The EtherREGEN thread for various network, cable, power experiences and experiments

[acousticsguru]

Might add the EtherREGEN is itself one of those products that I got to test in my system and that I would not have considered buying otherwise. Can't honestly say the white paper made much sense to me…

 

Greetings from Switzerland, David.

[GryphonGuy]

2 hours ago, acousticsguru said:

Might add the EtherREGEN is itself one of those products that I got to test in my system and that I would not have considered buying otherwise. Can't honestly say the white paper made much sense to me…

 

Greetings from Switzerland, David.

 

If you have tried different ethernet cables and can hear a difference in each cable's "presentation", then the EtherREGEN will definitely give you a better outcome because of the way it actively operates on the electrical signals in the ethernet transmission. If you cannot hear any difference between different categories of ethernet cables or different brands of the same category, your investment in an EtherREGEN may not be worth it for you.

I know that the EtherREGEN has a huge benefit in my system, so much so, that I have ordered another one so that my PC's audio network card and the digital audio router will both be operating behind an "A" to "B" cleaning service.

 

Regards

GG

[PYP]

10 minutes ago, GryphonGuy said:

I know that the EtherREGEN has a huge benefit in my system, so much so, that I have ordered another one so that my PC's audio network card and the digital audio router will both be operating behind an "A" to "B" cleaning service.

 

Looking forward to your findings with the second eR.   I'll be doing a similar experiment in March.  

[Rsbrsvp]

Regarding optical on side A I need counseling.

 

Simple optical 101 lesson please.

 

I buy a sonore optical module which connects both to my router by rj45 and then to the etherregen side A by optical cable and everything else remains the same?

 

Is this correct?

[GMG]

1 hour ago, Rsbrsvp said:

Regarding optical on side A I need counseling.

 

Simple optical 101 lesson please.

 

I buy a sonore optical module which connects both to my router by rj45 and then to the etherregen side A by optical cable and everything else remains the same?

 

Is this correct?

Yes this is correct 

just make sure to use matching and compatible modules and matching fiber. 
 

I use Finisar single mode: FTLF1318P2BTL or FTLF1318P3BTL

 

and cable:

30 Meter Singlemode Duplex Fiber... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00552NN8O?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

 

I also use 3db attenuators on the receiving side of each module: 

FLYPROFiber LC Attenuator... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0899XN6B5?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

[Rsbrsvp]

1 hour ago, GMG said:

Yes this is correct 

just make sure to use matching and compatible modules and matching fiber. 
 

I use Finisar single mode: FTLF1318P2BTL or FTLF1318P3BTL

 

and cable:

30 Meter Singlemode Duplex Fiber... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00552NN8O?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

 

I also use 3db attenuators on the receiving side of each module: 

FLYPROFiber LC Attenuator... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0899XN6B5?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

I don't understand where those huge termination plugs fit in the ether regen.

[GMG]

51 minutes ago, Rsbrsvp said:

I don't understand where those huge termination plugs fit in the ether regen.

They go in the slot labeled "SFP" on the etherregen and on the Sonore optical 

[Rsbrsvp]

The cable goes straight in the sonore and etherregen or first into the finisar module and the module then plugs into the sonore and etherregen?  Which means I need two modules..?

[GMG]

Module goes into the device and cable goes into the module. 
yes, you need 2 modules. 

[acousticsguru]

7 hours ago, Rsbrsvp said:

Regarding optical on side A I need counseling.

 

Simple optical 101 lesson please.

 

I buy a sonore optical module which connects both to my router by rj45 and then to the etherregen side A by optical cable and everything else remains the same?

 

Is this correct?

There are lots of recommendations as to which brand to choose (again, no use mixing and matching, use the same on both ends), but best to find a short-distance opto-coupler (identical modules, don't just buy one for the EtherREGEN because it comes without, whereas there's usually one included with the Sonore) that does not require attenuators.

 

Greetings from Switzerland, David.

[GMG]

34 minutes ago, acousticsguru said:

There are lots of recommendations as to which brand to choose (again, no use mixing and matching, use the same on both ends), but best to find a short-distance opto-coupler (identical modules, don't just buy one for the EtherREGEN because it comes without, whereas there's usually one included with the Sonore) that does not require attenuators.

 

Greetings from Switzerland, David.

single mode in theory should provide better  performance due to less Jitter. 
see post from John:

I switched from multi mode to single mode but hear no difference in sound quality 🙂

But I also only hear subtle improvements with power supplies, ER, etc. 

i like the tweaking anyway 😃

[MarkusBarkus]

@Rsbrsvp You said 101, so... 

 

As others have said, and you can search here for a lot of info on fiber optic usage in the audio chain. 
 

Boiled down: the wavelength of the transceivers (SFPs) you get must match at both ends. And the fiber cable should meet the same wavelength spec.

Although I have mixed brands of the same wavelength, it's probably better for you to keep things uniform to avoid possible issues and troubleshooting headaches.

 

Most people here seem to favor Single Mode (SM) fiber. Multimode (MM) also exists. MM will usually be orange; SM probably yellow. 
 

The differences are in the internal construction of the cable, the wavelength of the light, and the type of laser used to send that light.

 

MM is rated for shorter distances (a few 100 meters, IIRC) while SM will go for miles.

Both work well for audio. I have runs of MM, SM, Cat6a and hot-rodded ethernet cable for testing. I didn't hear a dif SM or MM. It's only ~35'/12m cable run.

 

Some speculate that using SM modules requires attenuation, although many use them without it, myself included. I don't need any more plugs and devices in the chain.

Will the receiving SFP become saturated with too much light? Perhaps theoretically. Practically??

 

If you're not running a multi-kilometer link, you could use either, in the event you have trouble sourcing SM.

 

Just be sure it all matches wavelength. As noted by others: Cable=>SFP=>device on both ends. 
 

The SFPs are small, so handling them may take a little practice.
 

To install, you have to give them a firm push into the device "outlet."

 

Use that little metal "bail" to pull them out of devices. 
 

For the cable, you have to remove the little plastic covers on the ends of the connectors. These protect the actual glass cable ends. Chance of dropping one of them and losing it behind your gear is 50/50. 😉
 

Don't touch the ends of the cable, as fingerprint smudges are not helpful here. And your next post will be asking about how to polish fiber optic cable.

 

Also, the cable connectors can be a little finicky. You have to depress the top little levers to insert into the SFP. Opposite to remove: Depress and pull. 
 

Good luck. Lots of info here and people to help. 

I use Planet SFPs:

Cable for these SFPs:

Used in OM:

Open SFP outlet in EReGen:

[PYP]

10 hours ago, Rsbrsvp said:

Regarding optical on side A I need counseling.

 

Simple optical 101 lesson please.

 

I buy a sonore optical module which connects both to my router by rj45 and then to the etherregen side A by optical cable and everything else remains the same?

 

Is this correct?

Correct.  I suggest you keep it simple.  The opticalModule already has an SFP transceiver installed.  See info here:

https://sonore.us/opticalModule-Deluxe.html

 

So, the easiest installation is to leave that one in place and buy a matching transceiver that you will install in the eR.

 

I use one of these for the eR:  https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00U77VPX2/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

The optical cable can purchased from Sonore but it costs $50.  I use this one instead:  https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00T5796DQ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

You can certainly try other stuff, but this combination works.  Just FYI.  @MarkusBarkus gave you helpful hints about installation in his post above.  You might also want to google installing SFP transceiver if you want other illustrations of the process.  

 

I never handled fiber before adding the opticalModule and found it an easy installation.    

 

One tip for installing the transceiver in the eR:  you need to make sure you press it firmly all the way into the "cage." 

 

For the opticalModule, don't forget to remove the protective film on the exterior prior to operation.  

 

 

 

 

[Rsbrsvp]

Actually my next question is on cable length.

 

Longer seems to be better, but does my sonore need to be far away from the etherregen or can it be a meter away and I can just bunch up the cable?

 

Next question.  My ether regen in this setup would receive an optical cable on side A which originates at my router.  But on side A I also have my server (a NUC) conneted to the etherregen with a rj45.  My question is will this connection ruin the benifit of optical connetion?

[PYP]

5 minutes ago, Rsbrsvp said:

Next question.  My ether regen in this setup would receive an optical cable on side A which originates at my router.  But on side A I also have my server (a NUC) conneted to the etherregen with a rj45.  My question is will this connection ruin the benifit of optical connetion?

My suggestion about equipment assumed that copper ethernet would feed the opticalModule as it does in my setup.  If you have fiber from your router, you don't need the opticalModule.  You can run fiber to the eR but need to purchase a transceiver for the eR, in which case that transceiver needs to match the one in your router.  

[Rsbrsvp]

Perhaps I was  not clear.

 

My modem has only rj45 out.  I need the OM to convert to optical to get signal to etherregen side A which then connet to my summus endpoint .

 

However,  my Intel NUC server is also connected to side A of the etnerregen by rj45.  Will this connection ruin the benifit of the optical connection ?

[MarkusBarkus]

Hello @Rsbrsvp. I rifled back through your questions to see what I may have missed. 
 

You are getting good info re: adding fiber optic to your system, but I think the community is responding to individual questions, but without a top-level statement of your objective, and maybe a network diagram. 

 

Maybe we could help more with a diagram...even if you sketch something on paper and take a pic. That make sense?

 

Apologies to others if you get the big picture here. I feel like the picture is changing a bit, so our (my) replies aren't refined enough to help much. Cheers... 

[Rsbrsvp]

You are all so kind.

 

I am not very technologically advanced so I don't know how to get a picture on this thread but I will describe what I have setup currently.

 

I have a modem/router combination.  That is how they make them in Israel.  It is connected to my phone jack.  It has four rj45 sockets.  One of them i use with a rj45 ethernet cable to connect to side A of etherregen.  From side B a second RJ45 cable leads to my summus endpoint.

 

Now I also have an intel NUC used as a server connected by rj45 direct to side A of the etherregen.  This connection is not necessary because I airplay amazon HD music from the NUC but I find the ethernet cable connection between NUC and side A of etherregen noticeably Improves sound, even with the cheapest cat5e cable I got from the phone company.

 

I realize I could just airplay amazon music from my iPad but the pc amazon app allows exclusive wasapi mode while the tablet version does not.  In addition I never stream direct from Amazon but rather download the music to the external SSD of my NUC.  I have always found that music played from my SSD sounds noticeably better than direct  streaming.  I compared tidal streaming direct to amazon music from my ssd and found amazon from ssd superior. I do not believe Tidal allows downloads.

 

I have on order a paul hynes sr7 turbo dual rail power supply.  I thought to use it on my summus and etherregen.

 

I also have a mutec ref10 se120 clock.  It is connected to my dac and also to the etherregen.

 

Any advice would be appreciated..

[PYP]

13 minutes ago, Rsbrsvp said:

 

 

I have on order a paul hynes sr7 turbo dual rail power supply.  I thought to use it on my summus and etherregen.

 

I also have a mutec ref10 se120 clock.  It is connected to my dac and also to the etherregen.

 

Any advice would be appreciated..

An eR with external clock and excellent power supply is going to sound great.  Suggest you start there and fully absorb the benefits before adding fiber.  That way you know what each addition adds to the sound.  Just one opinion.  

 

Suggest you get opinions about whether connecting the DAC and eR to that particular power supply will defeat the eR's moat. What I don't understand about leakage currents could fill several large volumes.  

[Rsbrsvp]

For sure I have absolutely NO intention whatsoever to go optical for at least three months.  I am taking lessons from you guys just to get ready.  I agree that the er with sr7 turbo power supply and mutec clock may be all I need for a while.

 

My sr7 power supply is dual rail galvanically isolated each rail from the other so I see no problem in connecting it to my endpoint and er with separate rails..

[acousticsguru]

4 hours ago, Rsbrsvp said:

Actually my next question is on cable length.

 

Longer seems to be better, but does my sonore need to be far away from the etherregen or can it be a meter away and I can just bunch up the cable?

 

Next question.  My ether regen in this setup would receive an optical cable on side A which originates at my router.  But on side A I also have my server (a NUC) conneted to the etherregen with a rj45.  My question is will this connection ruin the benifit of optical connetion?

To answer one question specifically: yes, you can "bunch up" an optical cable, including up to several kilometers, no difference. Since there's no electricity, there's no inductance (which is why you absolutely cannot "bunch up" electrical cables).

 

Greetings from Switzerland, David.

[Mike Rubin]

3 minutes ago, acousticsguru said:

To answer one question specifically: yes, you can "bunch up" an optical cable, including up to several kilometers, no difference. Since there's no electricity, there's no inductance (which is why you absolutely cannot "bunch up" electrical cables).

 

Greetings from Switzerland, David.

FWIW, I “bunched up” a several meter-long single mode optical cable for awhile, until I got tired of managing its hanging off the back of my cabinet like a dead weight.  I then replaced it with one that is just a few inches long.  My hearing could be better and my system isn’t the most resolving on earth, but I am not deaf and my system isn’t horrible, so my conclusion was that there are better places to place tweak dollars than on longer optical cables.  I also am happier to have a cable that fits into the space intended for it.  
 

I should point out that I am not using attenuators.  Maybe that’s relevant in the calculus, as well.

[acousticsguru]

22 minutes ago, Mike Rubin said:

FWIW, I “bunched up” a several meter-long single mode optical cable for awhile, until I got tired of managing its hanging off the back of my cabinet like a dead weight.  I then replaced it with one that is just a few inches long.  My hearing could be better and my system isn’t the most resolving on earth, but I am not deaf and my system isn’t horrible, so my conclusion was that there are better places to place tweak dollars than on longer optical cables.  I also am happier to have a cable that fits into the space intended for it.  
 

I should point out that I am not using attenuators.  Maybe that’s relevant in the calculus, as well.

Good decision! I have no idea why people claim a longer one would sound better? It's an optical cable. I know all the usual reasons when it comes to reflections off terminations in e.g. digital cables (electrical), but optical, no clue what difference that would make. Maybe they're hoping the cable itself would work as an attenuator (if so, how many kilometers are we talking about?), in which case I'd say they picked the wrong SFP module to begin with…

 

Greetings from Switzerland, David.

[Superdad]

1 hour ago, acousticsguru said:

how many kilometers are we talking about?

 

Well one of these could be stood up and used as a dining room table. Just don't trip on the fiber when you get up after a meal. 

 

P.S. Nice to see you around here again David! Hope you and yours are well.

 

[MarkusBarkus]

1 hour ago, acousticsguru said:

 I have no idea why people claim a longer one would sound better? It's an optical cable.

I have read comments that state some people use the extra miles of cable as you suggest: for attenuation. 
 

I believe the technical term for this is an "optical illusion."