Just got a Yggdrasil!

[Ralf11]

Thx - I have 90+% redbook.  I also don't see many inputs on the iDSD Micro. 

[LarryMagoo]

Are Mani and JA the same dude?   Has anybody seen these two?

 

They should be easy to spot....their ears will appear to made of Sn.

 

[Jud]

13 minutes ago, LarryMagoo said:

Are Mani and JA the same dude?   Has anybody seen these two?

 

They should be easy to spot....their ears will appear to made of Sn.

 

 

You wish you had his audio system.

 

And I have heard and liked Yggy (and owned various Mike Moffat DACs for about 25 years).

[gmgraves]

16 hours ago, manisandher said:

 

What parts of my post were crap?

 

That the Yggy has zero-crossing glitching distortion?

That I personally didn't like the sound of the Yggy when I had it here for a few weeks?

That the Yggy has problems with high level, high frequency tones?

That the Yggy has problems with the LSBs of 24-bit data?

 

You don't have to get all upset just because my opinion of the Yggy is different to yours.

 

Mani.

Well, since the newest DACs don't have those "characteristics" any more (much has been changed of late it could well be that you are we are talking apples and oranges, here.. I'm not at liberty to say what all has been changed, and the Yggy that I have is ostensibly one of the first to incorporate those changes. Needless to say, that I doubt seriously that the DAC you tried and the one I was sent do not sound the same.

[Samuel T Cogley]

4 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

Thx - I have 90+% redbook.  I also don't see many inputs on the iDSD Micro. 

 

The Micro has USB and S/PDIF coax and optical.  It will also output S/PDIF when inputing USB.

[Dr Tone]

5 hours ago, Samuel T Cogley said:

To be fair, I've had an opportunity to listen to an Ayre Codex ($1800-ish) for an extended period.  This is basically "trickle UP" tech from the Pono, believe it or not.  It will play both PCM and DSD and it sounds really nice.  Some consider DSD a "unicorn" format, but I tend to use HQPlayer in some environments and boy does the Codex shine with HQPlayer.  Better than the Yggy?  Maybe just as good in a different way.  YMMV, of course.

 

Upsampling to PCM or DSD128?  What is the Ayre doing with DSD, decimating it?  I have a codex at work but might bring it home for a comparison.

[Samuel T Cogley]

1 minute ago, Dr Tone said:

 

Upsampling to PCM or DSD128?  What is the Ayre doing with DSD, decimating it?  I have a codex at work but might bring it home for a comparison.

 

DSD128.  I'd be curious how you thought that sounds.

[Rexp]

9 hours ago, manisandher said:

 

Thanks for sharing. I'm genuinely pleased for you. I hope you accept that I'm being totally sincere here.

 

I had the Yggy on home loan because I was thinking of buying one for my office system. You see, I wanted to go the Roon/microRendu route in my office, but the DAC I had there was incompatible with the microRendu, hence my interest in the Yggy. (I did buy a microRendu, and an LPS-1 too, but have recently sold both because I've found a substantially better-sounding Roon solution for my office.) I didn't like the sonic signature of the Yggy and it seems a few people got upset when I started speculating why, going on to accuse me of all sorts of absurd things. Some crazy people in this hobby of ours! (But you don't seem to come across as one.)

 

Mani.

What was the Roon solution you went for? Thanks!

[earnmyturns]

6 hours ago, Samuel T Cogley said:

Now here's where I might lose some people: I think all the Schiit multibit DACs perform best with Redbook (as opposed to 24 bit at higher sample rates).  If someone had a lot of high sample rate files, I might steer them away from a Yggy.

<snip>

I have mixed feelings about how much I spent on the Yggy.  While I sincerely feel I got more than my money's worth (it sounds really, really good with Redbook), it also raised the bar of what a "reasonable" price for HiFi gear is, to the detriment of my wallet.  I've since bought other non-DAC gear that I wouldn't have considered (too expensive) since I bought the Yggy.

I was talking today with a colleague who is a real expert in signal processing (famous applied mathematician, worked for some well-known academic, government, and industrial outfits on cutting-edge signal analysis) and music recording (for a while he ran a recording studio on the side), who first told me about Schiit. He feels that Redbook is where good DACs really differ, because of how they handle mismatches between mastering and DAC anti-aliasing filters become audible so close to the top of the audible range. At 96/24 PCM, every decent DAC is competent. So, it's quite plausible that some listeners hear the benefits of the Schiit digital filter on Redbook, but those disappear at higher sampling rates, and then other characteristics might shift judgments. I own a lot of Redbook, and I still get a lot from smaller labels (such as via Bandcamp), but my higher res library is growing, so there's a Holo Spring level 3 on the way to hedge my bets. And to your second point, after buying the Yggy, going for the Spring as well became much easier

[Ralf11]

56 minutes ago, Samuel T Cogley said:

 

The Micro has USB and S/PDIF coax and optical.  It will also output S/PDIF when inputing USB.

 

 

Yes, I saw that - I need at least 3 inputs and ability to switch between them by remote.

[TubeLover]

21 hours ago, earnmyturns said:

Delta-sigma DACs are DSD natives, they have to do mess with PCM before they can convert it.

R2R DACs are PCM natives, they need to go through hoops to handle DSD.

Most DACs people use to are delta-sigma, so no surprise that other things being equal they do better with DSD. It does not follow that DSD is also better for R2R DACs, in fact I'd be kind of surprised it were given the (lossy) contortions needed. I own a Yggy (R2R) and I have a Holo Spring level 3 on order (also R2R, but very different design from the Yggy). The Holo Spring process DSD, but reviewers have uniformly preferred its NOS PCM mode.

 

I'll be extremely interested to hear your thoughts on how the two compare once you've had the opportunity to do so. Please keep us posted.

 

JC

[The Computer Audiophile]

28 minutes ago, earnmyturns said:

I was talking today with a colleague who is a real expert in signal processing (famous applied mathematician, worked for some well-known academic, government, and industrial outfits on cutting-edge signal analysis) and music recording (for a while he ran a recording studio on the side), who first told me about Schiit. He feels that Redbook is where good DACs really differ, because of how they handle mismatches between mastering and DAC anti-aliasing filters become audible so close to the top of the audible range. At 96/24 PCM, every decent DAC is competent. So, it's quite plausible that some listeners hear the benefits of the Schiit digital filter on Redbook, but those disappear at higher sampling rates, and then other characteristics might shift judgments. I own a lot of Redbook, and I still get a lot from smaller labels (such as via Bandcamp), but my higher res library is growing, so there's a Holo Spring level 3 on the way to hedge my bets. And to your second point, after buying the Yggy, going for the Spring as well became much easier

 

Very similar to what I've been told by DAC designers.  44.1 separates the men from the boys. 

[TubeLover]

14 hours ago, crenca said:

 

Be sure to write a review/comparison when you have a chance to!

 

Anyone else compare these two side by side?

Ted did a comparison in his review of the Holo Spring here on CA a while back, and I certainly trust his ears and expertise! You will find it in part 2:

 

[manisandher]

3 hours ago, gmgraves said:

Well, since the newest DACs don't have those "characteristics" any more (much has been changed of late it could well be that you are we are talking apples and oranges, here.. I'm not at liberty to say what all has been changed, and the Yggy that I have is ostensibly one of the first to incorporate those changes. Needless to say, that I doubt seriously that the DAC you tried and the one I was sent do not sound the same.

 

 

I'm glad to hear that Schiit aren't resting on their laurels with the Yggy, and have perhaps listened to the more critical comments that have been made about it, because this sort of feedback is the only way to improve. In my very first post about it last year, I mentioned that it had an alluring sound, but that there were some elements, especially the top end, that I didn't like - too 'splashy' and unrealistic. If they've managed to fix this, your Yggy might well be the sort of DAC I was hoping it'd be when I asked for a home loan last year.

 

I've since moved on myself and am no longer in need of another DAC in my office system. If this wasn't the case, I'd be giving the Yggy another go... once the upgrades you have are made more generally available.

 

Mani.

[Jud]

5 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

 

 

Yes, I saw that - I need at least 3 inputs and ability to switch between them by remote.

 

Not sure if the Teacs have that, but you might explore them.

[JoeWhip]

13 hours ago, Samuel T Cogley said:

 

I'm rather fond of the iFi iDSD Micro.  I have the now-discontinued silver one (the current model is black).  That one's around $550.  With PCM, the Yggy is much more detailed and lush.  Keep in mind that the Yggy is PCM only.  And every DSD->PCM conversion I've tried with the Yggy sounds underwhelming (even with HQPlayer).

 

Dacmagic Plus?  Buy an iDSD Micro.  The Dacmagic Plus was all that a few years back, but it's not at the same level as the current drop of DACs at that price.

 

To be fair, I've had an opportunity to listen to an Ayre Codex ($1800-ish) for an extended period.  This is basically "trickle UP" tech from the Pono, believe it or not.  It will play both PCM and DSD and it sounds really nice.  Some consider DSD a "unicorn" format, but I tend to use HQPlayer in some environments and boy does the Codex shine with HQPlayer.  Better than the Yggy?  Maybe just as good in a different way.  YMMV, of course.

 

I also have a Gumby that had upgraded from a Gungnir.  I don't want to say it sounds "almost" as good as the Yggy, but it sounds quite good with Redbook.

 

Now here's where I might lose some people: I think all the Schiit multibit DACs perform best with Redbook (as opposed to 24 bit at higher sample rates).  If someone had a lot of high sample rate files, I might steer them away from a Yggy.

 

Depending on where exactly in the $500-$1000 range you want to be, you might consider the Gustard X20.  There's no shortage of people who just love this DAC.  I heard one with HQPlayer (have not heard straight PCM) and it was just amazing for a sub-$1000 DAC.

 

I have mixed feelings about how much I spent on the Yggy.  While I sincerely feel I got more than my money's worth (it sounds really, really good with Redbook), it also raised the bar of what a "reasonable" price for HiFi gear is, to the detriment of my wallet.  I've since bought other non-DAC gear that I wouldn't have considered (too expensive) since I bought the Yggy.

 

Hope this helps.

I had the Gumby and the Yggy is significantly better. It sounds great with anything you feed it. Yes it is optimized for redbook but high Rez sounds superb. I would not steer anyone away from it for high rez at all. Not even close. As for the Gustard, we have listened to it vs. the Yggy extensively as a friend owns both. The Gustard is fully modded. It you want DSD, the Gustard is a great deal but it doesn't match the Yggy for PCM. IMHO. Of course, YMMV..

[4est]

7 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

 

Very similar to what I've been told by DAC designers.  44.1 separates the men from the boys. 

Hence HQPlayer and its abilities to modify filtering!

[4est]

16 hours ago, Samuel T Cogley said:

 

So "SDIF" is S/PDIF - Philips?

S/PDIF = Sony/Phillips Digital Interconnect Format

[gmgraves]

13 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

 

 

Yes, I saw that - I need at least 3 inputs and ability to switch between them by remote.

The inability to switch between inputs remotely is one of the few shortcomings I've found WRT the Yggy.

[gmgraves]

5 hours ago, 4est said:

S/PDIF = Sony/Phillips Digital Interconnect Format

 SDIF must be a Sony-only format, perhaps the one they came up with for DSD.

 

[Samuel T Cogley]

4 minutes ago, gmgraves said:

The inability to switch between inputs remotely is one of the few shortcomings I've found WRT the Yggy.

 

+1

 

Over two grand and I have to GET UP?!  I've tried to train myself to be mindful of what input I'm going to listen to before I sit down.  Oh well, first world problem I suppose.

[LarryMagoo]

Well I only have one input from my Mac mini and send the signal from the Yggy to a Headphone amp, for HP listening and another output to my Pre/Pro for speaker listening....no need to switch inputs...!

[Ralf11]

9 hours ago, Jud said:

 

Not sure if the Teacs have that, but you might explore them.

 

I have to a small extent and the Teac does have several inputs.  Not sure re a remote.  Actually, my hope is that the new Oppo disc player will have a good DAC in it that I can use for the mac mini and the TV.  Then I just have one other little used analog input (FM tuner).  One aesthetic but non-auditory goal I have is to reduce clutter by not having so many boxes.

 

 

[Ralf11]

1 hour ago, Samuel T Cogley said:

 

+1

 

Over two grand and I have to GET UP?!  I've tried to train myself to be mindful of what input I'm going to listen to before I sit down.  Oh well, first world problem I suppose.

 

 

I have lots of 1st world problems...

 

The odd thing is that remote operation couldn't cost them more than few bucks per unit.  Maybe they thought it was too much Schiit.

[LarryMagoo]

The new Oppo disc player will have the Sabre ESS 9038 chip, just like their new Sonica.  From my experience owning their 105 Disc player as well as their HA-1 HP Amp/DAC.  The Sabre DAC is way harsh compared to the Yggy...in fact there is literally no comparison ...> I have read reviews on the Sonica, and they have said, although much better than the 9018 and 9028 chips, the Sabre Glare is still there.

 

I still use my HA-1 as my Headphone amp (class A with plenty of grunt for my HD 800S), but use it with the Yggy DAC instead.   

 

As far as remote control goes, the HA-1 has an excellent remote to control my Headphone volume.