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T+a dac 8 dsd


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I cannot play DSD512 due to my Linux-based system (as I understand things, the DAC 8 DSD doesn't play above DSD128 from Linux without some non-factory authorized custom firmware upgrades). And, I don't have HQPlayer. But I can and do upsample to my DAC 8 at DSD128, using Roon. The difference in performance over PCM - all else kept equal in my system other than volume matching - is startling. The DAC 8 DSD could be described as two DACs in one box, and the DSD DAC is the clearly superior one of the two. That is not to say that the PCM performance isn't quite good, because it is, but it's not nearly as good as with DSD. And this is obvious to my ears, on my system, with just basic Roon up sampling to DSD128. I can only imagine what it does with DSD512 (and I won't be finding out absent a significant financial windfall to fund adequate replacements for my Roon core and endpoint). So put me down as also very interested in hearing what @FatalethaL finds when comparing the Mola Mola Tambaqui to the T+A DAC 8 DSD with the latter allowed to show off its real strength as a DSD player.

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5 hours ago, musicbuff said:

So, FatalethaL I'm looking forward to a "fairer" comparison when you get HQP and the ability to run your music files at 48/512.

 

I am looking forward to it myself too - to have HQP doing the sampling work. I spent some time catching up and formulating my understanding towards EC modulator and its requirements. However, I found myself disheartened that I cannot achieve the pinnacle of DSD work since my gaming PC seems dated. Anyway, I will try HQP when I recover some $$$.

 

 

P.S. I did compare Roon DSD D8D to Mola Mola PCM that day. I prefered the effortless, wholesome, detailed, and the expansive 3D soundstage of the Mola Mola that brings to my system. D8D sounded fuzzy in comparison.

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Oh, I was focusing on the following in your first post: " FYI, my D8D was on FIR Setting 1 (blue LED), and we listened to PCM playback only." I assumed that meant you did not listen to/compare the DSD 8 with DSD, via HQPlayer or otherwise. You and I both need to save our pennies if we are going to be listening to DSD512 via HQPlayer! There is always something new to buy in this hobby, alas.

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54 minutes ago, jiminlogansquare said:

Oh, I was focusing on the following in your first post: " FYI, my D8D was on FIR Setting 1 (blue LED), and we listened to PCM playback only." I assumed that meant you did not listen to/compare the DSD 8 with DSD via Roon. You and I both need to save our pennies if we are going to be listening to DSD512 via HQPlayer!

 

It's ok mate. When I was in the listening chair and comparing the DACs, it left me thinking about, "What's the point of comparing the DAC's highest level of performance when my DSD path is still not optimised? It will be unfair for the D8D." Therefore in the moment of posting my sharing and impressions, I intentionally left it out, and only reported PCM findings. By DAC design, I think and I believe both DACs are very competent yet optimised on PCM playback in their own regard.

 

Hence, the "fight" for the best performer will be postponed to another day. In the meantime, I am eagerly waiting for @Gavin1977 findings too! I think this is a good way to share findings collectively and there will be people in this forum (or even via google search) wanting to know if there are differences (if any) between D8D & other DAC, and a combination of PCM vs Roon DSD vs HQP DSD.

 

 

To share more on my Roon DSD512 setting.

  • DSD Sample Rate = DSD512
  • Sample Rate Conversion Filter = Smooth, Minimum Phase
  • Sigma-Delta Modulator = 7th Order (CLANS)
  • SDM Gain Adjustment = -6 dB
  • Parallelize Sigma-Delta Modulator = Enabled
  • Enable Native DSD Processing = YES
  • DSD to PCM Filter = 30k Hz Low Pass Filter
  • DSD to PCM Gain = +6 dB

 

54 minutes ago, jiminlogansquare said:

There is always something new to buy in this hobby, alas.

 

This is very true. It can get tiring or even frustrating... to try and squeeze every single dollar to make a purchase worthwhile. Underlying that, we are also enjoying ourselves to strike a balance (or sound signature) or a goal we are trying to achieve. At times, we can get overboard with ourselves & purchases too. Hehehe. I also think it is important to be realistic and be grounded... most of the time!

My mantra in this hobby is simple, "pace yourself, be contented, sometimes postponing a purchase can be rewarding." In my case, I delayed purchasing brand new speakers and then the Thiel Audio CS2.7 opportunity came up! I cannot let it slip ever again!

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3 hours ago, jiminlogansquare said:

I cannot play DSD512 due to my Linux-based system (as I understand things, the DAC 8 DSD doesn't play above DSD128 from Linux without some non-factory authorized custom firmware upgrades). And, I don't have HQPlayer. But I can and do upsample to my DAC 8 at DSD128, using Roon. The difference in performance over PCM - all else kept equal in my system other than volume matching - is startling. The DAC 8 DSD could be described as two DACs in one box, and the DSD DAC is the clearly superior one of the two. That is not to say that the PCM performance isn't quite good, because it is, but it's not nearly as good as with DSD. And this is obvious to my ears, on my system, with just basic Roon up sampling to DSD128. I can only imagine what it does with DSD512 (and I won't be finding out absent a significant financial windfall to fund adequate replacements for my Roon core and endpoint). So put me down as also very interested in hearing what @FatalethaL finds when comparing the Mola Mola Tambaqui to the T+A DAC 8 DSD with the latter allowed to show off its real strength as a DSD player.

 

Your sharing reminded me of my previous system where I was also using a linux based product and I can never do Roon DSD512. If i recall, my previous equipment was SoTM SMS200.

 

Well, I eventually got me a ASrock Deskmini 300 with AMD 3400G + 16GM ram, 512GB M.2 Storage, and then installed Win10 Pro. It is a very simple machine, easy to assemble, cheap and cheerful in the grand scheme of Audiophile things. Sonic performance from the previous to current, is a huge positive leap. You may want to consider this option or the likes of it.

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3 hours ago, FatalethaL said:

 

I am looking forward to it myself too - to have HQP doing the sampling work. I spent some time catching up and formulating my understanding towards EC modulator and its requirements. However, I found myself disheartened that I cannot achieve the pinnacle of DSD work since my gaming PC seems dated. Anyway, I will try HQP when I recover some $$$.

 

 

P.S. I did compare Roon DSD D8D to Mola Mola PCM that day. I prefered the effortless, wholesome, detailed, and the expansive 3D soundstage of the Mola Mola that brings to my system. D8D sounded fuzzy in comparison.


Interesting. I also saw someone commented the highs of D8D DSD512 sounded blurry compared to PCM.

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59 minutes ago, georgios said:


Interesting. I also saw someone commented the highs of D8D DSD512 sounded blurry compared to PCM.

 

I wouldn't be surprised since the sonic performance differ from system to system, also, an audiophile's dictionary to another audiophile's dictionary. It could also have been the system's character rather than the DAC's character if we view it's sonic performance from a systemic POV.

 

However, I can share that in my tests and findings thus far, Roon's sampling of DSD512 very much prefer a computer with a competent CPU with sufficient headroom. Previously when I was using an i5 4xxx series CPU, there was a significant sonic performance downside difference. Instead, music with DSD256 playback was much more pleasurable to listen to.

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19 minutes ago, mevdinc said:

I wonder if T+A DAC 8 DSD will see an upgrade soon using the latest DSD 1024 capabilities of the top-end T+A DACs. Even their latest HA 200 headphone amp does DSD 1024.
 

What would be really amazing is if they took a approach similar to PS Audio Direct stream - use a dedicated chip (e.g. xilinx fpga) to do all of the upsampling internally to DSD. so that only PCM input is needed.... that'd be great!

 

Other than that I don't see much need to - I can barely run DSD 256 with M-Sync and EC filters.

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10 hours ago, georgios said:

Agree. We just care how much we can squeeze out from one equipment to make the best out of it. DAC8 DSD shines at relatively low price when feeding DSD512 signals. I’m very interested in how good it is. Is it really ultimately analogue like? I’ve listened some very high quality DACs, if I want to buy it I want to make sure it is really worth the trouble swapping.

 

It is actually very analogue like - when fed correctly.  But as mentioned, by the time you've spent considerable sums feeding it correctly with DSD 512, one wonders if you should have just gone for the Mola Mola to begin with !

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8 hours ago, FatalethaL said:

P.S. I did compare Roon DSD D8D to Mola Mola PCM that day. I prefered the effortless, wholesome, detailed, and the expansive 3D soundstage of the Mola Mola that brings to my system. D8D sounded fuzzy in comparison.

Yes the T+A would to be fair.  A PC armed with https://jcat.eu/featured/usb-card-xe/ makes a significant difference (as @Gavin1977 can attest to himself lately, and myself). 

 

It's a DAC for those who are willing to put in the effort, but you can get good results by fitting a decent USB card in + external LPS for said USB card alone.  Even the damn USB cable makes a big difference with this DAC (using latest Sablon 2020 USB cable).

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1 minute ago, PieterJan said:

Hello all.

I read the comments on DSD upsampling, use of HQP and comparing D8D to other devices with interest. I used to run Roon Nucleus as the machine to upsample all my content (housed on a Melco N10) tot DSD512 using the Amanero 2006BE11 software on my D8D. All worked well and sounds great. I have never had the desire to deploy additional hardware in the source to speaker chain.

 

A few weeks ago Melco announced a new release for its streamers establishing them as "Roon Ready" devices. After some fiddling around I quickly returned to a direct USB connection from the Melco N10 to the D8D whilst being able to continue to use Roon as the solution for selecting, searching, discovering and obtaining background of my existing music portfolio or the portfolio delivered by Qobuz.

 

In my experience (and yes I do recognize it is a subjective experience) my setup using direct USB connection from streamer to D8D without any upsampling and ofcourse the accoustics of my listening environment deliver a much livelier, better placed and significantly better music experience then Roon upsampling tot DSD512 has ever been able to deliver. And yest that counts for PCM 44.1khz at 16 bit.

 

Don't count D8D with a direct USB connection out. There is only one device I would trade my D8D for and that is the SDV3100-HV, but at 9 times the D8D price that will take a little while.... hahaha.

 

Just my ten cents.

 

My set, Melco N10, D8D, P3100HV, PS3000HV, Kef reference5, Roon nucleus, AQvox switch, Farad power supplies for Nucleus and AQvox.

Nice setup.  This matches other peoples experience. 

 

However, once you have a Pink Faun, SGM Extreme or a very high end DIY server (like myself or guittyboxswapper which use a JCAT USB XE among other things), then a separate server / end-point no longer sounds better.  The one box solution wins.

 

Also, just running HQPlayer embedded off a USB stick sounds really good (better than Roon IMO, as it's really lightweight).

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31 minutes ago, Gavin1977 said:

However, once you have a Pink Faun, SGM Extreme or a very high end DIY server (like myself or guittyboxswapper which use a JCAT USB XE among other things), then a separate server / end-point no longer sounds better.  The one box solution wins.

 

 

Pretty much, it seems shortest high quality path wins. 

 

Ironically it was the opticalModule that highlighted how much difference the network makes when transmitting DSD 512 across it.  Significant.  You also get the added bonus that the DAC recovers gracefully 99% of the time after power down, which I never found was the case with NAA.

 

Hence everyone will pretty much get a different result, though often satisfactory with the T+A when playing DSD 512 at least.

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2 hours ago, PieterJan said:

Hello all.

I read the comments on DSD upsampling, use of HQP and comparing D8D to other devices with interest. I used to run Roon Nucleus as the machine to upsample all my content (housed on a Melco N10) tot DSD512 using the Amanero 2006BE11 software on my D8D. All worked well and sounds great. I have never had the desire to deploy additional hardware in the source to speaker chain.

 

A few weeks ago Melco announced a new release for its streamers establishing them as "Roon Ready" devices. After some fiddling around I quickly returned to a direct USB connection from the Melco N10 to the D8D whilst being able to continue to use Roon as the solution for selecting, searching, discovering and obtaining background of my existing music portfolio or the portfolio delivered by Qobuz.

 

In my experience (and yes I do recognize it is a subjective experience) my setup using direct USB connection from streamer to D8D without any upsampling and ofcourse the accoustics of my listening environment deliver a much livelier, better placed and significantly better music experience then Roon upsampling tot DSD512 has ever been able to deliver. And yest that counts for PCM 44.1khz at 16 bit.

 

Don't count D8D with a direct USB connection out. There is only one device I would trade my D8D for and that is the SDV3100-HV, but at 9 times the D8D price that will take a little while.... hahaha.

 

Just my ten cents.

 

My set, Melco N10, D8D, P3100HV, PS3000HV, Kef reference5, Roon nucleus, AQvox switch, Farad power supplies for Nucleus and AQvox.

Forgive my ignorance, but can you clarify your chain before and after? I'm confused where your roon library is (all on melco now instead of nucleus)?

 

My rig

 

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Sorry for not being clear. My music library has never been on the Nucleus. Prior to Melco N10 being "Roon Ready" the N10 was defined as a storage device in Roon. After the Melco software update (4.04b) the N10 is now recognized in Roon as an audio device.

 

Hope this clarifies my setup.

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I have read that DSD512 to the T+A should now be possible with Linux as well. Now does that mean that e.g. an OpticalRendu can feed DSD512 to the T+A? Anyone here using a Rendu successfully to feed DSD512 successfully to the T+A?

Apple Powerbook G4 15\", iTunes, Metric Halo LIO-8, active speakers

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1 hour ago, guiltyboxswapper said:

Yes I've done this, though had to turn off a few background task timers for it to be stable (i.e. not blip every hour or less).  Solid after that.

 

I am also currently using OpticalRendu to feed to DSD512 to DAC 8 DSD, works like a charm~!

(I did get advise from guiltyboxswapper to turn off a background task timers to get rid of occasional stoppage)

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Many thanks. This is very good to know. Thus it will make sense for me to demo the unit in my system. These background task timers are on your music servers right? Are those Macs or Win or Linux?

Apple Powerbook G4 15\", iTunes, Metric Halo LIO-8, active speakers

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On 10/23/2020 at 1:00 PM, Gavin1977 said:

What would be really amazing is if they took a approach similar to PS Audio Direct stream - use a dedicated chip (e.g. xilinx fpga) to do all of the upsampling internally to DSD. so that only PCM input is needed.... that'd be great!

 

Even if such feature would be there, question is what kind of filters and modulator would be there. Because that defines the performance as much as the D/A conversion process itself.

 

Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer

Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers

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7 hours ago, fds said:

Did anyone here compare the T+A to the Holo Audio Spring (2) both for DSD512? I have searched quite a bit but was not able to find any reports on this.

i'm interested too , i have sold by mistake my T+A Dac thinking that my digital crossover will do the task ..

so now i'm on the run again for a new dac so is there challengers for the T+A Dac 8DSD ins the same ballpark ?

HOLO spring 2 , denafrips Venus ?

PC audio /Roon + HQPLAYER / HOLO Spring 2 / / DIY AD1 SET tube amp  /  DIY Altec 2 way horn Speaker

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