EtherREGEN: The long development thread. [Some Gen2 dev. pics and update starting on page 92.]

[tboooe]

On 1/15/2019 at 11:51 PM, JohnSwenson said:

As far as the clock noise attenuation goes there are two domains: one has the 4 RJ45 jacks and the SFP cage. The other side has the 5th RJ45 jack.

 

So going from any of the 4 jacks or SFP cage to the 5th jack blocks the clock noise. Going from the 5th jack to any of the 4 jacks or the SFP cage blocks the clock noise. Going from a 4 jack to another 4 jack does NOT block the clock noise and going from a 4 jack to the SFP cage does NOT block the clock noise. So as long as the 5th jack is involved in the path then clock noise is blocked.

 

John S.

So based on this explanation for people like me that's uses HQP with an NAA, the best configuration to take advantage of the 5th jack nose blocking is:

 

Connect router/switch to any of the 4 jacks

Connect 5th jack to HQP PC

Connect NAA to any of the 4 jacks

 

This way, date coming from the router/switch to the HQP PC and upsampled music from the HQP PC to the NAA willl get noise blocking.  Did I get that right?

 

[diecaster]

4 minutes ago, tboooe said:

So based on this explanation for people like me that's uses HQP with an NAA, the best configuration to take advantage of the 5th jack nose blocking is:

 

Connect router/switch to any of the 4 jacks

Connect 5th jack to HQP PC

Connect NAA to any of the 4 jacks

 

This way, date coming from the router/switch to the HQP PC and upsampled music from the HQP PC to the NAA willl get noise blocking.  Did I get that right?

 

 

I would put whatever device talks to the DAC directly on the single RJ45 port on its on side of the moat. That way any clock phase noise is blocked going to the device talking to the DAC. I would assume this is the NAA. 

[Superdad]

1 hour ago, tboooe said:

So based on this explanation for people like me that's uses HQP with an NAA, the best configuration to take advantage of the 5th jack nose blocking is:

 

Connect router/switch to any of the 4 jacks

Connect 5th jack to HQP PC

Connect NAA to any of the 4 jacks

 

This way, date coming from the router/switch to the HQP PC and upsampled music from the HQP PC to the NAA willl get noise blocking.  Did I get that right?

 

 

You’re idea is interesting but,

 

53 minutes ago, diecaster said:

 

I would put whatever device talks to the DAC directly on the single RJ45 port on its on side of the moat. That way any clock phase noise is blocked going to the device talking to the DAC. I would assume this is the NAA. 

 

Diecaster is correct about this.   DAC-connected endpoint should be best by itself on its own side.

 

Realworld experimentation could yield other results though. 

[tboooe]

46 minutes ago, Superdad said:

 

You’re idea is interesting but,

 

 

Diecaster is correct about this.   DAC-connected endpoint should be best by itself on its own side.

 

Realworld experimentation could yield other results though. 

Ok, so there is no benefit to going through the 5th jack more than once.  One pass through it it's b enough.

[R1200CL]

........or people should just purchase as many EtherRegen as they would like to have that superclean 5th RJ45 interface. 😂

 

Hm, maybe there will be a demand for a super clean optical port as well in a future upgrade, but then again maybe that optical interface is just as good as it gets. My understanding is phase noise is already covered. So I actually cannot see what an upgrade can do. 

 

Those that need more optical interfaces purchase the number of EtherRegen needed, same with those that is in a need more than one super clean RJ45 port. 

[diecaster]

2 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

........or people should just purchase as many EtherRegen as they would like to have that superclean 5th RJ45 interface. 😂

 

Hm, maybe there will be a demand for a super clean optical port as well in a future upgrade, but then again maybe that optical interface is just as good as it gets. My understanding is phase noise is already covered. So I actually cannot see what an upgrade can do. 

 

Those that need more optical interfaces purchase the number of EtherRegen needed, same with those that is in a need more than one super clean RJ45 port. 

 

This post is useless drivel. 

[R1200CL]

2 minutes ago, diecaster said:

 

This post is useless drivel. 

 

Please explain ?

Dont you think several 5th  ports have a value for some people ?

[diecaster]

4 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

 

Please explain ?

Dont you think several 5th  ports have a value for some people ?

 

It looks like you are mocking the product. 

 

All the the ports are basically equal. The key is that crossing the moat blocks clock phase noise from one side to the other. So, you just need to block the clock phase noise going to the DAC since that is the last device to see the digital signals. 

[Superdad]

17 minutes ago, diecaster said:

All the the ports are basically equal. The key is that crossing the moat blocks clock phase noise from one side to the other. So, you just need to block the clock phase noise going to the DAC since that is the last device to see the digital signals. 

 

PRECISELY!! 

[Superdad]

32 minutes ago, diecaster said:

This post is useless drivel. 

 

That’s not the particularly polite tone I like to see here.

 

But @R1200CL would be aided towards a better understanding by studying a bit upthread (just the prior page) regarding the ports and the two separate, both excellently clocked and isolated sides.

 

All ports of EtherREGEN will equal or better those of any other switch on the market, but the separate, actively isolated clock domains will accomplish—in both directions—what no other switch or FMC can. This is the main (but not only) aspect of the product which gives us such confidence that it is going to be a smash success. 

[Superdad]

 

52 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

........or people should just purchase as many EtherRegen as they would like to have that superclean 5th RJ45 interface.

 

We are trying to avoid referring to our switch as having one super-clean port (see above—they are all very clean and well-clocked, just one is in its own domain).

But indeed if people wish to purchase additional EtherREGEN units to use as LAN clocking-domain isolators/phase-noise reducers, they are welcome to do so.  Could be useful (certainly to the UpTone bank account ).

 

 

52 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

Hm, maybe there will be a demand for a super clean optical port as well...

 

Yeah, that’s where you veer off.  The optical is not worse than the lone port on the other side.  They are simply on opposite but essentially equal sides.

 

44 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

Don’t you think several 5th  ports have a value for some people ?

 

Possibly, but really we are focused and expecting the biggest difference to be for the DAC-connected or closest-to-the-DAC Ethernet device.

[R1200CL]

4 hours ago, Superdad said:

Yeah, that’s where you veer off.  The optical is not worse than the lone port on the other side.  They are simply on opposite but essentially equal sides.

 

John says:

“So going from any of the 4 jacks or SFP cage to the 5th jack blocks the clock noise. Going from the 5th jack to any of the 4 jacks or the SFP cage blocks the clock noise. Going from a 4 jack to another 4 jack does NOT block the clock noise and going from a 4 jack to the SFP cage does NOT block the clock noise. So as long as the 5th jack is involved in the path then clock noise is blocked.”

 

My understanding of this is that you need the 5th port in order to fully take advantage of the clock block noise feature. 

 

An interesting observation here is that you actually can use the 5th port as input and as an example the optical as output and achieve the same as going opposite. This is very important to understand I think, and @Superdad may confirm so I’m not produces more confusion 😀

 

If you add a PC or something with a NAA in addition to port 1 to 4, would that ethernet interface possible in any way pollute any of the other 1 to 4 interfaces?

Leakages of any type or noise of any type ? (Except clock noise, which is not blocked between those 4 ports). I’m not sure here if clock noise is generated from the EtherRegen internal clock or an external source or both. Probably doesn’t matter much. 

 

If so, some people may have a setup that they like to add a second EtherRegen, otherwise as I see it most people would only need one. 

 

May understanding Is you “need” two , if you for some reason want to separate clock noise on more than one port. But if there exist a case where you actually may benefit from such a setup, I have no idea. 

Maybe if you have dual setup of renders (Rendu’s).

 

EDIT:

I now also see Alex wrote:

“They are all very clean—with great clocking—and they all block leakage currents (due to other design choices), it is just that as John explained—and you understood—one copper port is entirely in its own domain, sobest use of the EtherREGEN will be as you describe, using both sides.“

 

Which answer on of my question above, so basically then my understanding is port 1 to 4 can’t polute each other,, (excep clock noise, where ever it’s coming from?), and hence you probably could have two Rendu’s as an example connected to J1 to J4 or the SFP, and another EtherRegen won’t make any difference in theory. 

 

[R1200CL]

@JohnSwenson

Are there any patents planned for some of your nice designs ?

 

If patents at some stage is involved for any product, I suppose such thing would raise the price ?

 

I personally would look at it as a good thing. Not only to protect IP. You can license out the technology, and we can hopefully be sure that any manufacturer using a John’s Swenson design is using the state of art technology 😀

 

We had bad USB implementations. Next we’ll probably be bad ethernet implementation in Roon ready DAC’s and similar. 

 

 

[LowMidHigh]

Let me bring the discussion down to my neanderthal level:

 

After I hook up my streamer to the coming switch, is there any benefit in hooking my NAS to it too?

Or should I keep the NAS far off, connected to the router?

 

Thanks!

 

 

[Superdad]

3 hours ago, LowMidHigh said:

After I hook up my streamer to the coming switch, is there any benefit in hooking my NAS to it too?

Or should I keep the NAS far off, connected to the router?

 

Hard to say.  In theory having your NAS, etc. plugged into your normal router/switch and running one cable to the EtherREGEN—and one cable out to your DAC-connected endpoint—should be enough to take care of everything (leakage, phase-noise, etc.).

 

Thus it is a currently unanswerable question as to if also plugging you NAS into EtherREGEN will be of further sonic benefit.  I certainly don’t think it can hurt.

 

We’ve been talking quite a bit about the two ultra-low-jitter isolated clock domains. But I also want to point out that a lot of care has gone into the selection of the main Ethernet switch chip and the magnetics of the 4-port jack module (it’s possibly the most expensive one made due to its number of transformer cores per jack).  The particular way the PHYs of this switch chip are designed to be connected ensure exceptional port-to-port leakage isolation (of those 4 ports to each other).

[Theobetley]

Are you still talking February as a launch date?

[LowMidHigh]

On 1/21/2019 at 12:28 AM, Superdad said:

 

Hard to say.  In theory having your NAS, etc. plugged into your normal router/switch and running one cable to the EtherREGEN—and one cable out to your DAC-connected endpoint—should be enough to take care of everything (leakage, phase-noise, etc.).

 

Thus it is a currently unanswerable question as to if also plugging you NAS into EtherREGEN will be of further sonic benefit.  I certainly don’t think it can hurt.

 

We’ve been talking quite a bit about the two ultra-low-jitter isolated clock domains. But I also want to point out that a lot of care has gone into the selection of the main Ethernet switch chip and the magnetics of the 4-port jack module (it’s possibly the most expensive one made due to its number of transformer cores per jack).  The particular way the PHYs of this switch chip are designed to be connected ensure exceptional port-to-port leakage isolation (of those 4 ports to each other).

 

Allow me to attack it from a different angle. Will the new switch eliminate, or at the very least minimize, the difference between various NASes? 

 

People report on varying sound quality among NASes, I suppose the result of more or less electrical noise being carried downstream. If I understand correctly, the new switch will wipe away all that. 

 

Can you please opine? 

[Superdad]

11 hours ago, Theobetley said:

Are you still talking February as a launch date?

 

No, we have slipped a bit.  Second-to-final round of test boards are coming in this week, but there is still much work to be done, so I am not going to speculate on a release date.  Please know that we are working very hard on this, and I’ll be very happy to report new milestones as we hit them.

 

31 minutes ago, LowMidHigh said:

Will the new switch eliminate, or at the very least minimize, the difference between various NASes? 

 

Well that is very much our hope and expectation, but the truth is that we won’t know until the EtherREGEN is in production and in peoples’ systems. 

 

[jos]

How abouth this device, see link? Brand new by the way and promising!

 

https://www.djmelectronics.com/gigafoilv4-inline-ethernet-filter.html

 

AudioStream was quite positive in a review, about a year ago.

[diecaster]

5 minutes ago, jos said:

How abouth this device, see link? Brand new by the way and promising!

 

https://www.djmelectronics.com/gigafoilv4-inline-ethernet-filter.html

 

AudioStream was quite positive in a review, about a year ago.

 

Not cool to promote a competing device in this thread.

 

Having said that, this device does nothing special that you can't get by using other optical solutions. EtherREGEN will be superior....

[nonesup]

1.- I think he's right. It is not the thread to talk about another product.
2.- Without having compared GigafoilV4 with the other noise reducers, the affirmation can not be made that they will do the same.
3.- The statement that EtherRegen "will be superior" is another assumption on its part. I think there are many of us who hope that it is, to buy one. But even Superdad himself is careful to say that they "expect" that their product is better than what is on the market (although I am sure he is convinced that he will be superior).

[jos]

1 hour ago, diecaster said:

 

Not cool to promote a competing device in this thread.

 

Having said that, this device does nothing special that you can't get by using other optical solutions. EtherREGEN will be superior....

That’s why, I think, we should discuss alternatives here too; perhaps not so polite but we all know what the alternatives are and take them in consideration.

[pl_svn]

5 minutes ago, jos said:

we should discuss alternatives here

 

I'm pretty sure UpTone knows what's already available and set its goal to coming out with something way better

[greenleo]

6 hours ago, jos said:

That’s why, I think, we should discuss alternatives here too; perhaps not so polite but we all know what the alternatives are and take them in consideration.

For a sponsored thread, the discussion of alternatives is not a good idea.  

[bobfa]

I have messed up recently with a personal discussion on another thread.  Keeping threads on track is hard.  This thread is about a new product that is not in production yet.  I want it to stay on that track.  The progress of the product into production and release...  @Superdad do not read this... keep working!!!  😎

 

 If we are going to talk about networking in general or networking switches then create a thread about that.