Popular Post Jud Posted March 26, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted March 26, 2019 2 minutes ago, Paul R said: Well, is a flash mob “organized?” If you agree that it is, then the actions here were also organized. If not, then not. In fact it is organized *in advance*, and I'm pretty sure that's not what you mean. 2 minutes ago, Paul R said: I do do not think it is a stretch to call the actions here organized, but perhaps “orchestrated” would be more accurate and agreeable? I'm not trying to be difficult, really I'm not. 🙂 "Orchestrated" means someone is doing the orchestrating, that is, controlling the reactions of others, and I don't think that's accurate either (and perhaps again, maybe not what you really meant). Would you settle for simply agreeing the environment in this thread allowed people to "gang up" on Lee with hostile, personally critical posts? Ralf11 and Rt66indierock 1 1 One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
Popular Post kumakuma Posted March 26, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted March 26, 2019 10 minutes ago, Jud said: Would you settle for simply agreeing the environment in this thread allowed people to "gang up" on Lee with hostile, personally critical posts? I can live with this. Essentially a guy walked in a bar, started insulting folks, and was punched in the face by the person closest to him. Rather than taking this as a hint to leave, he continued to insult others until they also punched him in the face. Eventually other folks who hadn't even been insulted decided it would be fun to punch him as well. Rt66indierock, Currawong, Jud and 5 others 2 1 5 Sometimes it's like someone took a knife, baby Edgy and dull and cut a six inch valley Through the middle of my skull Link to comment
Popular Post firedog Posted March 26, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted March 26, 2019 2 hours ago, Paul R said: You are right if course, but it is gang think or mob think. People will voluntarily act crazy in concert to be one of the “in” crowd. 🦍 Really Paul? Only you are an independent thinker? All of the other regular posters on this thread are just victims of group think? Thanks for the insult. If you believe that, I'd politely suggest you stop posting here, as it is clearly a waste of your time interacting with us. I'd say something much simpler happened here: this thread was basically a response to the irresponsible marketing of MQA by the mainstream audio press - pushing the greatness of MQA and it's claims, with basically no investigative analysis going on. Near zero checks of the claims MQA was making. No actual blind listening tests. Our OP posted the first post and most of us chimed in b/c this was the only place we could make a critique or even mention possible problems the "ecosystem" held for audiophiles without being told we were ignorant know nothings who shouldn't dare to challenge the pronouncements of the great Bob Stuart. And that situation hasn't changed much. The audio press reacted to any questioning of their position in the same way the audience reacted to Chris' presentation at RMAF. That was much more like a coordinated mob response than anything that's gone on here. This is one of the few places on the web where fact based analysis and criticism of MQA can be found. Do a few members here go overboard in their reactions? Yeah, they do. Just like everywhere on the Web. That in no way invalidates actual analysis or well thought out criticism that also appears here. No group think and no conspiracy. I can guarantee you I've never coordinated a single response. And even those of us who criticize MQA here don't agree on everything. Levels of "resistance" are quite varied. Teresa, mav52, askat1988 and 8 others 7 2 2 Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three . Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
Popular Post rickca Posted March 26, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted March 26, 2019 1 minute ago, firedog said: No group think and no conspiracy. No collusion! The Computer Audiophile, DuckToller and MikeyFresh 3 Pareto Audio AMD 7700 Server --> Berkeley Alpha USB --> Jeff Rowland Aeris --> Jeff Rowland 625 S2 --> Focal Utopia 3 Diablos with 2 x Focal Electra SW 1000 BE subs i7-6700K/Windows 10 --> EVGA Nu Audio Card --> Focal CMS50's Link to comment
Popular Post firedog Posted March 26, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted March 26, 2019 5 hours ago, Tintinabulum said: I see it exactly the other way (on fora in general), "they" take it in turns to bash MQA, send someone over to Roon, keep that thread alive (MQA hate). As much is said here "maybe the other fora need NEW members". To me, it's a conspiracy against MQA. Nothing new comes out but it's just re-hashed for the purpose of the Campaign. Again, the reality is that the last few years have seen a huge PR machine (in audio terms) pushing MQA and trumpeting its greatness. Much of it based on demonstrably false claims. The audio press has called it a scientific revolution on par with Copernicus, and told us how clearly better sounding it is than both CD and standard hi-res. So much better that it's impossible to listen to it and not be a convert. With that situation as the status quo many active hobbyists who don't accept that POV have felt the need to counter the PR campaign in the only way they can - by popping up on forums and trying to get the facts out. crenca, askat1988, MikeyFresh and 4 others 6 1 Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three . Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
Popular Post firedog Posted March 26, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted March 26, 2019 1 hour ago, Paul R said: There is absolutely no question that you, and others here baited him unmercifully - and that you and others were acting in concert to do so. Look at the post where the number of banned people was glorified, like a score card. Or comments about “keeping track” of his behavior. It is very foolish to deny that, and to continue to try to spin facts into some fantasy about being white knights against MQA or something. The behavior you and others exhibited was absolutely gang thinking, and reminiscent of nothing more than a gang of middle schoolers hazing the outsider. Paul Where's your evidence for any of these claims? There is none - it's all in your head. But somehow your strictly personal understanding is twice given the label of an "absolute" fact. Well I'm glad you absolutely agree with yourself. And guess what? I think you are absolutely incorrect.... The "scorecard" is a joke making fun of the people who've lost their cool and gotten banned. If you want more civility, you should be in favor of the scorecard. Ralf11 and MikeyFresh 1 1 Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three . Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
firedog Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 1 hour ago, Jud said: Organized, no way. Folks gleefully "piling on," yep. But it seems to me provocation works both ways. I think most of us noted how Lee kept making the very same claims repeatedly, after he'd been provided understandable technical explanations as to why those claims couldn't be correct, and even where those claims obviously contradicted each other. I don't wonder that many people felt called upon to make sure those repetitions didn't go uncorrected, and even to question the motivations behind such continual repetition of what was essentially MQA marketing material. Yes. Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three . Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
firedog Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 58 minutes ago, Ishmael Slapowitz said: If you are going to lie, be disingenuous, "intellectually dishonest" as one poster put it a few pages back, obfuscate, and take an anti-consumer position, you had better bring a Kotex for your tuchus. We all learned this the first year the internet was widely available. Unless you are a tone deaf shlemiel.😄 Does everyone know Yiddish these days? Just wondering. If so, that's new to me. Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three . Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
Popular Post rickca Posted March 26, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted March 26, 2019 1 minute ago, firedog said: Does everyone know Yiddish these days? I find the whole shtick from @Ishmael Slapowitz tiresome and offensive. It was old back in my grandfather's day. Ralf11, daverich4, Ishmael Slapowitz and 1 other 2 1 1 Pareto Audio AMD 7700 Server --> Berkeley Alpha USB --> Jeff Rowland Aeris --> Jeff Rowland 625 S2 --> Focal Utopia 3 Diablos with 2 x Focal Electra SW 1000 BE subs i7-6700K/Windows 10 --> EVGA Nu Audio Card --> Focal CMS50's Link to comment
Tintinabulum Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 20 minutes ago, firedog said: So much better that it's impossible to listen to it and not be a convert. Well I get that, but over egging it doesn't seem necessary and the hobbyists (well certainly some of them) do take on the appearance of vigilantes. It just makes for polarisation. And out of curiosity, what is the aim of this counterargument? To convince others? The hostile attitude won't do that. To change the business model of MQA? Link to comment
Popular Post Samuel T Cogley Posted March 26, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted March 26, 2019 Just now, firedog said: Does everyone know Yiddish these days? Just wondering. If so, that's new to me. The only Yiddish I know: Schlemiel <- person who spills the soup at your dinner party Schlimazel <- person who the soup was spilled on Jud and MikeyFresh 1 1 Link to comment
Popular Post Rt66indierock Posted March 26, 2019 Author Popular Post Share Posted March 26, 2019 1 minute ago, Tintinabulum said: Well I get that, but over egging it doesn't seem necessary and the hobbyists (well certainly some of them) do take on the appearance of vigilantes. It just makes for polarisation. And out of curiosity, what is the aim of this counterargument? To convince others? The hostile attitude won't do that. To change the business model of MQA? The aim is the liquidation of MQA Ltd. crenca, troubleahead, maxijazz and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment
Samuel T Cogley Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 1 minute ago, Tintinabulum said: And out of curiosity, what is the aim of this counterargument? To convince others? The hostile attitude won't do that. To change the business model of MQA? What you're calling "hostile attitude" has indeed changed some minds about MQA. Just look at the open hostility by the MQA executives at Chris' RMAF presentation last year. Fighting fire with fire? crenca 1 Link to comment
Tintinabulum Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 1 minute ago, Samuel T Cogley said: What you're calling "hostile attitude" has indeed changed some minds about MQA Maybe a less hostile attitude could have changed more and avoided polarisation Link to comment
Tintinabulum Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 2 minutes ago, Rt66indierock said: The aim is the liquidation of MQA Ltd. Shame, quietly fading away might be more achievable . (for another conversation but I don't get how it's going to catch on, why would people buy it, there's no prospect of a monopoly, isn't it doomed anyway? but for another conversation) Link to comment
Rt66indierock Posted March 26, 2019 Author Share Posted March 26, 2019 Just now, Tintinabulum said: Maybe a less hostile attitude could have changed more and avoided polarisation People tried in 2015 and 2016 with no success. MikeyFresh 1 Link to comment
Rt66indierock Posted March 26, 2019 Author Share Posted March 26, 2019 1 minute ago, Tintinabulum said: Shame, quietly fading away might be more achievable . (for another conversation but I don't get how it's going to catch on, why would people buy it, there's no prospect of a monopoly, isn't it doomed anyway? but for another conversation) You aren't reading their financial statements. Link to comment
Tintinabulum Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 2 minutes ago, Rt66indierock said: People tried in 2015 and 2016 with no success Sometimes it's better to keep quiet, don't give the topic the fuel of publicity? Link to comment
Rt66indierock Posted March 26, 2019 Author Share Posted March 26, 2019 1 minute ago, Tintinabulum said: Sometimes it's better to keep quiet, don't give the topic the fuel of publicity? This thread is a reaction to the marketing plan of MQA Ltd. MikeyFresh 1 Link to comment
Popular Post Ralf11 Posted March 26, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted March 26, 2019 2 hours ago, Samuel T Cogley said: To be fair, Scoggins is something like a hero to some. Seriously. Did you mis-spell 'zero' ?? Indydan and MikeyFresh 1 1 Link to comment
Samuel T Cogley Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 11 minutes ago, Tintinabulum said: Maybe a less hostile attitude could have changed more and avoided polarisation My grandmother used to say, "you'll catch more flies with honey than vinegar". But Grandma never saw how insidious both the technology and the marketing of MQA are. And those who suggest that Grandma's method should be used with MQA never, ever acknowledge the hostility (in the form of disingenuous and misleading claims) of MQA. MikeyFresh 1 Link to comment
Samuel T Cogley Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 2 minutes ago, Ralf11 said: Did you mis-spell 'zero' ?? Nope, serious. Just look at his threads (the ones that didn't get deleted) over at Hoffman to see what I mean. Link to comment
Popular Post Jud Posted March 26, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted March 26, 2019 4 minutes ago, firedog said: The "scorecard" is a joke making fun of the people who've lost their cool and gotten banned. Regardless of intent, what I primarily got from it is that no one arguing in favor of MQA has really brought technical chops to the table. Nothing about the filtering, in terms of aliasing or ringing ("blurring" in MQA vernacular). Nothing about file size savings vs. lossless compression. Nothing about monetary savings from any file size savings. Nothing showing artists are being paid better or actual plans to do so. Nothing, in short, showing any reason to have MQA that couldn't be done as well or better in a non-proprietary format. crenca, troubleahead, Teresa and 2 others 2 1 2 One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
Paul R Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 1 hour ago, Jud said: In fact it is organized *in advance*, and I'm pretty sure that's not what you mean. I'm not trying to be difficult, really I'm not. 🙂 "Orchestrated" means someone is doing the orchestrating, that is, controlling the reactions of others, and I don't think that's accurate either (and perhaps again, maybe not what you really meant). Would you settle for simply agreeing the environment in this thread allowed people to "gang up" on Lee with hostile, personally critical posts? Well, I will certainly agree with that statement. I do think there is some level of design behind those actions, the same as there was from MQA at Chris RMAF session. Stuff like this can happen once, maybe even twice as a coincidence, but four or five times? With absolutely predictable reactions? I don't go for conspiracy theories, but clearly, the actions of getting X number of people banned are not coincidental, and that implies at least some sort of planning. -Paul Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat DAC. Robert A. Heinlein Link to comment
Popular Post kumakuma Posted March 26, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted March 26, 2019 5 minutes ago, Samuel T Cogley said: Nope, serious. Just look at his threads (the ones that didn't get deleted) over at Hoffman to see what I mean. And I'm sure Lee is telling his industry buddies that his support of MQA is why he was banned from this site. Paul R, Indydan, Samuel T Cogley and 2 others 3 1 1 Sometimes it's like someone took a knife, baby Edgy and dull and cut a six inch valley Through the middle of my skull Link to comment
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