Steve Hoffman's Ongaku

[sphinxsix]

Simple facts. A week ago Steve Hoffman had created a thread about $140k Audio Note Ongaku SET amp he was going to get. He has been quite active on it ever since praising Ongaku and Audio Note in general.

http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/audio-note-uk-ongaku-kensei-211-valve-single-ended-triode-balanced-amplifier-now-up-running.685663/

Some time later (page 8 of the thread) he admitted that the amp was a GIFT from Audio Note.

http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/audio-note-uk-ongaku-kensei-211-valve-single-ended-triode-balanced-amplifier-now-up-running.685663/page-8#post-18517942

Furthermore yesterday he 'pinned' (!) a new thread which is a list of Audio Note UK AN-E speakers versions (he himself uses one of them - the AN-E/SPx HE Alnico to be exact) atop the Audio Hardware forum.

http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/audio-note-uk-an-e-speaker-choices-from-cheapest-to-most-expensive-a-handy-and-useful-chart.765769/

 

What do you think guys - will the Steve Hoffman's Ongaku ($140k is obviously a retail price) prove to be a good investment for Audio Note.?

I'm pretty sure it will

[firedog]

45 minutes ago, sphinxsix said:

Simple facts. A week ago Steve Hoffman had created a thread about $140k Audio Note Ongaku SET amp he was going to get. He has been quite active on it ever since praising Ongaku and Audio Note in general.

http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/audio-note-uk-ongaku-kensei-211-valve-single-ended-triode-balanced-amplifier-now-up-running.685663/

Some time later (page 8 of the thread) he admitted that the amp was a GIFT from Audio Note.

http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/audio-note-uk-ongaku-kensei-211-valve-single-ended-triode-balanced-amplifier-now-up-running.685663/page-8#post-18517942

Furthermore yesterday he 'pinned' (!) a new thread which is a list of Audio Note UK AN-E speakers versions (he himself uses one of them - the AN-E/SPx HE Alnico to be exact) atop the Audio Hardware forum.

http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/audio-note-uk-an-e-speaker-choices-from-cheapest-to-most-expensive-a-handy-and-useful-chart.765769/

 

What do you think guys - will the Steve Hoffman's Ongaku ($140k is obviously a retail price) prove to be a good investment for Audio Note.?

I'm pretty sure it will

Well if retail is 140K, direct manufacturer cost is probably $35k or less.

Sounds like they've already gotten enough free advertising directed straight to their target market to pay for what it cost them.

[semente]

REG Comments on the Ongaku - TAS issue 79 May 1992

Every change that has ever happened in audio has had its opponents. The invention of recorded music was bemoaned by no less a personage than John Phillip Sousa, who foresaw, quite correctly, that recordings would diminish the number of amateur performers. And every subsequent development, perceived as an improvement by the many, was decried as a retrogression by a few. The replacement of acoustic recording by electrical, the change from 78 to 33 rpm, the development of the tape recorder, the advent of stereo, the rise of transistor electronics, and of course, the supplanting of analogue by digital--all had their opponents. And these opponents are still with us: Monophiles flourish, in England especially. Many musicians continue to admire the sound of 78s more than their nominally higher fidelity successors. And, strangely enough, the most exotic group of all, those who advocate not just tubes, but single-ended triode tube circuitry--they, too, are still with us.

http://www.regonaudio.com/ongaku.html

 

 

REG Responds to comment from the ONGAKU distributor - TAS issue 82 October 1992

http://www.regonaudio.com/Response Ongaku.html

[Brinkman Ship]

So let's look at this from a few angles:

 

-First, it still does not offend anyone that a multi millionaire receives over a half a million dollars of Audio Note, Grado, and PS Audio gear in exchange for shilling it on his forum, yet peddles for donations to run the website?

 

-Second, if there are any accountants that can verify this, but it is my understanding that any "gifts" from manufacturers must be declared as income on a tax return.

 

-In my PERSONAL opinion, Audio Note is a cult, and he and the US importer, are just preaching to the converted.

 

Much more to say later...

[semente]

There's a massive cult in one of the UK forums. The other forum is dominated by flat-earthers who revere Linn and above all Naim.

 

This is Peter Qvortrup when asked which competitor he most admired?

"I like Naim. I don't like their sound, but I do like like the way they operate as a company, they way their product build up to a full system with upgrade routes pre-planned, they way they communicate and treat their customers. Naim is in an enviable position as their customers are very loyal, just like Audio Note UK customers!"

 

Mon€¥, it's a crim€
$har€ it fair£¥ but don't tak€ a $lic€ of my pi€

 

 

[Jud]

11 minutes ago, Brinkman Ship said:

 

-First, it still does not offend anyone that a multi millionaire receives over a half a million dollars of Audio Note, Grado, and PS Audio gear in exchange for shilling it on his forum, yet peddles for donations to run the website?

 

But if he sold the stuff to get money (wonder who would buy it anywhere near the retail price?), what would he listen with? ? 

 

I don't waste my time paying enough attention to such goings-on to be offended.  This is hardly the most important example in the world of people taking advantage of others, and unfortunately you can't just tell them to snap out of it.

 

Meanwhile, my own experience with SH is limited to the purchase of a couple of CDs on which he's generally acknowledged to've done a good job of production, one being Pet Sounds, the other a Buddy Holly disc I found in a used record and CD store for $3.

[Hugo9000]

He isn't a "journalist," nor a politician, so I don't really care what freebies manufacturers wish to give him.  I'm certain I don't own or listen to any music that he's been involved with, so he doesn't concern me in that area, either. 

 

Regarding his website, he may have lots of forum users who WANT to be able to contribute financially, although he may not NEED any assistance if he's indeed a multimillionaire, and his forum costs are so low.  In my own limited experience, I created a forum for my guild in an online video game I used to play, and although it only cost me around $100 for the site hosting and tiny bandwidth we needed, nearly all of the members wanted to contribute money for the forum, although it was absolutely not needed (and I declined their kind offers).  People often want to contribute to sites that they get useful information, enjoyment, social activity, etc. from.  I don't see it as a big deal, especially since it's purely voluntary.  Even if it were a paid-membership-only site, I wouldn't care, as anyone who objects certainly needn't bother with the site at all.

[Brinkman Ship]

25 minutes ago, Jud said:

 

But if he sold the stuff to get money (wonder who would buy it anywhere near the retail price?), what would he listen with? ? 

 

I don't waste my time paying enough attention to such goings-on to be offended.  This is hardly the most important example in the world of people taking advantage of others, and unfortunately you can't just tell them to snap out of it.

 

Meanwhile, my own experience with SH is limited to the purchase of a couple of CDs on which he's generally acknowledged to've done a good job of production, one being Pet Sounds, the other a Buddy Holly disc I found in a used record and CD store for $3.

well, that is funny, because if a lowly reviewer is suspected of even a whiff of pay for play, or impropriety, the outrage is is so thick you could cut it with a knife..said reviewer is raked over the coals and savaged.

 

So clearly outrage here is very selective.

[Brinkman Ship]

4 minutes ago, Hugo9000 said:

He isn't a "journalist," nor a politician, so I don't really care what freebies manufacturers wish to give him.  I'm certain I don't own or listen to any music that he's been involved with, so he doesn't concern me in that area, either. 

 

Regarding his website, he may have lots of forum users who WANT to be able to contribute financially, although he may not NEED any assistance if he's indeed a multimillionaire, and his forum costs are so low.  In my own limited experience, I created a forum for my guild in an online video game I used to play, and although it only cost me around $100 for the site hosting and tiny bandwidth we needed, nearly all of the members wanted to contribute money for the forum, although it was absolutely not needed (and I declined their kind offers).  People often want to contribute to sites that they get useful information, enjoyment, social activity, etc. from.  I don't see it as a big deal, especially since it's purely voluntary.  Even if it were a paid-membership-only site, I wouldn't care, as anyone who objects certainly needn't bother with the site at all.

..actually..he DOES claim to be a "reviewer"..promising "reviews" of all the free gear he gets...

[Hugo9000]

...and most actresses praise the designers who loan them gowns or jewelry to wear to the Academy Awards or to the Cannes Festival, it's quite routine for celebrities (however minor) to give endorsements for products they receive free (whether a loan or a gift).  Look at all the crap celebrities push on facebook, twitter, etc.  I doubt that Melissa Joan Hart pays for those crappy Nutrisystem meals she mentions in her social media posts.  lol

 

[Brinkman Ship]

Just now, Hugo9000 said:

...and most actresses praise the designers who loan them gowns or jewelry to wear to the Academy Awards or to the Cannes Festival, it's quite routine for celebrities (however minor) to give endorsements for products they receive free (whether a loan or a gift).  Look at all the crap celebrities push on facebook, twitter, etc.  I doubt that Melissa Joan Hart pays for those crappy Nutrisystem meals she mentions in her social media posts.  lol

 

..the justification spin..begins...

 

and I would love to know how a forum costs "$5000"...they do not host any files, they do not pay moderators..

[mrvco]

13 minutes ago, Hugo9000 said:

He isn't a "journalist," nor a politician, so I don't really care what freebies manufacturers wish to give him.  I'm certain I don't own or listen to any music that he's been involved with, so he doesn't concern me in that area, either. 

 

Regarding his website, he may have lots of forum users who WANT to be able to contribute financially, although he may not NEED any assistance if he's indeed a multimillionaire, and his forum costs are so low.  In my own limited experience, I created a forum for my guild in an online video game I used to play, and although it only cost me around $100 for the site hosting and tiny bandwidth we needed, nearly all of the members wanted to contribute money for the forum, although it was absolutely not needed (and I declined their kind offers).  People often want to contribute to sites that they get useful information, enjoyment, social activity, etc. from.  I don't see it as a big deal, especially since it's purely voluntary.  Even if it were a paid-membership-only site, I wouldn't care, as anyone who objects certainly needn't bother with the site at all.

 

I have no idea the intent is and really don't care, but It would make sense if the fundraising were meant to insure that the website, forums and community are able to persist after SH is gone.

 

[Hugo9000]

1 minute ago, Brinkman Ship said:

..the justification spin..begins...

 

and I would love to know how a forum costs "$5000"...they do not host any files, they do not pay moderators..

Justification spin?

 

Are you for real?

 

How much traffic do they get?  If you're so concerned, look into the site's numbers, and get quotes from web hosting services to find out what the actual costs may be.

 

He gets no money from my pocket, and as I wrote earlier, I neither own nor listen to anything he's been involved in.  He's not even a blip on the radar with regard to rich cheapskates in this world, so I don't understand why anyone would post repeatedly about this "issue."  And while outrage over skinflint losers isn't a zero sum game, there are more important things to worry about.  I suppose you could try to organize a march to protest, though, you might get a few like-minded people to join you.  Although I'm sure hardly anyone in the world even has the faintest notion who he is.  I never heard of Hoffman until that shill posted about having a thread at that forum regarding his (the shill's, not Hoffman's) "articles" on MQA.

 

[Brinkman Ship]

7 minutes ago, Hugo9000 said:

Justification spin?

 

Are you for real?

 

How much traffic do they get?  If you're so concerned, look into the site's numbers, and get quotes from web hosting services to find out what the actual costs may be.

 

He gets no money from my pocket, and as I wrote earlier, I neither own nor listen to anything he's been involved in.  He's not even a blip on the radar with regard to rich cheapskates in this world, so I don't understand why anyone would post repeatedly about this "issue."  And while outrage over skinflint losers isn't a zero sum game, there are more important things to worry about.  I suppose you could try to organize a march to protest, though, you might get a few like-minded people to join you.  Although I'm sure hardly anyone in the world even has the faintest notion who he is.  I never heard of Hoffman until that shill posted about having a thread at that forum regarding his (the shill's, not Hoffman's) "articles" on MQA.

 

 

 "He's not even a blip on the radar with regard to rich cheapskates in this world.."

 

I will give you that...

 

[semente]

10 minutes ago, Hugo9000 said:

Justification spin?

 

Are you for real?

 

How much traffic do they get?  If you're so concerned, look into the site's numbers, and get quotes from web hosting services to find out what the actual costs may be.

 

He gets no money from my pocket, and as I wrote earlier, I neither own nor listen to anything he's been involved in.  He's not even a blip on the radar with regard to rich cheapskates in this world, so I don't understand why anyone would post repeatedly about this "issue."  And while outrage over skinflint losers isn't a zero sum game, there are more important things to worry about.  I suppose you could try to organize a march to protest, though, you might get a few like-minded people to join you.  Although I'm sure hardly anyone in the world even has the faintest notion who he is.  I never heard of Hoffman until that shill posted about having a thread at that forum regarding his (the shill's, not Hoffman's) "articles" on MQA.

 

 

One of the owners of a now defunct forum got a really, really, but really good deal on a pair of 801 Nautilus from the distributor, speakers which he probably couldn't afford at retail price. The amount of shilling he made for the company and the way he silenced its critics was just unbelievable.

 

I don't know who this Hoffman is but I generally condemn this kind of spineless behaviour.

[Hugo9000]

"Reviewers" are not journalists.  "Reviews" by random people should always be taken with a grain of salt.  Look at the "reviews" on amazon.com if you want to be outraged.  Billions of dollars are involved in that nonsense.  Ranked "reviewers," the amount of free things they receive every day, etc, the "Vine Voices," etc.

 

Writers at actual magazines are still equated at some level with journalists in many people's minds, and some of those writers talk a lot about "editorial policies," disclosures, conflicts of interest, etc, which serves to foster the idea that it is journalism.*

 

Some random person on Amazon, or a person writing on his own vanity website (isn't that what Hoffman's site is?  And he certainly doesn't try to hide that it's a vanity site, as it's named after him! lol) is hardly equivalent to a magazine writer, let alone a journalist.

 

*Edited to add, I don't believe it denigrates a good writer at an audio magazine to refer to him as an entertainment writer, rather than a journalist.  It takes skill and creativity to write entertainingly about any topic.  And certainly, it's still possible to be informative, and offer a valuable service to readers while not actually being a "journalist."  So I mean no insult whatsoever to a writer such as Kal Rubinson by suggesting that he is an entertainment writer/columnist.  I've enjoyed his writing for years.

[Brinkman Ship]

3 minutes ago, semente said:

 

One of the owners of a now defunct forum got a really, really, but really good deal on a pair of 801 Nautilus from the distributor, speakers which he probably couldn't afford at retail price. The amount of shilling he made for the company and the way he silenced its critics was just unbelievable.

 

I don't know who this Hoffman is but I generally condemn this kind of spineless behaviour.

Spineless would be kind in describing Hoffman's shilling. If you so much as dare discuss competing products, gently question AN designs or value, you get the boot, hundreds have....

 

You want to see an example of how he shills..check this cable thread..

http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/sale-at-schmitt-custom-audio-cables.764984/

 

"Great cables, highly recommended by me!"

 

And on the their website, they state front and center that Hoffman used these cables to master

a few albums.

 

When a poster asks about the products, Hoffman offers this:

 

"Just chat with him, on Facebook or whatever. Tell him what you want. Drop my name."

 

 

[semente]

18 minutes ago, Hugo9000 said:

"Reviewers" are not journalists.

 

Perhaps the reason why some reviewers fall pray is fear of legal prosecution. But we consumers should fight back.

If we were organised maybe we would have a chance.

 

In Portugal the Consumer Protection Association tests all manner of goods and products. They once published a comparison between half a dozen standmount speakers. These were tested for build quality, power handling stress test and frequency response then rated accordingly. No subjective nonsense. Simple and effective.

 

I also remember buying a Spanish Auto Magazine in the 80s which provided engine performance measurements as well as track tests for speed/acceleration, breaking and fuel consumption.

[NOMBEDES]

Reviewers often get swag (free stuff) or "industry accommodation" prices  (apx half off).

Not just the big name guys.  Even rather minor reviews can score a good deal.  As long as we acknowledge the system is a minor fraud, we are forewarned and forearmed.

 

I read reviews to learn where the buttons and knobs are.....sonic impressions are just BS.

I doubt there is much relationship between the reviewers listening room and mine.....or yours.

[Jud]

2 hours ago, Brinkman Ship said:

well, that is funny, because if a lowly reviewer is suspected of even a whiff of pay for play, or impropriety, the outrage is is so thick you could cut it with a knife..said reviewer is raked over the coals and savaged.

 

So clearly outrage here is very selective.

 

Well, it isn't that I'm selectively outraged at the reviewer, and not at SH.  It's that I don't care at all about any of it.  ?  I don't read equipment reviews, I don't read SH's forum(s).

 

However, I have no argument with anyone who *does* wish to be outraged.  ? 

[mansr]

Such behaviour should have you raged all the way out.

[Jud]

10 minutes ago, mansr said:

Such behaviour should have you raged all the way out.

 

In today's world I have to meter outrage.  Mistreatment of children I reserve for spending time and emotion on, and there are other things I am concerned about as well; stuff to do with hobbies (unless we are talking about hunting endangered species), not so much.

[daverich4]

4 hours ago, Brinkman Ship said:

 

-First, it still does not offend anyone that a multi millionaire receives over a half a million dollars of Audio Note, Grado, and PS Audio gear in exchange for shilling it on his forum, yet peddles for donations to run the website?

 

Much more to say later...

 

I wonder if you would be less offended if you simply stopped going to his site? Why don’t you give that a try and let us know how it turns out.  

[diecaster]

4 hours ago, Brinkman Ship said:

-First, it still does not offend anyone that a multi millionaire receives over a half a million dollars of Audio Note, Grado, and PS Audio gear in exchange for shilling it on his forum, yet peddles for donations to run the website?

 

Your jealousy is showing and it really is not becoming.

[Ralf11]

the real point here is the mis-leading of consumers, and it is relevant to audiophiles

 

irrelevant issues to this site would be end. species hunting, child welfare, and who set one of Betsy DeVoss's 40 yachts adrift in the Great Lakes; however, what stereo systems sh has on her 40 yachts is relevant, just like the effects of digital hash on child welfare