MQA is Vaporware

[sandyk]

6 hours ago, Paul R said:

 

You are right if course, but it is gang think or mob think. People will voluntarily act crazy in concert to be one of the “in” crowd. 🦍

 

IOW, " Groupthink", but NOT a conspiracy.

[sandyk]

3 hours ago, Jud said:

Would you settle for simply agreeing the environment in this thread allowed people to "gang up" on Lee with hostile, personally critical posts?

 

I would accept that.

[sandyk]

2 hours ago, Samuel T Cogley said:

 

I disagree.  Scoggins no longer shills (whatever his motivation) here for MQA.  That's a win.

 Yes, a win for Censorship of those whose views you don't agree with.

 Like it or not, this thread would possibly have fizzled out some time back if Lee had ceased posting what I believe are his genuine views, even if they appear to be misguided. If Lee for whatever reason finds MQA sounds better to him, no amount of posted technical analysis will ever convince him otherwise.

[Jud]

16 minutes ago, Tintinabulum said:

I realise that's dangerous

 

A British spelling.  And something else I 'realised' is that Tintinabulum is Latin for "ring" (the doorbell to Hugh Hefner's Playboy mansion had a sign saying "Non Oscillorum, Non Tintinabulum" - "If you don't swing, don't ring").  Subtly humorous.

[Samuel T Cogley]

Just now, sandyk said:

 Yes, a win for Censorship of those whose views you don't agree with.

 Like it or not, this thread would possibly have fizzled out some time back if Lee had ceased posting what I believe are his genuine views, even if they appear to be misguided. If Lee for whatever reason finds MQA sounds better to him, no amount of posted technical analysis will ever convince him otherwise.

 

Hi Alex.  We'll just have to agree to disagree regarding why Scoggins does what he does.  Obviously, my views about his motives are not as generous as yours.  Would you consider you and Scoggins to be generally like-minded when it comes to audio?

[sandyk]

2 hours ago, Jud said:

My aim is to discuss MQA in a fashion that is as technically accurate and as clear as possible; and thereby do what I can to avoid a future in which the already tiny slice of the market occupied by hi res and Redbook is dominated by a technically inferior, proprietary product.

 

If only this could be accomplished without hostility and personal attacks.

[Jud]

Just now, sandyk said:

 

If only this could be accomplished without hostility and personal attacks.

 

A very favorite line of mine from Detective Joe Friday in Dragnet (a character famous for brief, pithy observations) -

 

A stereotypical hippie type has been arrested by Friday for some hippie thing that I forget (drugs, protesting, whatever).  Under questioning, he starts raving in stereotypical hippie language about the "perfect world of peace and love" that he and his fellow hippies will bring about.

 

Whereupon:

 

Friday: No perfect world, son.

 

Hippie: Why not??!!

 

Friday: No perfect people.

 

So Alex, you might well wish for the technical debunking of MQA to've been accomplished without hostility and personal attacks, but that was never going to happen.  Just ask Friday.   

 

[sandyk]

1 minute ago, Samuel T Cogley said:

 

Hi Alex.  We'll just have to agree to disagree regarding why Scoggins does what he does.  Obviously, my views about his motives are not as generous as yours.  Would you consider you and Scoggins to be generally like-minded when it comes to audio?

 

I have no idea why Lee hears what he does. Perhaps it is only their technically inferior method of deblurring that he seems to find beneficial ? " Sharpening"  like that can even be performed in the PSU area at the time of saving the file without too much trouble.

I have made it quite clear that I preferred the original high res version over the MQA version with examples that were previously posted.

 

If Lee he says that he is not affiliated with MQA I take his word for it unless until he is conclusively proved to be lying.

Even POTUS deserves that !

[MikeyFresh]

5 hours ago, Paul R said:

Look at the post where the number of banned people was glorified, like a score card.

 

I like that post quite a bit, both now, and in the past when other MQA shills were banned. 

[sandyk]

10 minutes ago, Jud said:

So Alex, you might well wish for the technical debunking of MQA to've been accomplished without hostility and personal attacks, but that was never going to happen.  Just ask Friday.   

 

That can only happen when Admin or moderators are completely neutral.

 I can however understand that Chris has strong personal views in this area, and wishes as most informed members do, to see that MQA does not become mainstream and result in non Lossless files replacing genuine high res material.

 

[Jud]

8 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 

That can only happen when Admin or moderators are completely neutral.

 I can however understand that Chris has strong personal views in this area, and wishes as most informed members do, to see that MQA does not become mainstream and result in non Lossless files replacing genuine high res material.

 

 

This can only happen with enough Admins or mods.  And you'll remember no one could agree on how other mods besides Chris should operate.  Since it's still just Chris, that means there simply isn't a lot of time for a heavy hand.  This thread isn't at all unique for the level of heat generated in some of the comments.  We've all got the choice whether we want to leave for another forum due to that, or prefer this one.  All in all, I prefer this one.

[MikeyFresh]

3 hours ago, Paul R said:

Absolutely - and without a doubt that is a great loss for CA and a definite win for the pro-MQA side. It makes us all look unreasonable, childish, and foolish. 

 

I know you are not going to even consider the possibility that the above opinion is flawed, but it is.

[sandyk]

1 hour ago, Samuel T Cogley said:

 

Especially with the younger folks in Australia.  They can't say two sentences without saying it three times.

 

 I have it on authority from a USA Science teacher whose school hosts regular exchange students from Australia that our younger people are far more polite, and use profanity far less than their USA counterparts.

[MikeyFresh]

3 hours ago, Samuel T Cogley said:

Scoggins no longer shills (whatever his motivation) here for MQA.  That's a win.

 

+1 on that, I can't imagine any other valid summation.

[Paul R]

4 hours ago, firedog said:

Really Paul? Only you are an independent thinker?  All of the other regular posters on this thread are just victims of group think?  Thanks for the insult. 
If you believe that, I'd politely suggest you stop posting here, as it is clearly a waste of your time interacting with us. 

I'd say something much simpler happened here: this thread was basically a response to the irresponsible marketing of MQA by the mainstream audio press - pushing the greatness of MQA and it's claims, with basically no investigative analysis going on. Near zero checks of the claims MQA  was making. No actual blind listening tests. 

Our OP posted the first post and most of us chimed in b/c this was the only place we could make a critique or even mention possible problems the "ecosystem" held for audiophiles without being told we were ignorant know nothings who shouldn't dare to challenge the pronouncements of the great Bob Stuart. And that situation hasn't changed much. The audio press reacted to any questioning of their position in the same way the audience reacted to Chris' presentation  at RMAF. That was much more like a coordinated  mob response than anything that's gone on  here. This is one of the few places on the web where fact based analysis and criticism of MQA can be found. 

Do a few members here go overboard in their reactions? Yeah, they do. Just like everywhere on the Web. That in no way invalidates actual analysis or well thought out criticism that also appears here. 

No group think and no conspiracy. I can guarantee you I've never coordinated a single response. And even those of us who criticize MQA here don't agree on everything. Levels of "resistance" are quite varied. 

 

 

Oh common Danny - you know very well that there are just a small group of people here that I am talking about. I will go so far as to say "if" that group does indeed exist, then they are manipulating the reactions of some, perhaps most of the rest of the people here.  And this is indeed far easier to believe than to accept MQA is some kind of worldwide menace in collusion with the big record labels to curtail our freedom and lock up the market. 

 

Of course, the old saying, "Why attribute evil to that which can be more simply explained by stupidity" does seem to apply quite well to MQA. 

 

I think you are simply ignoring bad behavior because you agree with the thinking about MQA.  I do too, but that doesn't make me blind.

 

 

 

-Paul 

 

[Rt66indierock]

29 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 

I have no idea why Lee hears what he does. Perhaps it is only their technically inferior method of deblurring that he seems to find beneficial ? " Sharpening"  like that can even be performed in the PSU area at the time of saving the file without too much trouble.

I have made it quite clear that I preferred the original high res version over the MQA version with examples that were previously posted.

 

If Lee he says that he is not affiliated with MQA I take his word for it unless until he is conclusively proved to be lying.

Even POTUS deserves that !

 

 All you have to do is check Lee's LinkedIn account to know he doesn't work for MQA Ltd. But if you watch where he stands and sits at audio shows you might wonder a bit. Just as if you watched where I am at audio shows you would find me around the pro audio folks.

[fung0]

8 hours ago, mansr said:

I think Lee's replacement has arrived.

 

And... just for a change... could we NOT feed the troll??

 

I'll start, by making this my only word on the subject.

[Paul R]

2 hours ago, Rt66indierock said:

 

I don't have a commercial interest. Liquidating MQA Ltd is something they seem to be on path to because they don't have a revenue stream according to their financial statements published so far. And I have a lot of faith  in Bob Stuart's ability to lose money as he did at Meridian.

 

That I can pretty well agree with, but it is one hell  of a long way from:

 

 

[Ralf11]

1 hour ago, Jud said:

 

So simply stop what we are doing and replace it with nothing?  No positive action toward our intended goal at all?  Or if there should be some positive action, what would that look like?

 

you are creating a conspiracy...

[MikeyFresh]

2 hours ago, Samuel T Cogley said:

Keeping track of name calling?  I'd love to see that list.  I think the worst thing I've ever called Lee is a shill.

 

Exactly, I've followed this thread and seem to have completely missed this supposed name calling. Either that or it doesn't exist.

[Ralf11]

I simply cannot believe that there would be name calling on the internet

[MikeyFresh]

2 hours ago, christopher3393 said:

That was my point.

 

Just as @Samuel T Cogley's point was he'd love to see your list, and my point was that it doesn't exist.

[Paul R]

1 hour ago, Jud said:

 

This is really the flip side of what @Paul R was saying - people must have some external motivation to do what they do.

 

I think you both underestimate the ability of people to argue strenuously and at great length on their very own, without any external motivation at all.

 

That's a good point, but nobody argues like some of these folks do. 

[Ralf11]

Just now, MikeyFresh said:

 

Just as @Samuel T Cogley's point was he'd love to see your list, and my point was that it doesn't exist.

 

if there IS going to be a list of prohibited words, I hope there are exceptions for latin & greek

 

also yiddish, and also this:

http://www.pangloss.com/seidel/Shaker/

[Rt66indierock]

1 minute ago, Paul R said:

 

That's a good point, but nobody argues like some of these folks do. 

 

Please see Listening #196 and maybe Listening #165. According to Art audiophiles do argue like that.