AC Filtering, Grounding Boxes, Linear PSU and Balanced Power.

[Cornan]

11 minutes ago, archtype said:

Thanks again for your suggestions.  I shall be upgrading my Topaz for a 2.4kVA 0.0005 pF unit (ordered but not here).  

My question again:  Is there a place for modalities designed to block "leakage current" (other than filtering AC main with ultra-low capacitance IT)?  I would guess that most commercially available power conditioners have them built in already--part of the "Black Box".  For those not relying on third party all-in-one "black box" power conditioning solutions, do you find benefit from modalities designed to directly address "leakage current", or is a good IT enough?

 

The Topaz will block leakage currents on its own, so no need to worry!  All you'll need to worry about it the ones not connected to the Topaz! ?

On a second note daisy chained floating grounds have proven beneficial in my setup.

[EuroChamp]

1 hour ago, Speed Racer said:

 

You mean "which could bring the transformer into saturation". That's not likely to happen UNLESS you pick an isolation transformer that is too small for the job.

 

Yes of course, first there has to be enough DC on the mains. Saturation in this case has nothing to do with the load on the secondaries of the IT (= too small for the job). A larger IT has an even lower internal DC resistance, because of thicker primary windings. As a result, a larger IT is more prone to DC.

 

A 1kVA should serve most of our stereos. But there are some heavy duty amps, which need more.

 

What is true, not all transformer designs are equally prone - torodials are worse, beside some advantages of their design.

[archtype]

Topaz 91002-32 2.4 kVA, 0.0005 pF 120V.  

[EuroChamp]

1 minute ago, archtype said:

Topaz 91002-32 2.4 kVA, 0.0005 pF 120V.  

 

An amazing piece of a transformer - wow!  Not exactly cheap too.

[ted_b]

I've searched the later part of the thread a bit, and other than John's initial enclosure (stuffed fiberfill in nested boxes; I know it's more than that but you get the idea) I've found nothing about what anyone's done to cover their Topaz to limit the hum yet allow for air flow (and reduce the eye soreness on a god awful industrial Topaz unit)  Anyone have a drawing or pic?  You seriously do not want to see my hideous temp solution (upturned plastic milk crate with small pillows bungee corded to the outside perimeter). 

[Cornan]

4 minutes ago, ted_b said:

I've searched the later part of the thread a bit, and other than John's initial enclosure (stuffed fiberfill in nested boxes; I know it's more than that but you get the idea) I've found nothing about what anyone's done to cover their Topaz to limit the hum yet allow for air flow (and reduce the eye soreness on a god awful industrial Topaz unit)  Anyone have a drawing or pic?  You seriously do not want to see my hideous temp solution (upturned plastic milk crate with small pillows bungee corded to the outside perimeter). 

 

Except putting a DC blockers pre the Topaz it is recommended to put the IT on a hard surface (Rock solid) and not close to a wall to minimize the hum noises. That said it is not always convenient to do so. I have a Ultra IT making hum noises. I have it in a closed cobburn covered with Auralic MoPads all around. Still I'll have it plugged into a AC wall switch so I can turn it off while not in use.

[archtype]

I have two EVS 500M monoblocks (class D, 500 watts into 8 ohms), a Gallo Subwoofer Amp (850VA), feeding Gallo Reference 3.1 speakers (88 dB, 8 ohms).  Even though I don't prefer high amplitude listening, I felt like I needed some headroom in terms of power.  

[Cornan]

2 minutes ago, archtype said:

I have two EVS 500M monoblocks (class D, 500 watts into 8 ohms), a Gallo Subwoofer Amp (850VA), feeding Gallo Reference 3.1 speakers (88 dB, 8 ohms).  Even though I don't prefer high amplitude listening, I felt like I needed some headroom in terms of power.  

Good thinking. Those monoblocks & sub needs a powerful IT!

[allhifi]

3 hours ago, Cornan said:

You're welcome allhifi!

What you should remember with isolation transformers is not to exceed 75% of the power load. You'll need the extra +25% over-head for it to perform optimal.

Personally I am thinking of getting a separate floating IT for my turntable. Since it interfeares with my current floating IT I do not want to plug it there. I'll guess a separate one for the turntable could improve SQ though.

 

Hey Cornan: I'm pleased you derived some satisfaction to your recommendations for (archtype I'm guessing) that I commented upon.

However, in no way, shape or form (would your rec's) influence my preferences regarding either center-tapped IT's or not. Nor my beliefs regarding AC Regeneration and its amazing synergy with digital equipment.

I was simply observing that some DIY'ers here would gain some insight and thus be grateful, thus completing your cordial acknowledgment. 

 

pj         

[Cornan]

11 hours ago, allhifi said:

 

Hey Cornan: I'm pleased you derived some satisfaction to your recommendations for (archtype I'm guessing) that I commented upon.

However, in no way, shape or form (would your rec's) influence my preferences regarding either center-tapped IT's or not. Nor my beliefs regarding AC Regeneration and its amazing synergy with digital equipment.

I was simply observing that some DIY'ers here would gain some insight and thus be grateful, thus completing your cordial acknowledgment. 

 

pj         

 

Hi Pj!

Nothing beats real life experiances. No one could really tell what will be the optimal solution in everyone's setup.

Both AC Regen's and balanced isolation transformers are great. No doubt in my mind there. I just beleive that they always should be followed by a floating ground for best results in a digital chain. However, personal experiances always rules! ?

 

Micael

[mourip]

20 hours ago, ted_b said:

I've searched the later part of the thread a bit, and other than John's initial enclosure (stuffed fiberfill in nested boxes; I know it's more than that but you get the idea) I've found nothing about what anyone's done to cover their Topaz to limit the hum yet allow for air flow (and reduce the eye soreness on a god awful industrial Topaz unit)  Anyone have a drawing or pic?  You seriously do not want to see my hideous temp solution (upturned plastic milk crate with small pillows bungee corded to the outside perimeter). 

 

I hide my Topaz behind one of a pair of freestanding acoustic absorption panels that I have behind my speakers. I only hear the hum/buzz when I put my head behind the panel.

[monteverdi]

I heard a demonstration of the CAD ground control at this year's HighEnd and was quite impressed but thought that it was far too expensive for what it is. Then I was reading http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews2/gutwire/1.html

which cost much less and are just a single wire to ground with surrounding layer of stuff acting as a filter.

 

So I decided to make just a little experiment. I soldered a 12 awg wire to the outer part (ground) of an old RCA (center pin unused) and connected that wire to the ground pin of an AC plug. When I connected that RCA to an spare input of my Devialet Pro and plugged it in a wall outlet (ground) I noticed a obvious sound improvement especially im the definition of the lows but also the rest of the spectrum.

I wonder if I need some fairy dust for further improvements

[Speedskater]

How are writers like at 6moons able to write so many words about nothing? If you connect a wire to a RCA chassis connector just like in the 6moons photo, it will be a noise/interference antenna.

 

a single wire to ground with surrounding layer of stuff does not act as a filter.

[Speed Racer]

36 minutes ago, Speedskater said:

How are writers like at 6moons able to write so many words about nothing? If you connect a wire to a RCA chassis connector just like in the 6moons photo, it will be a noise/interference antenna.

 

a single wire to ground with surrounding layer of stuff does not act as a filter.

 

Amen. I was looking at the date to see if that 6moons review was written on April 1st......

[rickca]

3 hours ago, Speedskater said:

How are writers like at 6moons able to write so many words about nothing?

I call it 6times because I have to read their reviews 6 times to see if they actually said something of value.

[allhifi]

On 7/8/2017 at 6:53 AM, Cornan said:

 

Hi Pj!

Nothing beats real life experiances. No one could really tell what will be the optimal solution in everyone's setup.

Both AC Regen's and balanced isolation transformers are great. No doubt in my mind there. I just beleive that they always should be followed by a floating ground for best results in a digital chain. However, personal experiances always rules! ?

 

Micael

 

 

Hi Micael: Duly noted. And indeed, there are many variables in each and every hi-fi set-up.

 

However,  although "personal experience always rules" is fair and fine, it essentially only applies to one's own experience level.

 

If one (we) find ourselves here on this forum to shed some (experienced) insight, we need to evaluate the topic /concerns in more detail, if we wish to gather some much-needed clarity in order to extract the finest performance (from said component) --with the least amount of investment (time & dollars).

 

peter jasz    

[marce]

On 08/07/2017 at 7:29 PM, monteverdi said:

I heard a demonstration of the CAD ground control at this year's HighEnd and was quite impressed but thought that it was far too expensive for what it is. Then I was reading http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews2/gutwire/1.html

which cost much less and are just a single wire to ground with surrounding layer of stuff acting as a filter.

 

So I decided to make just a little experiment. I soldered a 12 awg wire to the outer part (ground) of an old RCA (center pin unused) and connected that wire to the ground pin of an AC plug. When I connected that RCA to an spare input of my Devialet Pro and plugged it in a wall outlet (ground) I noticed a obvious sound improvement especially im the definition of the lows but also the rest of the spectrum.

I wonder if I need some fairy dust for further improvements

Considering the lengths most go too to isolate the signal ground from chassis and protective earth, never mind the creation of ground loops etc. probably not the best mod. Any measurements as casual listening tells us nothing about what is going on, only what you perceive.

[allhifi]

3 minutes ago, marce said:

Considering the lengths most go too to isolate the signal ground from chassis and protective earth, never mind the creation of ground loops etc. probably not the best mod. Any measurements as casual listening tells us nothing about what is going on, only what you perceive.

 

Hi Marce: Very, very true --and insightful  ...

 

"Considering the lengths most go too to isolate the signal ground from chassis and protective earth, never mind the creation of ground loops etc. probably not the best mod".

 

Indeed, it is not (the best mod) ! 

 

peter jasz

[allhifi]

On 7/7/2017 at 3:49 PM, Cornan said:

 

If there is a word I truly hate it is the word expectation bias. It is the most worthless word ever used in the audiophile world. It tells you nothing about anything. Expectation bias is the most subjective word that you can dig up, so I do understand why you want to use it in defence. But common, bring something more firm to prove your statements! 

Really, why is a DC blockers useless in a tech point of view?

 

Cornan: Great point. It is a useless statement ! (RE: expectation bias)

 

For someone to suggest "it CAN'T" change the sound, has not the required experience --whatever the topic/tweek discussed.   

 

pj

[marce]

Expectation bias does exist though, to deny it does is wrong... it effects us all.

Most things will change the shape of the analogue wave fed to the speakers and all this can be measured, the point is: Is it at an level that will be audible, in a lot of cases NO, and night and day differences disappear under controlled listening tests.

[allhifi]

30 minutes ago, marce said:

Expectation bias does exist though, to deny it does is wrong... it effects us all.

Most things will change the shape of the analogue wave fed to the speakers and all this can be measured, the point is: Is it at an level that will be audible, in a lot of cases NO, and night and day differences disappear under controlled listening tests.

 

Hi Marce: I'm not denying it exists, however, it affects me not. It simply has no influence on my SQ experiences (expectations, denials, beliefs etc. (I do indeed stroll to a different  beat)

 

With that said, for me, it's essential to repeat the experiment to confirm consistent observations. When (and if)  consistent, repeatable interpretations (occur after days-turn-to-months-and-years evaluations) holds considerable weight --and authenticity. Particularly so, if shared by others.

Verifying "collective wisdom" is something we should seek, and/or the reasons for (wildly) varying interpretations explored.

 

peter jasz   

[Johnseye]

9 minutes ago, allhifi said:

 

Hi Marce: I'm not denying it exists, however, it affects me not. It simply has no influence on my SQ experiences (expectations, denials, beliefs etc. (I do indeed stroll to a different  beat)

 

 

Really?  You should start a consulting business.  If you are immune to all bias your services are in high demand.

[allhifi]

1 minute ago, Johnseye said:

 

Really?  You should start a consulting business.  If you are immune to all bias your services are in high demand.

 

Sarcastic or not, I really, really should. However, what you fail to recognize and clearly  appreciate is how "my" experiences can be gauged, or evaluated --remember the term "collective wisdom"?

 

If I, general but critical listener's, respected reviewer's (if any remain) and the most (what should be the most) telling component of all --the sheer strength of elapsed time itself (if listening interpretations are consistent)  should demonstrate, if nothing else, a  valuable "Collective Wisdom". 

 

pj  

[Johnseye]

1 minute ago, allhifi said:

 

Sarcastic or not, I really, really should. However, what you fail to recognize and clearly  appreciate is how "my" experiences can be gauged, or evaluated --remember the term "collective wisdom"?

 

If I, general but critical listener's, respected reviewer's (if any remain) and the most (what should be the most) telling component of all --the sheer strength of elapsed time itself (if listening interpretations are consistent)  should demonstrate, if nothing else, a  valuable "Collective Wisdom". 

 

pj  

 

Seriously.  If you are truly immune to bias then you have a gift.  There are folks with perfect pitch, which can be learned, who setup audio equipment.  I don't know if you can truly be immune to bias.  I suspect not, but if you believe it, more power to you.

[Ralf11]

On 7/6/2017 at 2:00 PM, Speed Racer said:

 

How about the TrippLite PS2408RA for $48.25.

 

There is nothing wrong with these power strips. They are well made and, as John Swenson tells us, putting everything on a single power strip "dramatically cuts down on the impedance between boxes, significantly lowering noise generated by leakage loops."

 

Whoa! Hey now, you are not supposed to explain the physics or electronics of why something works