USB audio cracked... finally!

[Paul R]

6 hours ago, PeterSt said:

 

Maybe come look over here then ? 

 

For starters, subwoofers are out of order. They only distort (and not the least at it). So my speakers (of my own design - see sig) produce no audible distortion at 89dBSPL and 19Hz. 100Hz - 19Hz is +/- 0.5dB (and not any useless +/-3dB number - do you know how much audible even 1dB is in that regions ?).

I am pretty sure that no speaker exists that can do this, as no speaker is tuned like this. So we made this like it was a DAC (by THD numbers). And "no distortion" means that when you play this 89dBSPL at 19Hz, you hear totally nothing. And not because nothing moves so be careful that your hair remains in position.

 

Notice the 1/12 oct and thus hardly any smoothing in this plot.

 

The 19Hz is because this (or 20Hz) really happens with "ambient roll". Happens in a church, but also happens in a larger room and when the kickdrum is used. Always. Sadly many CDs are 30Hz highpassed because they origin from LP where this was necessary (or the needle would jump out). Also, all is matched so a kickdrum will be rendered as a real kickdrum, which is about feeling it in the stomache. Do this with 6dB or so less and it doesn't work any more, or do this with distortion which starts at ~25 Hz and it also doesn't work any more (you won't be hearing a real kickdrum).

 

While the speaker is tuned to show undistored 19Hz at 89dBSPL, it does the same at 27Hz but then 120dBSPL. Thus, when no frequencies are present below 27Hz, again nothing audibly distorts but now at 120dBSPL. Try it in your room and see what happens with Stanley Clarke et al. 

 

The speaker also exhibits 118dB efficiency which could be a world record. And might you look into the link in my sig, the amplifiers are built in there (4 per speaker).

 

So today I am selling speakers.

Anything else ?

haha

 

 

 

Hi Peter - 

 

Everything is distorted to one degree or another, in the audiophile world it is simply choosing what form of distortion pleases your the most. (Or irritates you the least. Same thing in a way...) 

 

Speaking only for me, the smooth frequency response that most sealed (i.e. acoustic suspension) speakers produce is more pleasing to me than say, the rigorous time alignment produced by coaxial drivers in speakers like the LS50. This is true even though both types of speakers are valid audiophile designs, they just appeal to different people. 

 

Competent modern USB designs sound very good to me, best when being produced by a small system with remote storage. Even better if the network connection is optical, and so forth and so on. You can throw enough "bandaids" at anything to "correct" or make the sound acceptable. Well, *almost* anything - some things may require massive applications of duct tape...

 

I think the audio industry is going though a process to mature the current designs myself. Products start off very simple, then get unbelievably complex, and finally, get simple again as they begin to mature.

 

Adding in subwoofers and super tweeters and multiple channels and complex digital audio processing, etc... to me, that is all audio in the "complex" phase. Soon enough it will settle out to the point where even "lifestyle" equipment sounds as good as or better than the high end gear of yesterday.  

 

The things you have learned and taught the industry about USB, as well as the equally large and important contributions by folks like Gordon Rankin and others, will all get incorporated into easy to use products in the future.  Then we will have to move on to arguing which holographic sound projector makes the most "real" sound, and whether the GigaFlu 9000 50 TeraMIP processor or the TeraFlu 9010 55 TeraMip processor sounds more realistic.

 

-Paul

 

[PeterSt]

Just now, Paul R said:

Everything is distorted to one degree or another

 

Is sure is. Sometimes it is a miracle that music is actually allowed to play. But this is also why there is so so much to improve.

 

Thank you Paul.

[semente]

8 minutes ago, Paul R said:

Adding in subwoofers and super tweeters and multiple channels and complex digital audio processing, etc... to me, that is all audio in the "complex" phase. Soon enough it will settle out to the point where even "lifestyle" equipment sounds as good as or better than the high end gear of yesterday.

 

I don't think that DSP can improve bad drivers or increase the dynamic range of small cones in small boxes or correct the dispersion pattern of a carelessly designed speaker.

[jabbr]

3 hours ago, Speed Racer said:

 

No he hasn't. Because no other products compare......

How many other individuals have built and sold a system from the computer, optimized OS, software, cable, DAC, amps & speakers ... and provide measurements?

 

I know of only a very few and that places @PeterSt into very rarified company

 

If Peter included an unequivocal warrantee that covered damage from use as soccer, hockey & lacrosse goals ... I'd buy in a heartbeat

 

[PeterSt]

[marce]

Must admit the speakers look interesting, may look further soon.

[Doak]

9 hours ago, Speed Racer said:

Let's see. So far you have the best DAC in the world, the best USB decrapifier in the world, the best USB cable in the world, and now the best speakers in the world.

 

Yet, somehow, I am not surprised......

I know speakers better than anything else after 45 yrs in this and I'd bet the wad that the Orelo is a true contender. 

[Doak]

1 hour ago, Doak said:

I know speakers better than anything else after 45 yrs in this and I'd bet the wad that the Orelo is a true contender. 

 

And my Lush 1m is due for delivery today. 

Will be interesting, no doubt. 

 

[acg]

8 hours ago, jabbr said:

How many other individuals have built and sold a system from the computer, optimized OS, software, cable, DAC, amps & speakers ... and provide measurements?

 

I know of only a very few and that places @PeterSt into very rarified company

 

 

If more companies were capable of designing and building matching amplifiers and speakers rather than doing one or the other I think that audio technology would prosper as a result and we would all be better off.  

 

What Peter does is off-the-charts...an entire ecosystem from playback software >> operating system >> audio computer >> cables >> dac >> amplifiers >> speakers.  That IS something truly extraordinary.  He is not a guy that concentrates on one or perhaps two parts of that chain...he sees all  parts as co-dependent and as a result is able to make some unique advances into sound reproduction.

 

I have all but the amps/speakers but will hear them some day.  In the meantime I am a little too preoccupied with triodes and enormous horns.

[mulberry bush]

Quote

2 minutes ago, acg said:

 In the meantime I am a little too preoccupied with triodes and enormous horns.

 

Oh dear, I should see a doctor as soon as possible.  They can work wonders these days you know...

[fas42]

10 hours ago, Paul R said:

 

Hi Peter - 

 

Everything is distorted to one degree or another, in the audiophile world it is simply choosing what form of distortion pleases your the most. (Or irritates you the least. Same thing in a way...) 

 

Speaking only for me, the smooth frequency response that most sealed (i.e. acoustic suspension) speakers produce is more pleasing to me than say, the rigorous time alignment produced by coaxial drivers in speakers like the LS50. This is true even though both types of speakers are valid audiophile designs, they just appeal to different people. 

 

 

There is a specific quality level I always work towards which ticks all the boxes for me - and that is when it becomes impossible to discern any distortion from the speaker drivers - they become 'invisible' under every possible listening situation. And that includes having one's ear literally only inches from the moving diaphragm while the volume is at normal listening level - this is equivalent to standing right next to the body of a musical instrument being played.

 

There is still distortion there, but the mind can discard it - the musical message overrides everything that doesn't "fit in", at that quality level.

 

I'm curious whether Peter achieves, or understands this aspect of audio playback potential ...

[fas42]

1 hour ago, acg said:

What Peter does is off-the-charts...an entire ecosystem from playback software >> operating system >> audio computer >> cables >> dac >> amplifiers >> speakers.  That IS something truly extraordinary.  He is not a guy that concentrates on one or perhaps two parts of that chain...he sees all  parts as co-dependent and as a result is able to make some unique advances into sound reproduction.

 

Very, very few people understand the importance of this concept - it's not about adding "goodness" to the ensemble; it's about removing all the crucial bits of "badness" that may impact the overall result, in any and every area of the whole.

[Speed Racer]

1 hour ago, acg said:

 

If more companies were capable of designing and building matching amplifiers and speakers rather than doing one or the other I think that audio technology would prosper as a result and we would all be better off.  

 

What Peter does is off-the-charts...an entire ecosystem from playback software >> operating system >> audio computer >> cables >> dac >> amplifiers >> speakers.  That IS something truly extraordinary.  He is not a guy that concentrates on one or perhaps two parts of that chain...he sees all  parts as co-dependent and as a result is able to make some unique advances into sound reproduction.

 

I have all but the amps/speakers but will hear them some day.  In the meantime I am a little too preoccupied with triodes and enormous horns.

 

4 minutes ago, fas42 said:

 

Very, very few people understand the importance of this concept - it's not about adding "goodness" to the ensemble; it's about removing all the crucial bits of "badness" that may impact the overall result, in any and every area of the whole.

 

You guys are right....everyone other company that makes the same type of products should just close their shops now. They can't compete....

[fas42]

10 hours ago, PeterSt said:

That is a different story. Point is : you don't know what you are missing. OK, so all is fine. Haha.
 

 

I've never had a thing about the very low bass being important - I have yet to hear a system do, say, pipe organ as competently as I've managed myself - "gutless" is a word that I find easy to use with other attempts to play this sort of music - yet, this is without low bass in place, . The rest of the spectrum is far, far more important, IME.

[Jud]

51 minutes ago, Speed Racer said:

 

 

You guys are right....everyone other company that makes the same type of products should just close their shops now. They can't compete....

 

Schiit doesn't make speakers (yet), so maybe Yggy/Rag would sound very nice with Orelinos....  You never know.

[acg]

53 minutes ago, Speed Racer said:

 

 

You guys are right....everyone other company that makes the same type of products should just close their shops now. They can't compete....

 

Are you 10yo?  A tantrum won't make you feel better...

 

EDIT:  Obviously got the Schiits with something.

[One and a half]

1 hour ago, acg said:

 

Are you 10yo?  A tantrum won't make you feel better...

 

EDIT:  Obviously got the Schiits with something.

The previous quotes deserved the treatment.

[Johnseye]

Received my Lush cable today and damn it took 2 days to get here from the Netherlands.  Not only that but Peter responded promptly to my order and took no time at all fulfilling my order.  Some of the most friendly and fast service I've ever experienced.

 

I am however having an issue.  My PC can not see my DAC with the Lush cable in line directly between the two.  Other USB cables have no issue.  When I use the sMS-200 between it and the DAC I have no issue.  Any ideas what the problem is and how I can resolve it?

 

Windows 2016 Server.  AO and Fidelizer disabled, still same problem.

USB controller shows "Device Descriptor Request Failed"

 

Error image attached.  

[elcorso]

37 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

Received my Lush cable today and damn it took 2 days to get here from the Netherlands.  Not only that but Peter responded promptly to my order and took no time at all fulfilling my order.  Some of the most friendly and fast service I've ever experienced.

 

I am however having an issue.  My PC can not see my DAC with the Lush cable in line directly between the two.  Other USB cables have no issue.  When I use the sMS-200 between it and the DAC I have no issue.  Any ideas what the problem is and how I can resolve it?

 

Windows 2016 Server.  AO and Fidelizer disabled, still same problem.

USB controller shows "Device Descriptor Request Failed"

 

Error image attached.  

 

No shi*t...!

 

Do you have installed Dutch, Frisian & Papiamento languages on your PC.

If not, you don't get the Lush.

 

Roch

[Paul R]

4 hours ago, fas42 said:

 

There is a specific quality level I always work towards which ticks all the boxes for me - and that is when it becomes impossible to discern any distortion from the speaker drivers - they become 'invisible' under every possible listening situation. And that includes having one's ear literally only inches from the moving diaphragm while the volume is at normal listening level - this is equivalent to standing right next to the body of a musical instrument being played.

 

There is still distortion there, but the mind can discard it - the musical message overrides everything that doesn't "fit in", at that quality level.

 

I'm curious whether Peter achieves, or understands this aspect of audio playback potential ...

 

I'm a bit curious if I this is actually a verifiable hypothesis. I expect if it is impossible to discern any distortion from the speakers, then the playback is so loud your ears and brain are - in a way - shutting down to protect themselves. This is a well known phenomena that has been experimentally verified. 

 

Tonight I am battling a bit of tinnitus and everything sounds off and different. Headphones are the only way I can enjoyably listen, but listening too loudly does more damage than anything else. As does age and far too much exposure to the the 58hz hum of Allison T56's. 

[jabbr]

4 hours ago, Speed Racer said:

 

 

You guys are right....everyone other company that makes the same type of products should just close their shops now. They can't compete....

 

Sarcasm alert 

 

Different characteristics appeal to different people.

 

The way I see it @PeterSt isn't competing with Emotiva or Schiit whose products I don't know but generally are very well respected at very reasonable price points. Instead, I see him competing at a price point 10x higher than his. If you know the sum of my posts, I'm probably more of a DSD guy than PCM (not really actually I try not to get too attached to a particular technology nor solution) but I would say that Phasure is probably the very very best reasonably achievable with PCM. I've got a NOS1a to see what is capable with PCM ... and it sounds really terrific ... and again I'm working on my own DSD DAC ... and if someone wanted to compare the Phasure "stack" probably ought compare to that really cool powered direct DSD speakers Estelon. (I haven't heard this but if they want to send me for review I'd be very happy and won't guarantee that I'll send back  

 

Again, I'd never suggest there is no competition but in terms of end to end integrated competition we are in rarified atmosphere***

 

*** really a this point the DAC is so good that we are looking at amp/speakers having more of an effect than the DAC

[Johnseye]

51 minutes ago, elcorso said:

 

No shi*t...!

 

Do you have installed Dutch, Frisian & Papiamento languages on your PC.

If not, you don't get the Lush.

 

Roch

 

Ok right.

 

Anyone with some helpful ideas?

[jabbr]

2 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

 

Ok right.

 

Anyone with some helpful ideas?

What DAC? What driver? need more specifics...

[Johnseye]

5 minutes ago, jabbr said:

What DAC? What driver? need more specifics...

 

Audio Alchemy DDP-1 DAC

drivers paired with the DAC are:

tusbaudioapi.dll

AudioAlchemy_LLCasio.dll

AudioAlchemy_LLCasio_x64.dll

Thanks

[fas42]

1 hour ago, Paul R said:

 

I'm a bit curious if I this is actually a verifiable hypothesis. I expect if it is impossible to discern any distortion from the speakers, then the playback is so loud your ears and brain are - in a way - shutting down to protect themselves. This is a well known phenomena that has been experimentally verified. 

 

Tonight I am battling a bit of tinnitus and everything sounds off and different. Headphones are the only way I can enjoyably listen, but listening too loudly does more damage than anything else. As does age and far too much exposure to the the 58hz hum of Allison T56's. 

 

Yes, you're right that the ear/brain shuts down - it very specifically reduces the sensitivity of one's hearing, to handle the SPLs - in exactly the same way as listening to loud, natural sounds. When the speaker output is significantly distorted this happens to a greater degree - your mind says, "This sounds terrible - I don't want to hear it!!". But the 'magic' that happens when the distortion levels are low enough is that the AGC in your head merely adjusts to match how it would deal with those natural high level sounds - it then still sounds "real", even though it will be very loud.

 

Remember, this is only done as a checking exercise - no-one sane would stand right next to a set of bagpipes going full blast for hours on end! ...