DIY DC power cables

[R1200CL]

50 minutes ago, Em2016 said:

 

Do you know if he has he made progress on the ethernet cable design?

 

I'm sending him a weekly mail and asking.

i guess we're keeping him busy with all the other orders ?

 

 

[JohnSwenson]

18 hours ago, james_dmi said:

Hi,

 

I need to build a power cable for the ISO Regen that has a 2 pole 3.5mm jack on one end and then the Regen fitting 5.5mm x 2.1mm barrel on the other. Finding plugs here in the UK is no problem but I cannot seem to find anywhere selling to the UK a wire equivalent to the 20AWG Star Quad cable recommended here.

Is there anyone here in the UK that could help?

 

Many thanks,

 

James

There are a couple places on ebay UK that are selling short lengths of Canare 4S6.

 

John S.

[Ryelands]

3 hours ago, JohnSwenson said:

There are a couple places on ebay UK that are selling short lengths of Canare 4S6.

 

A popular UK equivalent is Van Damme "XKE Star Quad Microphone cable Pro balanced"; I bought mine from "Custom-Lynx" in Leicestershire; Though I can't find the star quad line on the company's web site, it's easily found on ebay. In a choice of ten colours, even. I've tried both the Van Damme and the Canare: If there's a difference between them, I can't spot it.

 

In passing, pinching John's "isolated screen" recipe, I made up a pair of interconnects using Van Damme SQ cable and, while simultaneously swallowing scepticism and gulping at the price, KL Eichmann phono plugs.

 

Though I've never before felt able to use the cliché "not subtle" to describe the difference made by a pair of cables, I don't think the demure shade of white had anything to do with it . . . In a word, excellent. Many thanks!

[asdf1000]

Just now, Ryelands said:

In passing, pinching John's "isolated screen" recipe

 

Thanks for sharing. I'm getting someone to make me a pair of XLR's with John's recipe (the Beldens that he recommended). Can't wait to have have them in a week or so.

 

I don't have the tools otherwise I would have tried myself but definitely should invest in some soldering gear - long overdue.

 

[Middy]

Hi there John must be a better googlers than myself . I could only find short lynx screened. Others only do a minimum long £30 order.

Thus Ebay seller sent this quite quick.

Look at this on eBay http://www.ebay.com/itm/291934904144

For ease a made for cable is the way to go. 

Good luck

Dave

 

[james_dmi]

6 hours ago, Middy said:

Hi there John must be a better googlers than myself . I could only find short lynx screened. Others only do a minimum long £30 order.

Thus Ebay seller sent this quite quick.

Look at this on eBay http://www.ebay.com/itm/291934904144

For ease a made for cable is the way to go. 

Good luck

Dave

 

John is correct I did some looking and there is this:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Canare-4S6-4-Core-Copper-Wire-DIY-Speaker-Cable-high-performance-audio-/232341291457?var=&hash=item36189ec1c1:m:mtrqC0q91iQXezeCX_3yKlA
 

It does come form China so a bit of a delivery time but I need to wait for the Regen anyway so not such an issue. I found a uk delivery for the 5.5 x 2.1 mm plug that John uses ( you get 10 of them! but only £4.78) here:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Pcs-Power-Cable-Male-Connector/dp/B00YRQTV4O/ref=sr_1_5?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1497098958&sr=1-5&keywords=5.5mm+2.1mm+plug

 

So my only issue is finding the 3.5mm 2 pole jack end. While I can find DIY plugs my concern with these will be if the wire will fit in and if I will be able to solder 2 wires to each terminal and still bet the plug back together? here is an example:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Neutrik-NYS-NYS226BG-3-5mm-2-pole/dp/B001F0WQ6K

 

I did look around to see if I could find a 3.5mm with screw terminals like the other plug and found this:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/10pcs-Gold-Video-AV-Balun-3-5mm-2Pole-Mono-Male-to-AV-Screw-Terminal-Jack-3/32761747932.html?spm=2114.40010308.4.20.OyiJLU

But it has a 10 minimum order ($75) + 60 day delivery time. I have so far not been able to find this delivered to the UK anywhere else.

 

 

 

 

[james_dmi]

6 hours ago, Middy said:

 

For ease a made for cable is the way to go. 

Good luck

Dave

 

 

Actually looks like our 2 ebay listings are the same. When you say a made for cable where would you suggest going for that in the UK. I did look on Ghent but they only seem to do 5.5 to 2.1 mm and these are too short for what I need. I need 2.1 x 5.5 to 3.5mm 2 pole jack and a length of 60cm at least.

[R1200CL]

16 hours ago, Em2016 said:

 

Do you know if he has he made progress on the ethernet cable design?

 

He just confirmed they have started the process. 

 

I'm wonder if it would benefit the cable if it only can transfer 10/100 ?

If so, then maybe even a star quad cable could be used ?

 

Does anyone have any view in this ?

 

In other discussion the conclusion is leaning towards that a 10/100 switch is best for audio interface. 

The other day I added an old D-link 10/100 switch to feed my MicroRendu. It is my listening impression, that this in my case added a quite nice lift in SQ. Of cause I used a LPS-1 as power for the switch ?

 

This is is why I think it may be beneficial in some cases to use a cable that only can transfer 10/100. 

 

 

 

Would some sort sort of a dual star quad design be a good idea ?

And would this require two separate cables, inside one plastic tube, but only one cable/wire for the shield loop, covering both star quad. 

[R1200CL]

1 hour ago, james_dmi said:

I need 2.1 x 5.5 to 3.5mm 2 pole jack and a length of 60cm at least.

 

Just email him. I have made 3 different cables now, not listed yet on his website. 

[austinpop]

24 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

 

Just email him. I have made 3 different cables now, not listed yet on his website. 

 

Make sure you bargain. His price quotes tend to be somewhat, um, aspirational. 

[R1200CL]

Another twist

Ever notice that some of the twisted pairs are easier to un-ravel? There is a reason for that. If adjacent pairs have an equivalent twist rate or pitch, the same wires of each pair could be next to each other for the entire run, negating differential signaling. In order to prevent that, Ethernet cable manufacturers use different twist rates (courtesy of Wikipedia):

 

http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/data-center/some-interesting-twists-about-ethernet-cabling/

 

Maybe star quad is not best way to go in a Ethernet cable ?

 

Further we need to agree that we use cat7 or not:

http://opticalfiberalsa.over-blog.com/2016/08/is-it-worthwhile-to-use-cat-7-ethernet-cable.html

 

Make sence to me to have individual screen. 

[Speedskater]

There is a whole lot of science in making Cat5 (and up) cables. Belden is a leader in that science.

 

Lots of Belden Blogs on the subject. But you have to do some searching.

http://www.belden.com/blog/index.cfm

[jaaptina]

11 hours ago, R1200CL said:

Another twist

Ever notice that some of the twisted pairs are easier to un-ravel? There is a reason for that. If adjacent pairs have an equivalent twist rate or pitch, the same wires of each pair could be next to each other for the entire run, negating differential signaling. In order to prevent that, Ethernet cable manufacturers use different twist rates....  

Yes I noticed that! Made this last evening. ViaBlue cable (7 euro/m) with Telegärtner connectors. Very robust cable. A joy to work with. 

[R1200CL]

1 hour ago, jaaptina said:

Yes I noticed that! Made this last evening. ViaBlue cable (7 euro/m) with Telegärtner connectors. Very robust cable. A joy to work with. 

 

How much did you pay for the connector ?

[asdf1000]

Hi John @JohnSwenson

 

Regarding the cheap and super effective 'external wire' mod you kindly shared earlier, for existing shielded cables:

 

I don't think anyone has actually ask yet but what does the external wire actually do and how does it make a cables existing shield do it's job properly?

 

I kind of get the phono cable example you gave but could you explain for say, a digital cable like a shielded USB or shielded ethernet cable.

 

Cheers, Sean

 

[Daudio]

4 hours ago, Em2016 said:

I don't think anyone has actually ask yet but what does the external wire actually do and how does it make a cables existing shield do it's job properly?

 

It has been explained before, but not often, so here goes my attempt:

 

As electromagnetic waves intersect the cables shield, they induce currents in it. Think of an EM wave front impinging on a shield's 'tube' at about a 45 degree angle. As the wave moves along the metal tube electrons get excited and want to move too. The external wire shorts these induced currents into heat, and prevents a buildup of charge that might get induced into the signal wires.

 

At least, that is how I see it...

 

[Speedskater]

Help me out, where is the 'external wire' mod  that John S wrote about.

A wire in it's self can't be a shield, but it can connect a shield to something.

[JohnSwenson]

Please see this post for details on my shielding approach and how it works.

 

For a cable that already has a shield connected on both ends (such as a USB cable), just connect the external wire from one end of the shield to the other end of the shield. It may not make any difference for USB because the GND wire in the cable may provide the end to end connection. It depends on how the shield is connected. If the shield is connected to the GND wire at both ends (either in the cable or in the equipment) the external wire is not necessary. Either way you can try it and see if it improves things. It doesn't hurt and it may make an improvement.

 

This approach of an external end to end wire will work well with Ethernet. You can get the advantage of shielding without having to connect the shield to the boxes cpossibly creating a leakage loop.

 

John S.

[Cornan]

Here is my Canare Y-split DC cable from hell! ?

 

 

It is powering the USB Regen Amber and Brooklyn DACs USB injection simultaneously with a Gophert floating PSU set to 5V/5,1A.

 

 

Works great! ?

[Ryelands]

1 hour ago, JohnSwenson said:

. . . an external end to end wire will work well with Ethernet. You can get the advantage of shielding without having to connect the shield to the boxes possibly creating a leakage loop.

 

Indeed it does. I'd found a while back that ViaBlue CAT7 "audio" grade screened LAN cable sounded, despite its lively price, poorer in my setup than a decent unscreened LAN cable such as Excel though the difference was much reduced after I disconnected the screen on the ViaBlue and cut the pairs that 100-BaseT doesn't use (4&5, 7&8).

 

On a whim, I recently restored the ViaBlue after joining up the ends as John suggests. It now seems to sound a little bit better than the Excel cable though the difference is probably not enough to justify its higher price. The biggest and easiest SQ jumps are still to be had by cutting the unused pairs and by running the LAN as slowly as possible (in my case, 10-BaseT).

 

Meanwhile, in CAT and pigeons mode, I also recently (for non-audio reasons) swapped a ZyXel ES105a 10/100 (version 3) switch sited just before my Fit-PC2 "endpoint" for version 1 of the box . Intrigued by how the older device sounded notably better, I saw that it uses an older chip though whether that's the cause I can't say. (My digital setup is all LPS-1 powered.)

[Speedskater]

Now I'm very confused. A bulk cable's shield should have continuity from end-to-end. While running an external wire from connector to connector may well reduce low frequency Common Impedance Coupling noise, it won't do anything to EMI/RFI interference.

[asdf1000]

6 hours ago, JohnSwenson said:

This approach of an external end to end wire will work well with Ethernet. You can get the advantage of shielding without having to connect the shield to the boxes cpossibly creating a leakage loop.

 

Hi John

 

As usual, thanks so much for sharing. On ethernet, will this external end to end wire result in no leakage loops, only if using a floating shield design, like the Belden 10GX series Cat6a?

 

Or even with end to end fully shielded ethernet cables?

 

I thought if you had an end to end shielded ethernet cable, like many of these fully shielded Cat7 and Cat8 ethernet cables out there, then even with the external wire added, you may still have leakage loops through the shield?

 

[asdf1000]

On 6/14/2017 at 1:22 AM, Daudio said:

so here goes my attempt:

As electromagnetic waves intersect the cables shield

 

Thanks heaps Dave! 

 

Are you able to share your thoughts on my question above, regarding ethernet cables.

 

If you have one of these new Cat7 or Cat8 cables that are shielded end to end, does adding this external wire also break leakage loops? Or do you still need a floating shield to break leakage loops?

 

John mentioned "an external end to end wire will work well with Ethernet. You can get the advantage of shielding without having to connect the shield to the boxes possibly creating a leakage loop."

 

Do you think that applies to any shielded ethernet cable? Or does that comment actually apply to unshielded ethernet cables?

 

Cheers in advance, Sean

 

[Daudio]

5 minutes ago, Em2016 said:

Are you able to share your thoughts on my question above, regarding ethernet cables.

 

Sean, thanks for the comment !

 

It's funny that you ask me this today, as I was just thinking about my 'relationship' with networking in audio, prompted by something I read this morning. The thing is I don't do 'Audio Ethernet' obsession/tweaking/spending/debugging and so on 

I looked at the idea of using a networked NAS for my library, what... 5-6 years ago, and decided that it wasn't for me, and I haven't regretted that decision since.

 

I notice quite a few threads on CA devoted to expensive LAN gear, setup, and what-not. Not to mention the isolators, power supplies (!!), and maybe even a little magic pixie dust   It really isn't that surprising, considering that our CA Lord and Master (Chris C) is, deep inside, a network geek. So his interest and expertise would influence a (perhaps disproportional) concentration of interest. Mind you I don't follow any of those threads, only watch them go by in Activity/Unread Posts, and a little taste here and there.

 

I tend to think the whole furor over switches and PSUs and CAT cables is kindda crazy   Like quantum stones and magic disks  But, then, like those weird ground boxes, I see 'something' going on there. Like my own experience with USB, SPDi/F and Toslink cables, where they all sounded very differently ! So I am of two minds on the subject (which I am quite fine existing in that state, as it often leads to better insight).

 

So, if you're still with me, I don't have any experience with Ethernet cables in an audio application. My music server connects with WiFi for web, partly due to its location, but also less hassle, and perfect galvanic isolation ( )  I do have a nice Blue Jeans CAT6a for a NAA experiment, I didn't get around to. It was recommended by Alex C of UpTone Audio, so...  And a client is interested in connecting to his PS Audio DAC Bridge II card, so I might get some experience, if he is of a mind to experiment.

 

On 6/13/2017 at 8:13 PM, Em2016 said:

I thought if you had an end to end shielded ethernet cable, like many of these fully shielded Cat7 and Cat8 ethernet cables out there, then even with the external wire added, you may still have leakage loops through the shield?

 

I'm not sure exactly what "end to end shielded" means, as I kinda assume that a cable shield goes from one end of the wire to the other, right  ?!?

 

And I didn't quite get what John S said:

31 minutes ago, Em2016 said:

"... You can get the advantage of shielding without having to connect the shield to the boxes possibly creating a leakage loop."

 

What isn't clear to me is if the shield is connected to the connector shell, and (maybe) thus connected to other parts of the system... ?

 

BUT, (if you're still reading) what I am fairly clear on, is that a Shorted Cable Shield (SCS ?), that is, a cable with both ends of the shield connected with a small straight'ish wire, will absorb and destroy EM energy (WiFi radio ?), preventing it from affecting the signal conductors to extremely low amounts, and without having to be connected to anything but itself. (OMG, like those mysterious and awfully named ground boxes )

 

That is one thing. The other thing you mention, 'leakage loops' has little to do with the SCS mod, but can happen through connected shields, signal grounds, or weirder stuff. Best to read back over Johns posts on the subject, or hope he chimes in on your particular question.

 

Sorry if I rambled on too much, but I was having fun 

 

 

[asdf1000]

11 minutes ago, Daudio said:

BUT, (if you're still reading)

 

Ha thanks Dave. It's embarrassing for me to admit, but that was genuinely riveting reading ! 

I should be ok (I think) with how to break leakage loops because the BJC Cat 6a is a floating shield (I learnt from Alex and John) so I learnt from them that takes care of breaking leakage loops. It was just John's comment "You can get the advantage of shielding without having to connect the shield to the boxes possibly creating a leakage loop." where I wasn't sure if that comment was referring to all fully shielded ethernet cables or unshielded cables or only cables like the BJC Cat 6a with the floating shield. Hopefully John will chime in as you say, whenever he gets a free minute or two.

 

Sorry, my mistake regarding 'end to end shielding': for this I meant where the end connectors are both connected to the shield - which is common with a lot of audiophile Cat7 and Cat8 cables now. But this doesn't apply to the BJC Cat 6a obviously, since the shield isn't connected to the end connectors at all.

 

I'm super interested in how you go with your BJC Cat 6a cable for your client. Is it just this straight external wire modification that you are doing or any other modification?

 

But I definitely do appreciate that you haven't spent too much time thinking about ethernet until recently because it hasn't been part of your system. So I don't want to press you too much on ethernet of course. But if you can share how you go with your client's BJC Cat 6a modification, that would be great reading and learning.

 

Thanks again and I greatly appreciate you sharing your knowledge and experience!

 

Cheers, Sean