Perception and measurement

[Daccord]

Which table is longer?

 

They are the same size. While they look different, it's not because we're measuring the wrong thing (or we do not yet know what to measure). This optical illusion was published by Roger N. Shepard in 1990, who wrote that "any knowledge or understanding of the illusion we may gain at the intellectual level remains virtually powerless to diminish the magnitude of the illusion."

 

The following youtube video demonstrates several auditory illusions.

 

What we hear is influenced by what we see (and sometimes what we see is influenced by what we hear). In the McGurk effect, even when we know we're hearing the same audio track, we hear it differently with different video tracks.

 

I've noticed that most specialty audiophile power cords, USB cables, ethernet cables, etc look nothing like the standard cables they're replacing. Their attention-grabbing appearance lets you know they are in the system, and if you are inclined to believe this could make a difference (because you read about it in a magazine or someone told you it will enhance the sound stage width) you will probably hear a difference. And when no one - not even the vendor - can provide a measurable difference the only explanation is that we don't yet know what to measure?

[photonman]

That optical illusion is pretty cool as I had to get out my tape measure to confirm as at first sight I said "no way".  The video is very interesting too and kind makes you question everything we ever heard or believed.

 

I guess another subjectivist vs. measurementalist angle here.

[Ralf11]

...

[sandyk]

 

https://petapixel.com/2019/07/31/this-black-and-white-photo-uses-color-grid-lines-to-trick-your-brain/
"......Check out this photo. Although it may look like a color picture upon first glance (and even more so if you squint or view it from a distance), it’s actually a black-and-white photo with thin color grid lines overlaid on it to trick your brain into filling in the missing color....."

[John Dyson]

One note -- I don't fit in either one category as someone who depends on my senses for audio vs measurement.  Sometimes both are helpful.  Sometimes one or the other can be misleading.   It has been absolutely necessary to integrate all information sources for my project.  Sometimes audiophiles try to make their systems into a big engineering project - it is best to be very wise in putting all of the available facts together, and use competent judgement.  Sometimes all desired tools are not available...  Do the best that you can, but choosing one or the other isn't always going to be optimal...

 

John

 

[Michaelb4]

At some point isn’t about what you hear? Last week I sat down to listen to Ben Webster and drink a little bourbon. The most relevant measurement I guess was the amount of bourbon in the glass. 
 

Do measurements make people want to seek the more perfect?  I guess it is about rational decision making but it all seems a little weird to me. 

[pkane2001]

7 minutes ago, Michaelb4 said:

At some point isn’t about what you hear? Last week I sat down to listen to Ben Webster and drink a little bourbon. The most relevant measurement I guess was the amount of bourbon in the glass. 
 

Do measurements make people want to seek the more perfect?  I guess it is about rational decision making but it all seems a little weird to me. 

 

Bourbon (and even more so, single malt scotch) is a very rational and measured approach to improving sound quality. No need to feel bad about it.

[photonman]

2 minutes ago, pkane2001 said:

 

Bourbon (and even more so, single malt scotch) is a very rational and measured approach to improving sound quality. No need to feel bad about it.

When they label that single malt with a hand written barrel number boldly marked, it sure does make it more special and taste better

[Daccord]

10 minutes ago, Michaelb4 said:

At some point isn’t about what you hear? Last week I sat down to listen to Ben Webster and drink a little bourbon. The most relevant measurement I guess was the amount of bourbon in the glass. 
 

Do measurements make people want to seek the more perfect?  I guess it is about rational decision making but it all seems a little weird to me. 

 

 I think you'll find those seeking the more perfect don't have much faith in measurements. I'll happily sit down with you and listen to some Ben Webster and drink a little bourbon. But please don't tell me about your ethernet switch.

[pkane2001]

37 minutes ago, photonman said:

hand written barrel number boldly marked, it sure does make it more special and taste better

 

Let's try a blind test on that one. Let's see if the hand-written barrel number really makes a difference. For a statistically significant result, you'll need to repeat at least 10-15 times with a p value of less than 0.05. By the end of a test, double-blindness is guaranteed: you'll see double and be legally blind.

 

[Ralf11]

I volunteer.  I will pm my shipping address.

[esldude]

3 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

I volunteer.  I will pm my shipping address.

You do realize you'll also be revealing your sipping address??

[Ralf11]

They differ!

[Allan F]

1 hour ago, pkane2001 said:

 

Bourbon (and even more so, single malt scotch) is a very rational and measured approach to improving sound quality. No need to feel bad about it.

 

And the more it is aged, the better you feel.

[esldude]

2 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

They differ!

Too sneaky.

[STC]

Stereo itself is an illusion. While most audiophiles can recreate the actual image in their head by listening to stereo sound but for those who never been exposed to artificial sound can find them very disorienting due contradiction with visual and audio cues. For audiophiles maybe they have allowed themself to be more influenced by the illusion than objectivists.

 

If You have never seen the face of Jesus before than you only see the toast bread. Who is correct?

 

[Michaelb4]

Honest to God I don’t know what an Ethernet Switch is. I have Benchmark DAC and Amp and the most important reason I have them is that when I purchased them Benchmark had and probably still has a liberal return policy. 
 

I liked what I heard.

3 hours ago, Daccord said:

 

 I think you'll find those seeking the more perfect don't have much faith in measurements. I'll happily sit down with you and listen to some Ben Webster and drink a little bourbon. But please don't tell me about your ethernet switch.

 

[Daccord]

3 minutes ago, STC said:

If You have never seen the face of Jesus before than you only see the toast bread. Who is correct?

 

We can only speculate, as Jesus predates the pizza-cam by several centuries.

[STC]

9 minutes ago, Daccord said:

 

We can only speculate, as Jesus predates the pizza-cam by several centuries.

obviously I have not seen a pizza before. 😂

[Daccord]

8 minutes ago, Michaelb4 said:

Honest to God I don’t know what an Ethernet Switch is. I have Benchmark DAC and Amp and the most important reason I have them is that when I purchased them Benchmark had and probably still has a liberal return policy. 
 

I liked what I heard.

 

 

I suspect we wouldn't have to get very far into that bottle of bourbon before we were both just enjoying the music.

[esldude]

19 minutes ago, STC said:

Stereo itself is an illusion. While most audiophiles can recreate the actual image in their head by listening to stereo sound but for those who never been exposed to artificial sound can find them very disorienting due contradiction with visual and audio cues. For audiophiles maybe they have allowed themself to be more influenced by the illusion than objectivists.

 

If You have never seen the face of Jesus before than you only see the toast bread. Who is correct?

 

Actually I see the head of a white horse, and a rider wearing a scary looking helmet or perhaps having a bony head without skin.  Rather like one of the 4 horses of the apocalypse from the book of Revelations.  

 

[STC]

Turn the picture to the side and you will see a turtle head. Funny I could see that because I never saw the Batman logo in the image below. It only when someone pointed out the shape of the bat I realized the meaning of it. Even now whenever I see the logo, it appears like a cartoon figure with big teeth mouth wide open. I have to force myself to see the bat. 
 

[semente]

It looks remarkably like El Che. 🤔

[mansr]

1 hour ago, STC said:

Turn the picture to the side and you will see a turtle head. Funny I could see that because I never saw the Batman logo in the image below. It only when someone pointed out the shape of the bat I realized the meaning of it. Even now whenever I see the logo, it appears like a cartoon figure with big teeth mouth wide open. I have to force myself to see the bat. 
 

Finally, another person who sees the teeth.

[STC]

3 minutes ago, mansr said:

Finally, another person who sees the teeth.

You tooooo! I thought I am the only one. But now no one in this forum going to admit.