My review this evening listening to local

broadcast FM from my Accuphase T-1000:

OMG.
 

Note the brevity. Please.

 

Accuphase, 24/48k out to UH-7000->HQP adsm7 512+fs, dsd512, poly-sinc-short-mp-2s , + convolution to May. 
 

You must be an old dude, ha ,  I used my dear old Accuphase T-100 up until 2005 originally purchased in 1981 used though back in the day it was listened to near constantly with the highest of sound quality from some of the great FM stations and DJs of the day .

Id love to hear your tuner ,..

[scintilla]

I'm 54, which is starting to feel older than younger for sure; but to your point: yes, I am old enough to appreciate FM radio.  I have a T-101 as well and had a T-100 for many years too.  There is nothing quite like the sound of a really great FM tuner on a great station and with the T-1000, I can leverage the best of the DSP-based FM front ends with a digital output to DSD upsampling and acourate-based room correction in HQP and out to a state-of-the-art dac in the May.  It really does deliver the goods. It is digital audio at its finest. I decided to skip the Groove Salad today in favor of my local jazz station on the tuner.  Coltrane is cooking hard right now.

[MichaelHiFi]

43 minutes ago, scintilla said:

I'm 54, which is starting to feel older than younger for sure; but to your point: yes, I am old enough to appreciate FM radio.  I have a T-101 as well and had a T-100 for many years too.  There is nothing quite like the sound of a really great FM tuner on a great station and with the T-1000, I can leverage the best of the DSP-based FM front ends with a digital output to DSD upsampling and acourate-based room correction in HQP and out to a state-of-the-art dac in the May.  It really does deliver the goods. It is digital audio at its finest. I decided to skip the Groove Salad today in favor of my local jazz station on the tuner.  Coltrane is cooking hard right now.

 

Wish I was 54, but that was a long time ago... But I was Rocking "Good Rockin Tonight" by Ronnie Montrose. That brought me to my younger days. Through the May, It brought a distinct difference to the sound as expected. The Technics SL1800 TT (I still own) is/was definitely warmer, but the drums through the May DAC? Wholly crap! I still can't believe how much recorded information the May DAC uncovers.

 

Need to play with the room correction software through HQP one day although don't seem to need it lately.

 

Enjoy your tuner. Wish I hadn't sold mine :(

[Hiker]

2 hours ago, scintilla said:

I'm 54, which is starting to feel older than younger for sure; but to your point: yes, I am old enough to appreciate FM radio.  I have a T-101 as well and had a T-100 for many years too.  There is nothing quite like the sound of a really great FM tuner on a great station and with the T-1000, I can leverage the best of the DSP-based FM front ends with a digital output to DSD upsampling and acourate-based room correction in HQP and out to a state-of-the-art dac in the May.  It really does deliver the goods. It is digital audio at its finest. I decided to skip the Groove Salad today in favor of my local jazz station on the tuner.  Coltrane is cooking hard right now.

Oh man I bet it’s just fabulous,.back in the day my place was a drop in centre , well it turned into a party central a farm house just on the city line ,.I’d have a FM station on the majority of the time and only playing vinyl occasionally. 
The sound quality of some of those stations was phenomenal and finally I just got word my KTE dac is out for delivery,...

[Quadman]

I was playing around with 32fs PCM the last couple of days and when I go from DSD512 up sampling to 32fs PCM up sampling the volume with PCM is LOWER than the volume with DSD.  Is this the same for you?  Wednesday evening while playing DSD512 I switched to 32fs PCM and had to raise HQP volume 6 clicks to get the same perceived volume as DSD512.

 

May manual only says PCM at 48K output 2.9V RCA and DSD 64x output at 1.45V (-6db), no mention of higher rate PCM output

 

 

[MichaelHiFi]

On 5/5/2021 at 10:44 AM, sledwards said:

I’ve had my May for about 2 months now and have fully explored the high rate stuff. The PCM 1.44/1.53 is good, but if you have the horsepower, DSD1024, AMSDM7 512+fs, poly-sinc-short-mp is the best I’ve heard yet. Checks all the boxes; defined bass, beautiful stage, no fatigue whatsoever. I will get around to trying PGGB, but I seriously doubt it will surpass what I am hearing now.

Can I ask what bit rate limit you have set? HQP crashes when I try to go DSD1024. 

 

I have seemingly the slowest computer I have ever used. It can take minutes to open and close HQP. But it should be capable of DSD1024. This music server is kicking my ass trying to get some speed out of it.

 

 

 

 

 

[sledwards]

9 minutes ago, MichaelHiFi said:

Can I ask what bit rate limit you have set? HQP crashes when I try to go DSD1024. 

[Hiker]

Finally my May dac arrived , tracking info showed it vacationing in New York City for four days before being packed on a slow mule for Canada ,...

[austinpop]

1 hour ago, Hiker said:

Finally my May dac arrived , tracking info showed it vacationing in New York City for four days before being packed on a slow mule for Canada ,...

 

Congratulations! Looks great. BTW - is that a real brick wall or a Zoom background? I swear I've seen that brick wall in so many zoom calls now... 

[Hiker]

11 minutes ago, austinpop said:

 

Congratulations! Looks great. BTW - is that a real brick wall or a Zoom background? I swear I've seen that brick wall in so many zoom calls now... 

Thank you for the compliment,,...Ha , I have to confess I couldn’t take a single photo of the original background in this room and purchased a photography back drop from Amazon and for under 100 bucks it looks pretty good LOL ...

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