16 bit files almost unlistenable now...

[gmgraves]

3 minutes ago, danadam said:

So if that didn't change then technically even with lifetime subscription you are still renting. You only have a promise that you will own it if the company goes under.

 

Yeah. you'll certainly own it when there is nobody left to collect the "rent". 

 

4 minutes ago, danadam said:

In another words, what's the difference? To me it is: does it work without internet connection or not?

No, Roon doesn't require the internet to work, but it does rely on it for some features. If they went under, certainly that part of the program that does require the Internet would, of course, disappear. 

[mansr]

16 minutes ago, danadam said:

So if that didn't change then technically even with lifetime subscription you are still renting. You only have a promise that you will own it if the company goes under.

“Is there not promise of rain?” Ling Tan asked suddenly out of darkness. There had been need of rain for many days. “Only a promise,” Lao Er said. -- Pearl S. Buck, Dragon Seed

[semente]

1 hour ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

The one part that can't be purchased is all the licensed material that makes Roon so compelling. As you know Roon pulls in all kinds of images and metadata. Even if one purchases the lifetime subscription for $500, it doesn't guarantee the app will function as it does now in the future. 

 

Not a big deal for most people, but something to consider. 

 

And don't you need to add HQ Player to get the best sound quality?

[The Computer Audiophile]

13 minutes ago, semente said:

 

And don't you need to add HQ Player to get the best sound quality?

Best is a subjective term, best left to other to decide :~)

[PeterSt]

28 minutes ago, semente said:

And don't you need to add HQ Player to get the best sound quality?

 

Oops. I wasn't aware that I need that !

Do I ?

 

[Jud]

2 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

The one part that can't be purchased is all the licensed material that makes Roon so compelling. As you know Roon pulls in all kinds of images and metadata. Even if one purchases the lifetime subscription for $500, it doesn't guarantee the app will function as it does now in the future. 

 

Not a big deal for most people, but something to consider. 

 

I bought a "lifetime" subscription to XM satellite radio in the early days when they were wanting money.  About 2 years later I bought a new car, and at that point Sirius XM was relatively flush and didn't need to worry.  They tried to tell me my "lifetime" subscription was for the "lifetime" of my ownership of the original vehicle for which I first got service.

 

"Owning" something tends to discourage such foolishness on the part of the vendor.  (It doesn't eliminate it entirely, as with Amazon and some Kindle books.)

[danadam]

2 hours ago, gmgraves said:

Yeah. you'll certainly own it when there is nobody left to collect the "rent". 

 

No, Roon doesn't require the internet to work, but it does rely on it for some features. If they went under, certainly that part of the program that does require the Internet would, of course, disappear. 

Are you saying that it still provides some features even when you are logged out? I don't know, I don't use Roon, but those answer seem to suggest otherwise:

From Running Roon without WiFi or an Internet Connection:

Quote

 

Tekl: Does the liftime license also need occasional connections?

 

Yes, of course. If it didn’t, that would be a loophole for pirates.

 

Tekl: What happens when Roon can’t connect?

 

It will log you out of Roon.

 

Tekl: Will it be unusable?

Yes.

 

 

From CORE Functionality OFF LINE-aka No Internet:

Quote

The number is 30 days. Roon software requires an internet connection, but supports going offline for up to 30 days. This is a core part of our license checking system. You may not be able to see how this works but the pirates can.

 

[audiventory]

51 minutes ago, Jud said:

I bought a "lifetime" subscription

 

I can't understand how to fund development, researching, make product better and support it with "lifetime" subscription.

[diecaster]

1 minute ago, audiventory said:

 

I can't understand how to fund development, researching, make product better and support it with "lifetime" subscription.

 

They do not plan on offering the lifetime subscription in perpetuity. Once that subscription is removed, the yearly subscription will be the only option. I suspect as soon as enough people avail themselves of the lifetime subscription, it will be pulled. What is "enough"? Only the Roon higher ups know that.

[gmgraves]

10 minutes ago, danadam said:

Are you saying that it still provides some features even when you are logged out? I don't know, I don't use Roon, but those answer seem to suggest otherwise:

From Running Roon without WiFi or an Internet Connection:

All I remember from my trial is that Roon goes out on the internet to get things like album art and other meta-data. It doesn't use a web browser, but it does need an internet connection. But then iTunes has to go get those things off the internet too if you don't buy your music from the iTunes store (and who does that? iTunes bought music sounds wretched!)and rip it from your CD collection. Of course even if you do buy your music from Apple, you need an internet connection for that as well. 

 

17 minutes ago, danadam said:

The number is 30 days. Roon software requires an internet connection, but supports going offline for up to 30 days. This is a core part of our license checking system. You may not be able to see how this works but the pirates can.

See, now that, I didn't know. I only used the trial version for about a week and didn't know that you can only go 30 days without an internet connection before Roon cuts you off at the ankles (or whatever they do). 

[gmgraves]

17 minutes ago, audiventory said:

 

I can't understand how to fund development, researching, make product better and support it with "lifetime" subscription.

Believe me, they don't rely on lifetime "subscriptions" for their cash-flow. I suspect most customers pay yearly (do they allow that $100/year to be paid monthly?). 

[mansr]

3 minutes ago, gmgraves said:

See, now that, I didn't know. I only used the trial version for about a week and didn't know that you can only go 30 days without an internet connection before Roon cuts you off at the ankles (or whatever they do). 

It's called DRM, and there's a reason we don't like it.

[semente]

1 hour ago, PeterSt said:

 

Oops. I wasn't aware that I need that !

Do I ?

 

 

Do you use Roon's processing engine?

[Jud]

3 hours ago, audiventory said:

 

I can't understand how to fund development, researching, make product better and support it with "lifetime" subscription.

 

It's a funding mechanism when a company is starting out and needs a lot of capital quickly, to expand in order to gain critical market share and visibility.

 

So XM offered "lifetime" subscriptions (can't remember whether they were $300 or $500) when a regular subscription was $12 a month to get capital to build its business.  Then as @diecaster predicts regarding Roon, when XM had sufficient capital they no longer offered lifetime subscriptions.  Once your business has the needed capital, you're correct, Yuri, a lifetime subscription is no longer desirable.

[Andyman]

Hello. I’m Andy. I’m looking for the “16 bit files almost unlistenable now...” thread?

[Rt66indierock]

1 minute ago, Andyman said:

Hello. I’m Andy. I’m looking for the “16 bit files almost unlistenable now...” thread?

 

Sorry Andy threads go where the spirits take them. 

[diecaster]

2 minutes ago, Andyman said:

Hello. I’m Andy. I’m looking for the “16 bit files almost unlistenable now...” thread?

 

The 16-bit files being almost unlistenable idea was debunked.....

[Jud]

4 minutes ago, Andyman said:

Hello. I’m Andy. I’m looking for the “16 bit files almost unlistenable now...” thread?

 

This is page 18, and it was only a 16 bit thread. 

[Ralf11]

upsampling

[Andyman]

Fair enough.

 

I rented Roon for a year. Everything it did, it did very well. But for me (admittedly not using its multi zone capabilities etc.) there were no must-haves to warrant the cost. I suspect many will think likewise once the honeymoon period wears off and predict problems with their business model. Back to A+ upgraded to v3. 

[gmgraves]

7 hours ago, mansr said:

It's called DRM, and there's a reason we don't like it.

OK, maybe I'm being a bit dense here, but could you explain what a policy of only allowing a user to access Roon without a Internet connection for 30 days before shutting them down has to do with Digital Rights Management?  

[diecaster]

19 minutes ago, gmgraves said:

OK, maybe I'm being a bit dense here, but could you explain what a policy of only allowing a user to access Roon without a Internet connection for 30 days before shutting them down has to do with Digital Rights Management?  

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_rights_management#DRM_server_and_Internet_outages

[R1200CL]

9 hours ago, gmgraves said:

Believe me, they don't rely on lifetime "subscriptions" for their cash-flow. I suspect most customers pay yearly (do they allow that $100/year to be paid monthly?). 

 

Just to be clear what your paying for:

 

[PeterSt]

 

 

11 hours ago, PeterSt said:

12 hours ago, semente said:

And don't you need to add HQ Player to get the best sound quality?

 

 

10 hours ago, semente said:

11 hours ago, PeterSt said:

 

Oops. I wasn't aware that I need that !

Do I ?

 

 

Do you use Roon's processing engine?

 

No ? Why would I (or anyone) need that ? (question is serious - nothing sarcastic)

 

 

[firedog]

11 hours ago, audiventory said:

 

I can't understand how to fund development, researching, make product better and support it with "lifetime" subscription.

I'm guessing it was a good way for them to pull in more cash at the start. Maybe they won't offer it forever.

 

I got a lifetime subscription with a "Christmas discount" their first year (no longer available), so it pretty much has paid itself off already and I'll be getting Roon for "free" from the end of the year.  I think I made a good deal for myself. 

 

 Sure on these types of things you take a small risk, but even at the full price of $499, you would be getting close to your break even point in another year if you jumped in at the start,  and as long as they stay in business your yearly average cost just keeps going down.