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MQA is Vaporware


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5 minutes ago, mansr said:

Doug Schneider and Paul Miller have been critical, though I don't think they've mentioned it much at all lately.

 

I've heard of Hi-Fi News and remember seeing it on newsstands. Is Soundstage! a major high end audio publication? I don't remember being much aware of it until now, but that doesn't mean anything.

One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

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1 minute ago, Jud said:

 

I've heard of Hi-Fi News and remember seeing it on newsstands. Is Soundstage! a major high end audio publication? I don't remember being much aware of it until now, but that doesn't mean anything.

Isn't Soundstage  online only? That's why I didn't include it. Doug certainly hasn't been in the MQA camp, that's for sure.

Main listening (small home office):

Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments.

Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three .

Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup.
Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

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13 minutes ago, Jud said:

 

Damn, I would "like" this multiple times if I could. Exactly matches my MQA listening experience, before this thread ever started. (There were obvious remasters that went beyond MQA, to the extent of things like instruments in different locations.)

MQA will probably claim that they were given the best available "authenticated" master and that's how it sounded....

Main listening (small home office):

Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments.

Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three .

Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup.
Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

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22 minutes ago, firedog said:

MQA will probably claim that they were given the best available "authenticated" master and that's how it sounded....

 

Maybe ,but they sure aren't going to tell us what master it was.

The Truth Is Out There

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41 minutes ago, John Dyson said:

but but but:  there is NO ringing!!!   That is the frustrating thing, they are basing their idea on something that doens't really exist...  It is a mirage, and have a full ecosystem on mistaking a series truncation for ringing.   So, that is another mark against MQA and the theory behind some of the aspects

 

When doing the series truncation (brickwall LPF), the so called 'ringing' frequencies were in the signal BEFORE the filtering.  The so called 'ringing' happens because of the higher frequencies being excluded, and the 'undulations' that you see  are a residual effect that were ALWAYS in the signal.

 

The signal associated with the Gibbs effect WERE NOT CREATED BY THE LPF!!!  They were made apparent by the removal of higher frequency components.

 

sqwave = x + x^3/3 + x^5/5 + x^7/7..., where x=2*pi*f*t

*Above, I ignored the 4/pi constant multiplication factor, unimportant for this discussion.

 

When you chop off the series above a certain point point -- removing frequencies above a certain point in the series, then you get those weird things that look like oscillations, but NOTHING HAS BEEN CREATED, and has only been removed.

 

John

 

Nice - I'd read about this before (including one prior comment from you in this thread), but didn't quite understand what you were driving at until now.

One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

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9 minutes ago, Jud said:

 

Nice - I'd read about this before (including one prior comment from you in this thread), but didn't quite understand what you were driving at until now.

It is so very easy to take the idea that Gibbs is the same as 'ringing'.  Everyone (including I) call it 'ringing.'  But, when it comes down to designing DSP software or circuitry, it isn't really ringing -- so needs to sometimes be looked at differently.  For example, it has SOME of the same characteristics that can be created by ringing.  If one looks at it in a different way -- 'ringing' in the correct circuit can massively increase the signal level -- but Gibbs is limited to a few percent (AFAIR about 9% -- I could be wrong -- I get things confused like everyone does.)  I promise you -- even EEs get tripped up by this one, mostly because it is often called 'ringing'.

 

This effect is one reason why  sometimes on digital systems it is a good thing to leave some wiggle room when normalizing a signal.  If there is a subsequent LPF, then the overshoot will cause fewer problems.   Ringing can still cause problems, but allowing for a linear phase overshoot is probably a good 1st cut rule.

 

The REAL problem with Gibbs is if there is a conversion to analog or the digital signal hard limits (or wraps around) at full scale, then a multitude of evils can happen.  Analog electronics can be susceptable to increases in distortion also.

 

John

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8 hours ago, firedog said:

Means nothing except for his personal preference for the sound of the unfolded or first unfold (lossy) formats. Apparently he prefers that. It would be interesting to hear him explain why he thinks he prefers the sound of lossy audio. Unless of course, it's all based on sighted bias.

If you read it again..there WAS no first unfold. He plugged a USB stick in the Naim from panel. Hmmmm.

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11 minutes ago, Ishmael Slapowitz said:

Hmmm. A review from Paul Miller's mag of the Naim streamer..

 

NO mention of lack of MQA decoding...no mention of MQA interesting contrast to Mr. Dudley.

 

https://www.hifinews.com/content/naim-audio-nd5-xs-2-network-attached-dac

 

Mr. @John_Atkinson, you sure your trade publication does not have a product placement contract with MQA Ltd.??  Are you sure?  

Hey MQA, if it is not all $voodoo$, show us the math!

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3 hours ago, mav52 said:

 

Maybe ,but they sure aren't going to tell us what master it was.

You do realize that I was being very sarcastic about those "authenticated" masters when I wrote that? 

Main listening (small home office):

Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments.

Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three .

Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup.
Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

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3 hours ago, Jud said:

 

I certainly don't mind people going back and doing better masterings.  That's to be encouraged.  It's just frustrating that having been run through the MQA process, it's not quite as good as it could be.

But Jud, they hand pick the very version the artist approved to go through the MQA process - for every album. Don't you know that....

Main listening (small home office):

Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments.

Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three .

Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup.
Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

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