Article: Roon 1.7 With Valence Is Released

[firedog]

4 hours ago, frederick184 said:

Upgraded to 1.7 last night.  All went well until I tried to play music, then I got "playback was interrupted because a track failed to load".  I went to the account page to find "error retrieving account information".  I created another core on my laptop and my credentials worked just fine and I could play music, just not from my server core.

 

I opened a ticket with Roon support, but I can tell it's going to be a lengthy process.  Yes, I did reboot my server.

 

Colin

Did you try removing the account info so your account isn't registered and  then re-entering the info and re-registering?

[bobbmd]

@frederick184@firedog read my trials and tribulations in previous posts on page one here-- how i ended up with audio zones that never existed in ver 1.6 and 2 zones of my brand new Schiit Yggdrasil GS one playing only  an end of  pathway of OS mixer/high quality and another one of Apple core audio playing lossless.

I came here to AS and to Head-Fi.org for an answer because my last fiasco with ROON's socalled 'support'/'community' ended up like the ending line to a movie...."forget it Jake, it's just Chinatown" good luck/ keep me posted but i have no idea how to help you except what i did... disconnect everything shut the computer down unhook the dac then restart/rehook(and cross your fingers) you might be surprised what you may find 'new' on ver 1.7!

[frederick184]

3 hours ago, firedog said:

Did you try removing the account info so your account isn't registered and  then re-entering the info and re-registering?

Yes, I did.  It didn't help.  The other core on my laptop accepts my credentials just fine.  I tried connecting to the server core, but I need to log in, and when I do it asks "are you online?"

 

Colin

[reelben]

I have used Daphile years,.. and JRiver. 

Al the years was Daphile the best... Only 

Now I try a month audirvana and Roon!

For me is it now Roon as Winner. 

Play with a Intel nuc(roon rock) and on the USbridge signature Ropieee, Wow!

It is  amazing now to 1.7 🎶

I have my own music (wave) and stream qubuz and tidal, Qubuz is a musical winner. 

I have buy roon for a lifetime membership now.

I'm happy with the music 🎻 

 

[DancingSea]

On 11/22/2019 at 2:45 AM, firedog said:

Roon said straight out at their forum that the $500 lifetime was/is a money loser for them and not a sustainable economic model;

 

I write this not as a criticism of Roon, but rather out of software economics curiosity.  All the other players in this space, A+, Amarra, HQP, etc have not taken the subscription route.  These charge for a license for a given rendition, have free minor updates along the way, and then offer major, optional updates for an additional fee.  With Audirvana I paid $74 for 2.6 and paid another $40 to upgrade to 3.5 about 2 years later.

 

The question is why are Roon’s financial needs so much greater than the other software players?  Why is a $500, and now $700 for a lifetime license, not sustainable for Roon? Is it because Roon is a larger company compared to the one man bands of A+ and HQP, thus have more mouths to feed?  Following the A+ pattern I described above of a 2 year upgrade cycle, it would take approximately 30 years to equal a total of $674 paid to Damien.

 

I use Roon everyday.  Roon is a premium product and when combined with HQP, makes an outstanding system.  I understand Roon wants to maximize their profit and will charge what the market will bear.  I understand that a continual stream of annual fees will make Roon more money.  But I don’t understand how a $700 lifetime license fee is specifically unsustainable, or even $500.

 

Roon does seem to have a corporate structure of VP’s, COO’s, CFO’s etc.  While HQP and Audirvana have a corporate structure of perhaps a few house pets.  And maybe that’s the ultimate difference of why Roon needs more money, to pay the big salaries?

 

It’s an interesting strategic quandary.  The low price to get more folks in the tent vs a significantly higher price to get more from fewer.  I like Valence and appreciate Roon’s move to incorporate Pandora like recommendations, and the new radio features are interesting, but how much more can really be done to improve Roon in a major way?  And it seems they will one day have to move to monthly billing.  But isn’t $10/ month about the ceiling for album sorting software?  How could they charge more?  Seems they need a lot more customers and not yet higher prices.

[Ran]

1 hour ago, DancingSea said:

How could they charge more?

 

Because they can. Roon is the current darling of the Audiophile press. That is until a new player comes along. 

[bobbmd]

@DancingSea Hi- I think you are correct- for those of you that don't remember ROON evolved from and came from the same people who brought us Meridian's massively expensive system that was ROON on steroids- I remember drooling over it on the cover of Stereophile. I bought the 500$ lifetime subscription it has paid for itself but I don't how it helps ROON's bottom line. I love ROON's format SQ etc and this new version--- but A+3 with it's 'one man show' is much more friendly quicker to react to problems etc and world wide must far outdistance ROON in customers-it would be very sad if Amazon or Apple buys ROON it would be even less friendly/cooperative but have more customers.

[JDoyle]

Has anyone here encountered the track skipping issues with the new release?

Just started today for me... not sure if it’s a Tidal issue or not. There’s a couple of threads over at the community.

[Jud]

3 hours ago, DancingSea said:

The question is why are Roon’s financial needs so much greater than the other software players?

 

I don't use Roon. But it seems to me they have to find the money somewhere to pay people to provide the extra metadata and search facilities the software has.

[AudioDoctor]

23 minutes ago, Jud said:

 

I don't use Roon. But it seems to me they have to find the money somewhere to pay people to provide the extra metadata and search facilities the software has.

 

Jud, common sense has no place here in this forum...  😉

[JDoyle]

1 hour ago, JDoyle said:

Has anyone here encountered the track skipping issues with the new release?

Just started today for me... not sure if it’s a Tidal issue or not. There’s a couple of threads over at the community.

I logged out of Tidal and then back in... seems to have fixed my skipping issue 

[Archimago]

Nice to see the update. Incremental improvements.

 

Please, Roon. Allow remote streaming from one's home Core, even if transcoded to MP3 320kbps for performance/data reduction.

 

That would be the one obvious feature I suspect many desire (software like Logitech Media Server have been doing this for years) and worth a significant version increase.

[Ran]

2 hours ago, Archimago said:

Please, Roon. Allow remote streaming from one's home Core, even if transcoded to MP3 320kbps for performance/data reduction.

 

BubbleUPnP does it pretty well as well.

[Account Closed]

On 11/23/2019 at 7:36 PM, Jud said:

 

I don't use Roon. But it seems to me they have to find the money somewhere to pay people to provide the extra metadata and search facilities the software has.

Not to mention the functionality, look and feel.

[jiminlogansquare]

On 11/23/2019 at 7:36 PM, Jud said:

 

I don't use Roon. But it seems to me they have to find the money somewhere to pay people to provide the extra metadata and search facilities the software has.

This. See the following quoted from Sound and Vision's recent review of the Roon 1.7 update; this is at least in significant part human labor that Roon subscribers pay for. Roon is software as a service, not just an app you download and run like Audirvana.

 

"Valence has also led to improvements in several long-standing Roon features, including a re-engineered search algorithm that now tracks “hundreds of data points” to deliver more accurate and relevant results. Classical composer and composition views also now present data more clearly and comprehensively and enable sorting by popularity (based on the Roon community’s listening history). Meta data for credits has been improved in terms of the coverage and accuracy. Roon says more than 44 million additional credits have been introduced to fill gaps that existed before."

Read more at https://www.soundandvision.com/content/roon-update-takes-personalization-next-level#2Df77Fj4Q31ZDbYW.99

[fpalm69]

On 11/22/2019 at 2:31 PM, bobbmd said:

@The Computer Audiophile @rn701 as it turns out when i rebooted my mac and restarted ROON ver !.7   my Zone(s) for yggy gs gen5usb was now 2 different zones one with apple core audio one with OS mixer plus i now had 4 different zones i never had before or had set up one for my family room apple tv/one for my apple tv in living room/one for chromcast-google home in the kitchen and which i never automatically connected/one for my hdtv display. I have no idea why they showed up after the download of ver 1.7 and after i rebooted but all is ok for now and A+3 works just fine

@rn701 that page you showed me is what i got if i clicked setup for the DAC that only played high quality just says device and there is no exclusive mode but if i click the other yggy DAC or ME2 dac it shows/offers exclusive mode because they are set up for Apple core audio. I have stopped trying to figure why these things happen like the bumper sticker says... "schiit(shit) happens" and trying to figure out how ROON acts and reacts is like "...forget it Jake it's just Chinatown..."

A+3 Qobuz and TIDAL all work well alone now.

will try to post a screenshot of what i am explained.

thanks for all your help and i hope i have not worn out my welcome (if i ever had one) have a nice weekend and Happy Thanksgiving

 

Did you reboot the modem/router?  I had several connectivity issues that were always solved with a modem power cycle.

[bobbmd]

@fpalm69 yes I did I had my cable provider Spectrum do it along with what I did while all my stuff was off/disconnected

[Darryl R]

Version 1.7/505 broke the "Prefer File" import functionality on my server.  I have a lot of classical albums Roon determines to be of an "unknown artist".  Prior to now, I'd selected "prefer file" on everything I could, and Roon consistently used my two-tier, file system naming scheme (composer then album) to form the album name.  As of 1.7/505, Roon ignores my names if it knows the artist, so I have a mess of inconsistent album names.  Come to think of it, this is how Room behaved when I first tried it, but it got better a year later and I subscribed.  Now it's back again.  Guess I'm a bit of an oddball in that I Iike most of the UI, but want their metadata handling turned completely off.  But then, that's how they justify the subscription fee.

[firedog]

On 11/23/2019 at 11:21 PM, DancingSea said:

 

I write this not as a criticism of Roon, but rather out of software economics curiosity.  All the other players in this space, A+, Amarra, HQP, etc have not taken the subscription route.  These charge for a license for a given rendition, have free minor updates along the way, and then offer major, optional updates for an additional fee.  With Audirvana I paid $74 for 2.6 and paid another $40 to upgrade to 3.5 about 2 years later.

 

The question is why are Roon’s financial needs so much greater than the other software players?  Why is a $500, and now $700 for a lifetime license, not sustainable for Roon? Is it because Roon is a larger company compared to the one man bands of A+ and HQP, thus have more mouths to feed?  Following the A+ pattern I described above of a 2 year upgrade cycle, it would take approximately 30 years to equal a total of $674 paid to Damien.

 

I use Roon everyday.  Roon is a premium product and when combined with HQP, makes an outstanding system.  I understand Roon wants to maximize their profit and will charge what the market will bear.  I understand that a continual stream of annual fees will make Roon more money.  But I don’t understand how a $700 lifetime license fee is specifically unsustainable, or even $500.

 

Roon does seem to have a corporate structure of VP’s, COO’s, CFO’s etc.  While HQP and Audirvana have a corporate structure of perhaps a few house pets.  And maybe that’s the ultimate difference of why Roon needs more money, to pay the big salaries?

 

It’s an interesting strategic quandary.  The low price to get more folks in the tent vs a significantly higher price to get more from fewer.  I like Valence and appreciate Roon’s move to incorporate Pandora like recommendations, and the new radio features are interesting, but how much more can really be done to improve Roon in a major way?  And it seems they will one day have to move to monthly billing.  But isn’t $10/ month about the ceiling for album sorting software?  How could they charge more?  Seems they need a lot more customers and not yet higher prices.

I don't know the details of the economics, but clearly Roon, with it's use of metadata data bases and full integration of streaming services into the UI and the user's library, has a lot of expenses - both royalty payments and server costs - that most of the other playback softwares don't have. Those are ongoing expenses, not one off charges, that have to be covered. So the economics of a program like Roon are quite different. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

On 11/23/2019 at 3:21 PM, DancingSea said:

 

I write this not as a criticism of Roon, but rather out of software economics curiosity.  All the other players in this space, A+, Amarra, HQP, etc have not taken the subscription route.  These charge for a license for a given rendition, have free minor updates along the way, and then offer major, optional updates for an additional fee.  With Audirvana I paid $74 for 2.6 and paid another $40 to upgrade to 3.5 about 2 years later.

 

The question is why are Roon’s financial needs so much greater than the other software players?  Why is a $500, and now $700 for a lifetime license, not sustainable for Roon? Is it because Roon is a larger company compared to the one man bands of A+ and HQP, thus have more mouths to feed?  Following the A+ pattern I described above of a 2 year upgrade cycle, it would take approximately 30 years to equal a total of $674 paid to Damien.

 

I use Roon everyday.  Roon is a premium product and when combined with HQP, makes an outstanding system.  I understand Roon wants to maximize their profit and will charge what the market will bear.  I understand that a continual stream of annual fees will make Roon more money.  But I don’t understand how a $700 lifetime license fee is specifically unsustainable, or even $500.

 

Roon does seem to have a corporate structure of VP’s, COO’s, CFO’s etc.  While HQP and Audirvana have a corporate structure of perhaps a few house pets.  And maybe that’s the ultimate difference of why Roon needs more money, to pay the big salaries?

 

It’s an interesting strategic quandary.  The low price to get more folks in the tent vs a significantly higher price to get more from fewer.  I like Valence and appreciate Roon’s move to incorporate Pandora like recommendations, and the new radio features are interesting, but how much more can really be done to improve Roon in a major way?  And it seems they will one day have to move to monthly billing.  But isn’t $10/ month about the ceiling for album sorting software?  How could they charge more?  Seems they need a lot more customers and not yet higher prices.

Every Roon user means the company has to pay someone else for its ability to provide that user metadata. 
 

In other words, every Roon user costs the company money in a way that every Amarra user doesn’t cast Sonic Studio. 

[lucretius]

On 11/23/2019 at 7:36 PM, Jud said:

 

I don't use Roon. But it seems to me they have to find the money somewhere to pay people to provide the extra metadata and search facilities the software has.

Looks like Roon takes the metadata directly from Allmusic. I assume they pay a fee for this. As for the more sophisticated search facilities, not everyone needs this. Perhaps that could be a feature that has an optional cost, while having a lower cost tier for the masses. And, if Roon ever adopts this lower cost tier, perhaps they could drop their religion and start supporting DLNA.

 

 

[StephenJK]

If I understand it correctly, Valence is an adaptable engine that analyzes my musical tastes and makes recommendations based on my selections?
 

if so, I would hesitate to use that, it sounds like the “Facebooking” of music, where you get more of what they think you like. 
 

i could be wrong, it certainly wouldn’t be the first time. What happens to the prediction algorithm when you listen to “A Charlie Brown Christmas” with the Vince Guaraldi Trio on Christmas Eve?  Or The Messiah?

 

Do I get Flying Lotus for the next three weeks?

 

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

32 minutes ago, SJK said:

What happens to the prediction algorithm when you listen to “A Charlie Brown Christmas” with the Vince Guaraldi Trio on Christmas Eve?  Or The Messiah?

 

Do I get Flying Lotus for the next three weeks?

 

 

I hope the algorithm is smarter than to look at the name Charlie Brown and make decisions. If it’s like Pandora's it looks at way more factors.
 

Roon has been tight-lipped so far.  

[StephenJK]

Chris,

 

Then I’ll wait for an update from you. I do have hardware that is Roon Ready and don’t mind trying something new. 

[Blake]

I updated to 1.7.  No issues at all.  Works great.