T+a dac 8 dsd

[EdmontonCanuck]

9 hours ago, FatalethaL said:

I've got a question:

 

If I do Roon Core (Gaming PC) + HQP upsampling and then stream it to a Roon Bridge (Intel NUC or the likes with WinOS), and then to T+A, will it work?

 

Or, alternatively to Miska's response, you can use Roon's DSP upsampling instead of HQP to stream to your Roon Bridge NUC and then to your T+A. Note, I'm not trying to discourage you from Miska's HQPlayer NAA solution, as it's excellent, but rather just trying to provide you with another option you may not be aware of.

[craighartley]

3 hours ago, volpone said:

 

Sorry @craighartley , I would have helped you with this test, but I'm really scared that I might blow up my speakers if something went wrong with HQP volume control. I have no way to impose safety limit on my power amp inputs. Do you still get clicks ?

Thanks for the message, and I understand your caution. Yes I still get the clicks. I’ve put my transformer-based preamp back in, which subdues them. When the Covid19 situation has eased I may send the DAC back to T&A for checking. 

[volpone]

1 hour ago, craighartley said:

When the Covid19 situation has eased I may send the DAC back to T&A for checking. 

 

Did you talked about your issue with @OE333 ?

[craighartley]

29 minutes ago, volpone said:

 

Did you talked about your issue with @OE333 ?

Yes. T+A think it may be the Amanero firmware.  

[FatalethaL]

On 4/9/2020 at 12:08 AM, EdmontonCanuck said:

 

Or, alternatively to Miska's response, you can use Roon's DSP upsampling instead of HQP to stream to your Roon Bridge NUC and then to your T+A. Note, I'm not trying to discourage you from Miska's HQPlayer NAA solution, as it's excellent, but rather just trying to provide you with another option you may not be aware of.

  

On 4/8/2020 at 11:07 PM, Miska said:

 

If you use HQPlayer for upsampling, you cannot stream to Roon Bridge, instead you need to stream to HQPlayer NAA.

 

 

 

Thanks Miska and EdmontonCanuck for clarifying my cloudy thoughts in my mind. Cabin fever is real.

 

So am I right to say that I can do Roon Core + HQP upsampling on my gaming PC, and then connect to my passive endpoint PC which is a WinOS+HQP NAA (e.g. Intel NUC), and then USB connects to my T+A? FYI my home network uses MESH.

 

Another question - will the T+A work with a bootable NAA at DSD512? I am still using official T+A firmware.

[Miska]

6 hours ago, FatalethaL said:

So am I right to say that I can do Roon Core + HQP upsampling on my gaming PC, and then connect to my passive endpoint PC which is a WinOS+HQP NAA (e.g. Intel NUC), and then USB connects to my T+A? FYI my home network uses MESH.

 

Yes, that should work fine. If the wireless environment around you is not too crowded (so enough sustained speed), it should work to full DSD512.

 

6 hours ago, FatalethaL said:

Another question - will the T+A work with a bootable NAA at DSD512? I am still using official T+A firmware.

 

No, not with the original firmware. Only with the newer Amanero firmware.

 

[Gavin1977]

Does 2006be11 also play fine with Windows, or would you need to switch back to the manufacturers default firmware?

 

I'm hoping that 2006be11 is a 'fit and forget' update.

[Gavin1977]

On 4/11/2019 at 11:10 AM, Miska said:

 

I don't remember seeing 8 kHz packet noise on DAC8 DSD. It may always depend on overall system setup too, but in my case/setup at least.

 

 

Here's 1 kHz -120 dB tone being played at DSD256 and analog filter set to "clean".

 

Did you ever produce a set of graphs for PCM and DSD512 on the DAC8 as well?  This is quite an exceptional performance.

 

Also, I'm still finishing building my music server - can upsampled files from HQPlayer be saved locally so I can run these off a lower powered computer in the meantime?

[OE333]

18 hours ago, Gavin1977 said:

Does 2006be11 also play fine with Windows, or would you need to switch back to the manufacturers default firmware?

 

I'm hoping that 2006be11 is a 'fit and forget' update.

 

2006be11 is currently only available as original Amanero firmware (with Amanero VID/PID numbers).

To use this firmware with Windows you need to use the Amanero Windows driver - the driver from the T+A website will only work with firmware having a T+A VID/PID.

 

Using the Amanero driver 2006be11 should work with Windows and Linux - but I have not done extensive testing.

So maybe other users can post some of their experience ?

 

I will do some testing as soon as I find the time - I will then report my findings.

 

[louisxiawei]

On 6/17/2020 at 6:19 PM, OE333 said:

 

2006be11 is currently only available as original Amanero firmware (with Amanero VID/PID numbers).

To use this firmware with Windows you need to use the Amanero Windows driver - the driver from the T+A website will only work with firmware having a T+A VID/PID.

 

Using the Amanero driver 2006be11 should work with Windows and Linux - but I have not done extensive testing.

So maybe other users can post some of their experience ?

 

I will do some testing as soon as I find the time - I will then report my findings.

 

2006be11 works well on Linux. I’ve been testing it for two days, so far so good. Thanks for the tireless effort.

 

I will spend another few days to see if it goes well on windows and report it back.

 

 

 

[John K]

louisxiawei Thanks for testing the new firmware, have you been able to play DSD512 on linux without glitches based on new firmware?

I have been testing the firmware as well and it seems to be stable upto DSD256 but with DSD512 I get intermittent distortion (phase sound?) which makes me stop the music and play again (linux device is SOTM-SMS200 Ultra Neo). 

I will also test the windows firmware on lattepanda to see if it works well. It seems new one has been released just yesterday.  

[guiltyboxswapper]

10 hours ago, John K said:

I have been testing the firmware as well and it seems to be stable upto DSD256 but with DSD512 I get intermittent distortion (phase sound?) which makes me stop the music and play again (linux device is SOTM-SMS200 Ultra Neo). 

 

 

The "phase noise" you hear is the Amanero FW losing timing;  In short there's been an interruption to the datastream leading to this.  On streamers able to keep a stable signal this isn't an issue with be10/11 whatsoever though. 

 

It can be something as simple as background timer tasks interrupting the stream as I found on one streamer (!).

 

I had the same problem with the Ultra Neo before be10, I never found it very stable at DSD 512 rates tbh.  Sold mine on as a result.

 

edit: on XMOS based DACs you'll hear a quiet pop when this happens (streamer unable to keep buffers full).

[barrows]

I am using Amanero 2006be 11 with a DSC-2 DAC, and Sonore microRendu (linux) with no problems up to DSD 512.  This is via Roon RAAT.  Note, with this set up I do not run any other sample rates, so their is no sample rate switching happening, I just stay at either DSD 256 or DSD 512 all the time.  I do not know if there would be problems if I had sample rate switching between PCM-DSD...  As the DSC-2 only works with DSD anyway.

[craighartley]

Anyone tried 2006be13?

[fantasia]

18 hours ago, barrows said:

I am using Amanero 2006be 11 with a DSC-2 DAC, and Sonore microRendu (linux) with no problems up to DSD 512.  This is via Roon RAAT.  Note, with this set up I do not run any other sample rates, so their is no sample rate switching happening, I just stay at either DSD 256 or DSD 512 all the time.  I do not know if there would be problems if I had sample rate switching between PCM-DSD...  As the DSC-2 only works with DSD anyway.

Hi Barrows

 

Thank you for your post!

Since I am interested in your DAC, I followed the link to the DAC and was able to learn a lot about Daphile, which I also use and is my new reference!

http://www.audiodesignguide.com/DSC1/index.html

I will test the audio settings that harmonize optimally with the Amanero Combo384 board, as well as the new firmware 2006b13. (T + A DAC 8 DSD)

Thanks again and continue to enjoy your music!

Best regards

 

 

[John K]

On 6/27/2020 at 3:47 AM, guiltyboxswapper said:

 

The "phase noise" you hear is the Amanero FW losing timing;  In short there's been an interruption to the datastream leading to this.  On streamers able to keep a stable signal this isn't an issue with be10/11 whatsoever though. 

 

It can be something as simple as background timer tasks interrupting the stream as I found on one streamer (!).

 

I had the same problem with the Ultra Neo before be10, I never found it very stable at DSD 512 rates tbh.  Sold mine on as a result.

 

edit: on XMOS based DACs you'll hear a quiet pop when this happens (streamer unable to keep buffers full).

 

Thanks for the info guiltyboxswapper, maybe it’s time for me to look into new streamer options.

Any suggestions? Thinking about trying ultrarendu. 

[guiltyboxswapper]

57 minutes ago, John K said:

 

Thanks for the info guiltyboxswapper, maybe it’s time for me to look into new streamer options.

Any suggestions? Thinking about trying ultrarendu. 

 

I had to disable background timer tasks on my OpticalRendu + OpticalModule combo, then I got zero interrupts at DSD 512 rates.  Otherwise its excellent (for a standalone streamer).  Not cheap though.  

 

If you can stomach running a PC near your T+A, the JCAT XE gets my vote, with a suitably HQ 5v PSU.  I use the MPAudio LSIB just mentioned here.  It left all my streamers for dead.  Shortest path won out in the end (!).

[John K]

19 hours ago, guiltyboxswapper said:

 

I had to disable background timer tasks on my OpticalRendu + OpticalModule combo, then I got zero interrupts at DSD 512 rates.  Otherwise its excellent (for a standalone streamer).  Not cheap though.  

 

If you can stomach running a PC near your T+A, the JCAT XE gets my vote, with a suitably HQ 5v PSU.  I use the MPAudio LSIB just mentioned here.  It left all my streamers for dead.  Shortest path won out in the end (!).

 

Thanks for the advise! I will look into opticalrendu option as well.   

[guiltyboxswapper]

1 hour ago, John K said:

 

Thanks for the advise! I will look into opticalrendu option as well.   

 

One thing worth mentioning is the T+A literally scales with source quality input via DSD path, possibly due to the simpler yet very HQ discrete DSD implementation (lack of processing, pure).

 

I (had) an SMSL D1, a well measuring at least dual 9038 pro DAC.  I also had the "chosen" NUC i7.  Fitted Apacer industrial ram to it. 

 

The T+A took a big leap forward, bodies becoming very dimensional and fleshed out.  The other sounded like hifi still, pin-point placement but no flesh to it like the T+A.  Was startling to witness.  At that point I gave up on measurements....

[fantasia]

Firmware 2006be13 Feedback

 

I am happy to share my experience with the new firmware 2006be13 and the DAC8 DSD.

The DAC has significant problems with data recognition !!

With PCM he recognizes DSD64, but occasionally no sound whistles and it makes noise!

PCM audio files are not played at all, regardless of the resolution!

In addition, the DAC no longer automatically switches from DSD to PCM, not even after restarting the server and the DAC!

Conclusion:

The firmware 2006be13 is definitely junk!

I just flashed back to 2006 be11 !!
This runs perfectly, even without crackling between the DSD titles.

I definitely cannot recommend playing the 2006be13 and recommend not to use it!

 

Best Regards fantasia

[Gavin1977]

My feedback and thanks for @OE333 for the loan of the cable to update my DAC 8 DSD firmware to v2.7. 

 

I updated the Amanero firmware to version "DSD512x48x44" and CPLD version "CPLD_for_1080", CPU firmware version 2006be11.

 

I can report that this combination works fine with both Linux and Windows for me, however in Windows only the generic Amanero WASAPI driver works... the T+A AISO driver is not compatible.

 

So, this is definately a working solution and seems close to what might be needed for an official release - some immediate observations:

1. Custom drivers do still need to be produced, so that the DAC displays as 'T+A DAC 8 DSD' rather than 'Amanero Combo' in Windows etc...
2. Windows AISO driver needs to be produced.
3. Deployment... might be the most difficult and incur cost as you presently need to use the T+A custom cable and run SERV_MODE 97 to wipe the USB firmware prior to update, without this the update cannot be undertaken.  I don't know if it's possible for T+A to issue a future Firmware update that might allow wiping of the USB via USB cable, this would resolve a few issues and make deployment easier.

Anyhow hopefully we might have some feedback from T+A on their plans.

[OE333]

On 7/16/2020 at 11:42 AM, Gavin1977 said:

So, this is definately a working solution and seems close to what might be needed for an official release - some immediate observations:

1. Custom drivers do still need to be produced, so that the DAC displays as 'T+A DAC 8 DSD' rather than 'Amanero Combo' in Windows etc...
2. Windows AISO driver needs to be produced.
3. Deployment... might be the most difficult and incur cost as you presently need to use the T+A custom cable and run SERV_MODE 97 to wipe the USB firmware prior to update, without this the update cannot be undertaken.  I don't know if it's possible for T+A to issue a future Firmware update that might allow wiping of the USB via USB cable, this would resolve a few issues and make deployment easier.

Anyhow hopefully we might have some feedback from T+A on their plans.

 

Dear Gavin, regarding your observations I would like to give a few addiitonal hints and clarifications:

 

Re1: This is true. I know, that T+A is constantly monitoring the progress of the new Amanero firmware. As soon as this new firmware is mature and found to be working without any glitches with Windows and Linux, I am sure that T+A will release a new USB receiver firmware for the DAC8DSD. Up to now there are still some issues with the new Amanero firmware which keep T+A from releasing a new "T+A approved" firmware.

 

Re.2: If you update your USB receiver firmware to the latest Amanero version you can download and install the Amanero Windows driver on your Windows computer. This driver is a ASIO driver - my recommendation: install this Amanero driver and don't use WASAPI.

Linux (with a recent kernel version) should work "out of the box" without the need to install or patch anything.

 

Re3: For DAC8DSD with firmware 2.70 onwards there is no need of using the "SERV_MODE 97" command via serial connection. The update of the Amanero USB firmware can be initiated through some front panel button presses. The USB receiver update itself is then done via USB. How to do all this is described in the T+A service note S0143 (see link below):

https://github.com/OE333/DAC8-Service-Tool/blob/master/related_docs/S0143_DAC8DSD_Service_Mode.pdf

 

The serial cable is only needed one time to upgrade older DAC8DSD with firmware before 2.7x. After this is done you won't need the serial adapter cable  any more.

 

Please note: There is a easier way to upgrade DAC8DSDs with older firmware: The firmware update can be done via web-update through a T+A MP8 streamer. If you don't have one, you might ask your T+A dealer. Perhaps he can help and do the update in his shop. Only if this is not possible, the upgrade via serial adapter cable is necessary.

 

 

I hope my explanations above were helpful.

If anything is unclear don't hesitate to ask.

 

OE333

 

 

[Gavin1977]

2 hours ago, OE333 said:

 

Dear Gavin, regarding your observations I would like to give a few addiitonal hints and clarifications:

 

Re1: This is true. I know, that T+A is constantly monitoring the progress of the new Amanero firmware. As soon as this new firmware is mature and found to be working without any glitches with Windows and Linux, I am sure that T+A will release a new USB receiver firmware for the DAC8DSD. Up to now there are still some issues with the new Amanero firmware which keep T+A from releasing a new "T+A approved" firmware.

 

Re.2: If you update your USB receiver firmware to the latest Amanero version you can download and install the Amanero Windows driver on your Windows computer. This driver is a ASIO driver - my recommendation: install this Amanero driver and don't use WASAPI.

Linux (with a recent kernel version) should work "out of the box" without the need to install or patch anything.

 

Re3: For DAC8DSD with firmware 2.70 onwards there is no need of using the "SERV_MODE 97" command via serial connection. The update of the Amanero USB firmware can be initiated through some front panel button presses. The USB receiver update itself is then done via USB. How to do all this is described in the T+A service note S0143 (see link below):

https://github.com/OE333/DAC8-Service-Tool/blob/master/related_docs/S0143_DAC8DSD_Service_Mode.pdf

 

The serial cable is only needed one time to upgrade older DAC8DSD with firmware before 2.7x. After this is done you won't need the serial adapter cable  any more.

 

Please note: There is a easier way to upgrade DAC8DSDs with older firmware: The firmware update can be done via web-update through a T+A MP8 streamer. If you don't have one, you might ask your T+A dealer. Perhaps he can help and do the update in his shop. Only if this is not possible, the upgrade via serial adapter cable is necessary.

 

 

I hope my explanations above were helpful.

If anything is unclear don't hesitate to ask.

 

OE333

 

 

Brilliant - thank you so much!  I think it's very useful to have this summary and clarification.

[sbenyo]

In the pdf link, see that the USB firmware update can be done without need to open the DAC to erase the USB firmware.

If this is correct, it's great. I already updated the firmware to v2.70 and I did not want open the DAC for the USB update.

 

I also see there is a DSP update. Does anyone know what this means and how to do it?

 

[Gavin1977]

1 hour ago, sbenyo said:

In the pdf link, see that the USB firmware update can be done without need to open the DAC to erase the USB firmware.

If this is correct, it's great. I already updated the firmware to v2.70 and I did not want open the DAC for the USB update.

 

I also see there is a DSP update. Does anyone know what this means and how to do it?

 

Yes this is true - I found out the other day that provided you have firmware v2.7 then there is a certain combination of button presses you can use to wipe the USB firmware and update.  So everything can be done via USB 🙂

 

No idea about the dsp update though...