The EtherREGEN thread for various network, cable, power experiences and experiments

[Rsbrsvp]

Forgive me for my ignorance, but why not get a good cat 8 cable and remove the metal shield from one side?

[Rsbrsvp]

John, please just tell us your best cable recommendation for a router to A side of regen rj45.

[GMG]

25 minutes ago, Rsbrsvp said:

John, please just tell us your best cable recommendation for a router to A side of regen rj45.

The best one will be Fiber, which removes this entire concern. A least for the network's part in all the leakage and ground problems

[JohnSwenson]

53 minutes ago, Rsbrsvp said:

Forgive me for my ignorance, but why not get a good cat 8 cable and remove the metal shield from one side?

Of course you are free to do anything you want. Buying a CAT8 and modifying to cut the end to end shield connection can certainly be done.

 

But just because something says it is CAT8 does not necessarily mean it has really good dielectric, some do , some don't.

 

John S.

[Rsbrsvp]

How do I connect Fibre to my router rj45 port?

[MartinT]

10 hours ago, Rsbrsvp said:

Seems the Sablon is very favored for the B to streamer cable. For router to A and server to A, what do I get?

 

I understand we want plastic terminated cables here.  Is that correct?

 

I use a MeiCord Opal cable, which works very well.

[JohnSwenson]

50 minutes ago, Rsbrsvp said:

John, please just tell us your best cable recommendation for a router to A side of regen rj45.

There is no way I am giving Ethernet cable recommendations. I have NOT spent years and millions of dollars trying everything out there so there would be no way I could make a reasonable recommendation.

 

And even then that would be what is best in MY system, not what is best in yours.

 

My own personal selection process is find something that uses polypropylene or teflon for the insulation on the wires (NOT the jacket) and is unshielded. That's it. You may wind up liking some expensive audiophile company cable, but I can't tell you what that might be.

 

John S.

[acousticsguru]

13 hours ago, Rsbrsvp said:

Seems the Sablon is very favored for the B to streamer cable. For router to A and server to A, what do I get?

 

I understand we want plastic terminated cables here.  Is that correct?

The relevant part is, you want to use unshielded as per John's recommendation, and yes, the plugs and termination may make more of a difference than the cable itself. I use Meicord for this reason, which I compared to more expensive cables, and to my surprise, there were differences (I honestly expected none). The Meicord has the advantage of making the Ethernet input sound just like any other digital input on the Vivaldi stack, versus tailoring the sound one way or the other (but of course if one's system sounds e.g. bright, I might prefer a cable such as the Cardas etc. & etc., so it's really system-dependent as well as a matter of taste, there's no right and wrong here).

 

Greetings from Switzerland, David.

[acousticsguru]

7 minutes ago, acousticsguru said:

The relevant part is, you want to use unshielded as per John's recommendation, and yes, the plugs and termination may make more of a difference than the cable itself. I use Meicord for this reason, which I compared to more expensive cables, and to my surprise, there were differences (I honestly expected none). The Meicord has the advantage of making the Ethernet input sound just like any other digital input on the Vivaldi stack, versus tailoring the sound one way or the other (but of course if one's system sounds e.g. bright, I might prefer a cable such as the Cardas etc. & etc., so it's really system-dependent as well as a matter of taste, there's no right and wrong here).

 

Greetings from Switzerland, David.

Needless to say, an added advantage of something like the Meicord (which is an unshielded CAT6, as per the recommendation for audio purposes) is the price, so one can use the same cable throughout, for runs to and from the EtherREGEN, from the Router to the NAS etc. & etc. In my experience, it never sounds better to mix and match cables, I'd rather use the best I can afford throughout.

 

Greetings from Switzerland, David.

[Rsbrsvp]

I think I'll go with the blue jeans.  Floating shield and insulated belden wires.

 

Just read a report of a direct comparison of blue jeans to meicord and the blue jeans won.

 

Seems to meet the description of Mr. Swenson

[ambre]

1 hour ago, Rsbrsvp said:

 

Just read a report of a direct comparison of blue jeans to meicord and the blue jeans won.

Please share. 
Thanks in advance

[Rsbrsvp]

Google:  "meichord opal blue jeans" and there are several comparisons on the NAIM thread.

[acousticsguru]

2 hours ago, Rsbrsvp said:

I think I'll go with the blue jeans.  Floating shield and insulated belden wires.

 

Just read a report of a direct comparison of blue jeans to meicord and the blue jeans won.

 

Seems to meet the description of Mr. Swenson

A cable can only "win" a comparison in a given context. The important thing to learn from that comparison is that the unshielded CAT6 cables outperform shielded CAT7 etc., as indeed they should. To use a shielded Ethernet cable for audio and/or the EtherREGEN basically defeats the purpose of using Ethernet at all.

 

Greetings from Switzerland, David.

[Rsbrsvp]

I am new to this forum although I have been active in headfi for several years.

 

I feel a need as a show of appreciation to publicly express how pleased I am with the etherregen.

 

But first:  Alex has spent so so much time just explaining to me how streaming audio works and how to set up my system, I cannot believe the type of support I have received from him for a relatively small purchase.  Uptone customer service is nothing short of grade AAA.

 

Now on to the etherregen.  I have purchased alot of equipment over the years including an LPS and iso regen from uptone.  Never was my reaction to a component as uterlly shocking as it was to the etherregen.  It is FAR and away the craziest improvement to my system ever, and I own some pretty fancy stuff like a mutec ref. se-120 clock.

 

I consider this product a miracle.  Other stuff I bought from uptone was good performance vs price ratio stuff, but not miraculous.  The etherregen is the most positively influential component I ever purchased; cost no object.

 

There you have it.  My report of my findings completely truthfull and non exagerated. 

 

Thank you to Uptone

[Rsbrsvp]

By the way,

 

Do others agree with not mixing ethernet cables on side A and B?

 

I would appreciate Mr Swenson input.

[PYP]

1 hour ago, Rsbrsvp said:

By the way,

 

Do others agree with not mixing ethernet cables on side A and B?

 

I would appreciate Mr Swenson input.

I haven't done that and it works just fine.  My main criterion for the A side is flexibility and for the B side sound.  In the end, experimentation in your own system is the only thing that will answer you question.  In my system, an opticalModule is before the eR, so the chain is: copper ethernet (from in-wall outlet) > oM > generic fiber > eR > "audiophile" ethernet > DAC.  My profile has the details, if interested.  

[Rsbrsvp]

I'm new to this so I really appreciate everyone's help.

 

Is optical module agreed  by all to be preferable to rj45 or is it not clear and not agreed upon?

 

What are the general sonic strengths and weaknesses of optical vs rj45?

[FIndingit]

I just obtained an Inakustik Exzellenz cat6, which is not a particularly expensive cable. It certainly seems to have a lower noise floor on the b side than my red Wireworld. 
 

Read that as a recommendation. 

[PYP]

30 minutes ago, Rsbrsvp said:

I'm new to this so I really appreciate everyone's help.

 

Is optical module agreed  by all to be preferable to rj45 or is it not clear and not agreed upon?

 

What are the general sonic strengths and weaknesses of optical vs rj45?

Have you read this review?  It addresses the effect of adding optical, etc.   My experience, and all I've read from user comments, agree that adding fiber is beneficial.  

 

 

 

[acousticsguru]

48 minutes ago, Rsbrsvp said:

I'm new to this so I really appreciate everyone's help.

 

Is optical module agreed  by all to be preferable to rj45 or is it not clear and not agreed upon?

 

What are the general sonic strengths and weaknesses of optical vs rj45?

Adding fibre may be beneficial in scenarios where the additional isolation is needed. The key word is "may". Remember there are two additional conversions/optical couplers involved - all else being equal, adding those cannot improve matters. It's a tradeoff, so the question is, do you have a RMI/RFI issue that needs too addressed? If not, you risk adding a little dullness to the sound without gaining anything in return.

 

Greetings from Switzerland, David.

[PYP]

15 minutes ago, acousticsguru said:

Adding fibre may be beneficial in scenarios where the additional isolation is needed. The key word is "may". Remember there are two additional conversions/optical couplers involved - all else being equal, adding those cannot improve matters. It's a tradeoff, so the question is, do you have a RMI/RFI issue that needs too addressed? If not, you risk adding a little dullness to the sound without gaining anything in return.

 

Greetings from Switzerland, David.

In my own case, I'm using one purpose-built converter for audiophile applications (powered by an LPS).  The effect is the opposite of dullness.  And I haven't read about others using fiber to/from their routers (no need for external converter) mentioning dullness.  But, as always, YMMV.  

[acousticsguru]

2 minutes ago, PYP said:

In my own case, I'm using one purpose-built converter for audiophile applications (powered by an LPS).  The effect is the opposite of dullness.  And I haven't read about others using fiber to/from their routers (no need for external converter) mentioning dullness.  But, as always, YMMV.  

In my system, with the Vivaldi stack, adding any gadget whatsoever tends to make the sound fractionally duller. Using the EtherREGEN with good cables is a worthwhile tradeoff as there's even less noise, which in turn means lesser modulation of low-level resolution, which in turn adds a bit to timbre and spaciousness, and even lesser listening fatigue than without. In short, it's beneficial, but if I didn't mainly listen to classical, some jazz and 70s (prog) rock, and comparatively little pop, I can see others might not like the slightly "calmer" and more relaxed sound. An audiophile acquaintance of mine said he could hardly tell a difference at all, and he had the EtherREGEN in a similar system for weeks if not months. So you're right, YMMV. That's why I find it difficult to trust "best Ethernet cable" recommendations etc. In a high-end system, all comes down to synergy, and in case of doubt, less is more.

 

Greetings from Switzerland, David.

[PYP]

21 minutes ago, acousticsguru said:

 So you're right, YMMV. That's why I find it difficult to trust "best Ethernet cable" recommendations etc. In a high-end system, all comes down to synergy, and in case of doubt, less is more.

Agreed.  And in addition to the different systems, there could be substantial differences in electrical power delivered to the home.  Not only region to region within a country, but among countries.  Trying to clean up the power is one area that I have found to be tricky and very equipment sensitive.  Some gear likes, for example, an isolation transformer.  Other gear sounds lifeless in that context.  

 

A few weeks ago, our LED lights began to blink on occasion.   Audio SQ was also not as good as usual, and that is unusual in my system which has consistent sound.  Not soon after, our power company came to our neighborhood to replace equipment. The blinking stopped and the audio system went back to normal.  Just an example of variation within ones own power system.  

[MartinT]

While I use a 5m MeiCord Ethernet cable on the A side from my 4G router, the B side uses a 12cm cat6 link cable with the ultraRendu right close to it.

[acousticsguru]

2 hours ago, PYP said:

Agreed.  And in addition to the different systems, there could be substantial differences in electrical power delivered to the home.  Not only region to region within a country, but among countries.  Trying to clean up the power is one area that I have found to be tricky and very equipment sensitive.  Some gear likes, for example, an isolation transformer.  Other gear sounds lifeless in that context.  

 

A few weeks ago, our LED lights began to blink on occasion.   Audio SQ was also not as good as usual, and that is unusual in my system which has consistent sound.  Not soon after, our power company came to our neighborhood to replace equipment. The blinking stopped and the audio system went back to normal.  Just an example of variation within ones own power system.  

I've travelled the U.S. and been to some audiophiles' homes, and been wondering if in general, (polluted) power is more of a concern, and if we (Europeans? Swiss?) may be privileged in this respect (I honestly do NOT know, just a thought, or an impression I got). I have nonetheless owned equipment that thrived on e.g. the use of a great mains filter, having said that, some, such as modern Spectral preamplifiers using Keith Johnson's "floating" PSU clearly sound worse whatever aftermarket gadget one throws at them and are best plugged into the wall. These are aspects of our hobby in which it is near-impossible to give or find advice on forums like this. I've been lucky to try lots and lots of gear, cables, tweaks etc., partly of course because I was asked to do so, free from the expectation bias that inevitably comes with investing one's hard-earned money, for better or worse. It's one of the reasons I rarely participate in forum discussions except to caution people to try for themselves, if at all possible. There's a limit to what one can tell or learn from others, and it's never going to replace first-hand experience.

 

Greetings from Switzerland, David.