Poll: Where are you along the cable divide?

[Paul R]

George

The attached was posted by Barry D. shortly after listening to the 2 comparison CDs that I sent him.

I have a more detailed email report by Barry that I am unable to post.

 

You do realize that Barry said bit for bit identical files sound precisely identical to him in this post?

[gmgraves]

George

The attached was posted by Barry D. shortly after listening to the 2 comparison CDs that I sent him.

I have a more detailed email report by Barry that I am unable to post.

 

 

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f7-disk-storage-music-library-storage/do-apple-lossless-files-really-sound-same-aiff-15557/index7.html#post220053

 

 

Why single me out for this? I have never even commented on your two comparison CDs. While I don't pretend to know why they sound different, I suspect that it might have something to do with read errors between the two discs. But that's just wild and very idle speculation on my part and means less than nothing.

[mansr]

It's a matter of degree. Cable resistance is measured in hundredths of an Ohm/ft. Belden RG-59U, for instance comes in at 0.053 Ohms per foot or 0.161 Ohms/meter. This is inconsequential in and of itself, but the delta between the resistance of this Belden brand cable and some other brand will be less than inconsequential, unless the cable manufacturer is deliberately making cable where the center conductor is drawn from some high resistance material to make the cable's resistance higher than normal for some reason.

 

Van Den Hul's carbon interconnects come to mind. I can't fathom what they were thinking when they decided to make them, but that's beside the point. Actually, they were probably thinking "I bet someone will buy them."

[esldude]

Van Den Hul's carbon interconnects come to mind. I can't fathom what they were thinking when they decided to make them, but that's beside the point. Actually, they were probably thinking "I bet someone will buy them."

 

Oh I had forgotten about those Van Den Hul's. Remember reading the review and thinking, "man I need what those guys are smoking. If I made cables like that I could afford it too."

[gmgraves]

Also, unless memory fails me, the really nasty parts of any cable are the connectors, which often have non-matched impendences, and cause all sorts of nasty reflections down the cable.

 

It do not think it would be surprising if two identical cables with significantly different connectors sounded a bit different. Thoughts?

 

That kind of difference should be measurable. If it isn't, then I'd say that they won't sound different. about RCA connectors and the quality of the connections possible with them, I read an article once in a British audio magazine about some tests that were carried out on Stabilant (Tweek) contact enhancer. While Stabilant absolutely works on sub-par connections (it fixed the intermittent speedo connections on my classic Alfa Romeo GTV-6) and it has mil-spec, and NASA part numbers as well as an SAE designation and is used in the manufacturing of automobiles as well as in the military and aerospace industries , This British test showed that it made absolutely no difference on RCA connections in audio gear. It seems that if the mating surfaces are clean and secure, the RCA already makes a gas-tight connection that is optimum and you can't get a better connection than one with no added resistance. They recommended just cleaning both parts of the connector with a little alcohol and pinch the male connector's barrel a bit to insure a tight fit, and you will have a perfect connection. So it seems that RCAs, in general, make decent connections for audio.

[gmgraves]

Van Den Hul's carbon interconnects come to mind. I can't fathom what they were thinking when they decided to make them, but that's beside the point. Actually, they were probably thinking "I bet someone will buy them."

 

 

I'll almost guarantee that's what "they" were thinking!

[davide256]

Cables matter but its a bit of a crap shoot finding which ones shine in your system. The incremental improvement from cables makes it hard to justify spending more than 10% of your system cost on the combination of cables you need.

[Mordikai]

I have heard very few systems that were so dialed that they were at the point they might as well start messing with the cables. I think in most instances it's a fiddling while Rome burns situation. I believe most of the money should go to speakers, then time with room setup, placement, equalization etc. At that point things sound pretty good. I like nicely constructed cables so I never buy the cheap stuff but I find it more interesting to try different amps, different speakers, placement and so on.

[Teresa]

Teresa

You are wasting your time. They don't believe Barry Diament either, or even the lady quoted below.

Regards

Alex

 

It appears so.

 

Sticking to my previous promise:

A double-blind test that distinguishes between bit-identical CD rips with different power supplies

 

Why? After Alex (Sandy) was exonerated and proved to be telling the truth by post #10 and post #44 from the Hi Fi Critic Forum. My hope was that this would go away forever! Damn!

 

…it is obvious he got a wrong answer.,.

 

Where did you come up with that idea? Please reread post #10 and post #44 from the Hi Fi Critic Forum.

 

Paul R. stop it already as I said “enough is enough!” End this now, Alex stated the facts correctly. The objectivists can go cry for all I care. Quit it!

[Paul R]

It appears so.

 

 

 

Why? After Alex (Sandy) was exonerated and proved to be telling the truth by post #10 and post #44 from the Hi Fi Critic Forum. My hope was that this would go away forever! Damn!

 

 

 

Where did you come up with that idea? Please reread post #10 and post #44 from the Hi Fi Critic Forum.

 

Paul R. stop it already as I said “enough is enough!” End this now, Alex stated the facts correctly. The objectivists can go cry for all I care. Quit it!

 

Theresa- last post in your thread.

 

Why the devil are you defending Alex instead of the target of all hs attacks? Why don't you Stop That!!??

 

And for the record, Alex has not stated facts, only fantasy.

[whoozwah]

well it looks like this thread isn't long before a lock...

[mordante]

I am a big time cable believer.

We are connecting our equipment together with cables so it really matters.

Of course, the better the equipment the more likely better cables will improve the sound.

Remember, "Only as good as the weakest link."

 

Many times cost is not the most important factor, it's how a cable meshes with the equipment and that takes some trial and error.

 

Here is my ranking of cable importance.

 

1. Power cords, with this includes outlets, and dedicated lines for Audio equipment

2. Analog cables, includes interconnects and speaker cables

3. Digital cables , includes AES and spdif and usb

 

I agree with you 100%

 

I wish I could afford decent power cables like Ansuz Mainz Aluminum. I could use a couple of them.

 

Why do measuring fetishists always get their panties in a twist when it concerns cables? The most fun thing is when those "measuring fetishists" or engineers use tube amps. Or tube DACs.

[mansr]

Why do measuring fetishists always get their panties in a twist when it concerns cables? The most fun thing is when those "measuring fetishists" or engineers use tube amps. Or tube DACs.

 

Tube amps are measurably different from SS amps. Some like the tube sound.

[mordante]

Tube amps are measurably different from SS amps. Some like the tube sound.

 

Tube amps just have a more harmonic distortion (in general) it seems some people like distortion.

[gmgraves]

Tube amps are measurably different from SS amps. Some like the tube sound.

 

 

Sure! Tube systems can sound great! They have an easy musicality that's very seductive. I prefer the precision and leaner sound of solid-state these days, but there was a time when I was very "into" tube sound. I had tube amps and a tube preamp for more than 20 years (Audio Research SP-11 and a pair of VTL 140 mono blocks).

[gmgraves]

Tube amps just have a more harmonic distortion (in general) it seems some people like distortion.

 

Generally speaking tube amps do measure higher in THD than do solid-state amps. However, it's not distortion per-se that tube lovers are hearing. It turns out that the human ear is quite insensitive to that kind of distortion and many amps with up to more than 2% measured THD simply don't sound distorted! There are a number of reasons why tube amps sound different from solid-state amps. It has to do with things like the design of the output transformers, the way tubes conduct, the power supply, etc. On the other hand, tube amps can be designed to minimize these characteristics and some don't sound like tube amps at all, and in fact are so neutral as to defy anyone to categorize them as tube or solid-state on sound alone!

[Sal1950]

Sure! Tube systems can sound great! They have an easy musicality that's very seductive. I prefer the precision and leaner sound of solid-state these days, but there was a time when I was very "into" tube sound. I had tube amps and a tube preamp for more than 20 years (Audio Research SP-11 and a pair of VTL 140 mono blocks).

 

Yep George, I also ran VTL Compact 80 monoblocks with a Stan McCormack passive line drive [preamp] for 20 years.

True is both SS and Tube amps can be designed to be very accurate and the audible difference between them surprising small.

But MANY of today's marketers in both camps design "boutique" amps to supply a particular desired sound. Witness the popularity of SET and Triode designs in general, very euphonic, but accurate?.

[sandyk]

On the other hand, tube amps can be designed to minimize these characteristics and some don't sound like tube amps at all, and in fact are so neutral as to defy anyone to categorize them as tube or solid-state on sound alone!

 

Especially those that use Grounded Grid topology as originally used in low noise RF amplifiers etc.

[gmgraves]

Yep George, I also ran VTL Compact 80 monoblocks with a Stan McCormack passive line drive [preamp] for 20 years.

True is both SS and Tube amps can be designed to be very accurate and the audible difference between them surprising small.

But MANY of today's marketers in both camps design "boutique" amps to supply a particular desired sound. Witness the popularity of SET and Triode designs in general, very euphonic, but accurate?.

 

That is correct. I have. personally, drawn the line there, though. I know a guy who has a pair of SET mono-blocks that he bought from China. They use some huge, exotic RF transmitter tube for an output and actually produce about 50 Watts each. They are gorgeous! Very impressive LOOKING, but I think they sound way too "soft" for my tastes, as do most SET amps. But he loves 'em; says that they sound "like music". What does he think a good SS amp sounds like, chopped liver? (OK, I'm mixing metaphors, so sue me!) Anyway, as you say, very euphonic but not very accurate

 

 

Not exactly like this one, but very similar...

[Allan F]

What does he think a good SS amp sounds like, chopped liver? (OK, I'm mixing metaphors, so sue me!)

Now that's a horse of a different feather!

[gmgraves]

Especially those that use Grounded Grid topology as originally used in low noise RF amplifiers etc.

 

That's one way to skin that particular cat, too be sure, but there are others. I heard, at a hi-fi show, a couple of years ago, a system consisting of a dCS CD Deck and DAC, a VTL tube preamp and a pair of their huge Siegfried II mono blocks (the size of a small refrigerator and costing US$65,000/pair) driving a pair of Wilson Audio Alexandria XLF loudspeakers (~US$250,000/pair). The sound was effortless and clean and not at all tube-like. I asked Luke Manley what he was doing differently in the Siegfrieds from what he was doing in the rest of tube line. He said the topology was the same as all the other VTL amps going back to his dad's original design, but the power supply was quite different from the rest of the VTL line and had a much lower source impedance (as well as a much higher B+ and oodles more current capability, obviously). He just paralleled more beam-power pentodes to get the output power required. Whatever he did, there was no obvious "tube" sound apparent, and I sat in that room listening for a couple of hours.

[gmgraves]

Now that's a horse of a different feather!

 

 

At least you're not burning your bridges before they hatch!

[sandyk]

You do realize that Barry said bit for bit identical files sound precisely identical to him in this post?

 

Do you have reading comprehension problems too ?

Read the actual post in the thread, and you will see that those words were actually posted by SPDIF- USB.

I highlighted Barry's reply in Bold type in my original reply .

 

 

Hi spdif-usb,

 

Quote Originally Posted by spdif-usb View Post

 

...I understand. However, bigger files take longer to download as well as pose an additional burden on those (myself included)

who are forced to live with a monthly capped internet volume. Since I could still uncompress the files after having downloaded them,

as well as because the process of uncompression would produce files that are bit for bit identical to the files you claim you prefer,

the thing that would then matter to me ultimately would be whether bit for bit identical files sound precisely identical to me (which, as a matter of fact, they do).

 

I also provided the actual thread link

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f7-disk-storage-music-library-storage/do-apple-lossless-files-really-sound-same-aiff-15557/index7.html#post220053

[Paul R]

You seem to have all the comprehension problems here. Read what you posted, then go take your meds.

 

"The thing that would then matter to me ultimately would be whether bit for bit identical files sound precisely identical to me (which, as a matter of fact, they do).

"

 

 

Do you have reading comprehension problems too ?

Read the actual post in the thread, and you will see that those words were actually posted by SPDIF- USB.

I highlighted Barry's reply in Bold type in my original reply .

 

 

Hi spdif-usb,

 

Quote Originally Posted by spdif-usb View Post

 

...I understand. However, bigger files take longer to download as well as pose an additional burden on those (myself included)

who are forced to live with a monthly capped internet volume. Since I could still uncompress the files after having downloaded them,

as well as because the process of uncompression would produce files that are bit for bit identical to the files you claim you prefer,

the thing that would then matter to me ultimately would be whether bit for bit identical files sound precisely identical to me (which, as a matter of fact, they do).

 

I also provided the actual thread link

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f7-disk-storage-music-library-storage/do-apple-lossless-files-really-sound-same-aiff-15557/index7.html#post220053

[Sal1950]

Do you have reading comprehension problems too ?

 

Can we PLEASE restrict this discussion to the other thread started for it?