AC Filtering, Grounding Boxes, Linear PSU and Balanced Power.

[Cornan]

The GND-lift worked beautiful as well. Sounds a notch better with the USB ground lifted as well. Looking very promising! ?

[Cornan]

@marce

It would be interesting to hear your opinion about these "electronic black holes" which are suppose to reduce EMI in chassis and shieldings using high density semiconductor wafers in a epoxy mix inside a wooden box http://www.ebay.com/itm/272683625107?

 

I have just ordered 3 pcs just because they are cheap and I have a curious nature. I will eventually find out myself, but it would still be interesting to know if this could be a good thing or not in your proffessional opinion. ?

[Speedskater]

Don't be so gullible all they do is move money from your wallet to theirs.

[jabbr]

Has anyone tried English Cream Golden Retriever hair as the dielectric between AC power cables and their shield? I have a source!

[Ralf11]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/09/golden-retriever-festival_n_3731865.html

[Cornan]

? Well guys, you do not dissapoint anyone with a suspicious mind! ? I find them quite interesting and will in any case give them a try to find out if they'll make or brake IRL. 

[marce]

A couple of issues:

Quote

Connecting wire and clip: 15cm copper wire +copper clip (the clip support Custom-made)

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/?iid=231934179383&&&adgroupid=33676502101&rlsatarget=pla-271883336555&abcId=893836&adtype=pla&merchantid=113733316&poi=&googleloc=1006530&device=c&campaignid=707291931&crdt=0&chn=ps

 

I do think that if anything it will act as a monopole whip antenna. A quick way is to hold it next to a car remote and see if you can increase the distance with the device held in your hand with the remote and without.

I love their get out clause at the end of the advert:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/272683625107

Quote

Pls note : We can't 100% gurantee the Ground box have the expected effect  ,because it is Subjective feelings，Different person ,different device ,different condition and enviroment can let the respond different ,someone respond the ground box with great effect,another person respond the box with little effect .

 

With a battery powered system you can be totally detached from the noisy mains, a great advantage. The only noise you have to cater with is the systems self created noise (for digital look up "simultaneous switching noise", analogue TI and Linear if you want to delve that deep and any that the systems wiring may pick up).

 

 

Just for info found this during my searches...

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiys-3-3ovUAhVLIMAKHYL2B_YQFggtMAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Felectrical.theiet.org%2Fwiring-matters%2F16%2Fearthing-questions.cfm%3Ftype%3Dpdf&usg=AFQjCNGgVmZa42MaWWheFH0je93n2TQVdg

 

 

[marce]

39 minutes ago, jabbr said:

Has anyone tried English Cream Golden Retriever hair as the dielectric between AC power cables and their shield? I have a source!

No but I have bags and bags of my German Sheppard's hair... 

Free.

[Cornan]

10 minutes ago, marce said:

With a battery powered system you can be totally detached from the noisy mains, a great advantage. The only noise you have to cater with is the systems self created noise (for digital look up "simultaneous switching noise", analogue TI and Linear if you want to delve that deep and any that the systems wiring may pick up).

 

Thanks marce! I found this part very interesting. Great to get tip what to search for to understand self created noises. ?

 

Great to know what you'll expect from this tweak. I am hoping for more though. Let's see what happens when it turns up! This is pure fun to me whatever the outcome will be! ?

 

I have saved your link and will make sure to read it, thanks!

[Ralf11]

38 minutes ago, marce said:

No but I have bags and bags of my German Sheppard's hair... 

Free.

 

That always sound a bit sterile to me tho it is obedient to the music.  Golder Retriever fur wrapped cables give a much greater sense of warmth and liquidity.

[allhifi]

rottikid: Wonderful (deserving) plug for Equi=tech Balanced/Symmetrical Power Units.

 

Of interest to me would be the reasons the "The "Q" is superior to the "Son of "Q" for example ? 

 

I would suspect (but cannot confirm) superior transformer design or manufacture, superior AC outlets, and hopefully a "cleaner" wiring layout (and even perhaps wire quality --feeding the AC outlets) of the more expensive "Q" models ?

 

Personally, I wold like to see a multi-transformer design: a dedicated, separate and smaller transformer (completely isolated from main one). This would eliminate any cross-contamination that I believe must exist (as listening observations bore out) when too many components "load" the transformer. I'm not speaking of over-loading the capricious transformer capability, but rather subjective impressions (of sound quality) when multiple products are connected/powered --specifically when digital gear is introduced.

 

Exact Power saw fit to introduce a 2nd model (or second gen.? SP-15 X 4) of Balanced-Symmetrical units utilizing four separate, completely isolated transformers (suitable for front-end or source components) of 400-500 watt rating as opposed to a massive 1.5 Kva or larger single tranny. Do not confuse EP's EP-15 --that was a voltage regulator device, I felt offered positive VIDEO improvements, but diminished audio quality !

 

Look forward to some insight on the Equi=tech line-up.

 

peter jasz 

[Speedskater]

Balanced AC power is very expensive and way overrated by it's proponents.

 

A large permanent Isolation Transformer wired as a Separately Derived System has almost all the goodness of a balanced AC system at lower cost and less code problems.

[allhifi]

speedskater : WHAT ? How can it be overrated by its supporters (or proponents as you say) ?

 

And " A large permanent Isolation Transformer wired as a Separately Derived System has almost all the goodness of a balanced AC system at lower cost and less code problems" ?????  

 

What are you blathering ? It makes no sense whatsoever --technically or grammatically.

 

pj 

[Speedskater]

Which parts don't you understand?

[allhifi]

Find something else to entertain yourself.

 

pj

[jabbr]

3 hours ago, Speedskater said:

Balanced AC power is very expensive and way overrated by it's proponents.

 

A large permanent Isolation Transformer wired as a Separately Derived System has almost all the goodness of a balanced AC system at lower cost and less code problems.

 

In many cases the same isolation transformers can be wired as balanced. http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/power-supplies/104346-please-help-isolation-balanced-power-question.html I have an Equitech Q in my audio area and it is terrific. I also have a collection of Topaz units that I've picked up for very little $ but these need to be wired so more of a DIY or have an electrician work with. These can certainly be wired as balanced. Once you factor the cost of the electrician they may still be cheaper depending.

[Speedskater]

3 hours ago, allhifi said:

speedskater : WHAT ? How can it be overrated by its supporters (or proponents as you say) ?

pj 

Jim Brown writes:

Balanced power is often touted as the ultimate cure for hum and buzz in project studios. The reality is that it can offer no more than 6-10 dB of reduction in hum and buzz coupled into audio and video system.

 

Balanced power systems are expensive, and their noise reduction capability is limited to about 10 dB. Isolated ground systems and/or local bonding are generally far more effective and much less costly solutions.

 

 

Bill Whitlock writes:

 

So-Called “Balanced Power”

• Properly called SYMMETRICAL power

• Has very seductive intuitive appeal

• NOT similar to balanced audio lines in any way!

• Uses transformer having 120 V center-tapped secondary

• Both line and neutral output blades are energized at 60 V

• Although advertising often implies endorsement, NEC seriously restricts

its use – because it’s potentially dangerous!

• ONLY FOR PROFESSIONAL USE

• NOT to be used with lighting equipment, especially screw-base bulbs

• MUST have GFCI at outputs

 

• Only technical function is to reduce leakage currents

• Leakage currents are trivial system noise sources

• Reported noise reduction generally less than 10 dB

• Any real benefit likely due to its clustered outlet

 

This is an example of “marketing gone wild” if ever there was one!

 

(schematic not shown)

The theory is pretty simple: if symmetrical (equal but opposite in stantaneous polarity) AC voltages are applied to equal-valued capacitors, say C1 and C2 above, the two current flows would also be equal but opposite and cancel each other ... no net current into safety ground. But leakage currents flowing in safety ground wiring are not a significant source of ground voltage differences ... as so many apparently believe.

 

[allhifi]

jabbr: Excellent point, comparisons and options.

 

 pj

[Speedskater]

On special NEC code rules, Jim Brown again writes:

NEC 647, which defines the requirements for balanced power systems, places some important restrictions on both their installation and use. 

1. Conductors must be sized so that the voltage drop does not exceed 1% of the line voltage under a load equal to 50% of the branch circuit current rating, and so that the combined voltage drop of the feeders and the branch circuit wiring does not exceed 2%. 

2. A dedicated Equipment Ground conductor must be run to all equipment and each receptacle. 

3. All receptacles must be protected by a GFCI. 

4. The neutral must be bonded per NEC 250, and must also be connected to the grounded conductor of the circuit that feeds the system. 

5. Balanced power systems are restricted to industrial and commercial occupancies. 

6. All outlets “shall have a unique configuation” and must be identified using specific language called out in NEC 647.7. 

7. There must be a receptacle having a grounded circuit conductor (i.e., conventional unbalanced power) within 6 ft of each receptacle for the balanced power system. 

8. All lighting fixtures connected to balanced power must be specifically rated for 60/120 VAC balanced power, must “have a disconnecting means that interrupts

all ungrounded conductors,” and must be permanently installed. 

9. Isolated ground receptacles are permitted.

[Jud]

27 minutes ago, allhifi said:

jabbr: Excellent point, comparisons and options.

 

 pj

 

You do realize he was agreeing to a fair extent with Speedskater, right?

 

Also, please pay close attention to the code requirements Speedskater's references discuss.  These are safety related and nothing to fool with.

 

Speedskater is correct in saying leakage currents don't normally represent significant voltage differences (thus noise sources).  John Swenson has authored comments that pretty well agree with this.  What John goes on to say, however, is that other noise sources are often dealt with in our audio systems to the point where leakage currents might be one of the only remaining relatively significant sources of the last little bit of noise.

 

 If/when that is the case, an isolation transformer with the correct specs and properly wired can do a fine job with it, as jabbr, John Swenson and others have noted.

[Speedskater]

Those are Jim Brown's or Bill Whitlock's words not mine.

 

Let me point out (again, maybe) that portable corded balanced and isolation transformers have different functions and safety rules than permanent hard-wired transformers.

[jabbr]

45 minutes ago, Speedskater said:

Those are Jim Brown's or Bill Whitlock's words not mine.

 

Let me point out (again, maybe) that portable corded balanced and isolation transformers have different functions and safety rules than permanent hard-wired transformers.

 

Right. I also see a role for both (and personally use both). Neither are panaceas. Rule of thumb is to look at $/lb ratio.

[allhifi]

speedskater (and JB & BW): That's wonderful. 

 

And what one (if any) makes your system sound better; 

Isolation transformer (center-tapped or not), or AC wall power ?

 

Referencing safety code, out-of-context --or for hard-wired applications (or whatever has been recited) has no purpose or meaning regarding a "portable" Isolation Transformer (whether center-tapped or not) AC power supply/conditioner. 

 

Noise or hum is not a problem (for most), or the reason users take advantage of these devices --it's simply for SQ improvement that nearly each and every user/owner feels. And many have not only one, but two or three in their systems --year-after-decade-after-listener-after-another, bot audiophiles and professionals.  ....  and you say, what ?

(Can't say I heard (of) many audiophiles electrocuted by their Balanced/Symmetrical AC power units !)

 

pj   

P.S. This topic is done --for me.

 

[jabbr]

@allhifi this topic will never be done because there's so much misunderstanding  

 

Regarding the Equi-tech: it's a really solid well made and well executed piece of equipment: what @Speedskater's post should point out is that there are safety issues that are real but that's also why many people want to purchase a product that deals with these issues.

 

There are also commercial isolation transformers-- Plitron has recently spun off its division that makes stand alone units, and Schneider makes really industrial units.

 

That said, the Topaz transformers are very high quality and low leakage current. They are/were intended for industrial usage and can be wired many ways. It is incumbent in the user to ensure that they are being wired safely-- but that's no different than a DIY amp  

 

So let's just consider that the Equi-tech price reflects that it's not a DIY part, and the current Topaz prices are like scoring an unobtanium 1970's Sony transistor for pennies.

[allhifi]

Hi jabbr: A sensitive and smart reply.

 

There is no misunderstanding on my part; I'm not here to personally endorse Equi=tech, though I would suggest the company as one of the few to consider.

 

There are alternatives (as you point out), such as Plitron's "Torus" line of IT's. Yet, the company's "explanation" that not centering tapping (symmetrical operation) being superior to symmetrical operation is questionable since in the same breath they say: " but our (big-boy) mains unit (at the circuit box itself ) is a fully symmetrical device --offering even better performance (than our Iso units)" !

 

Your thorough understanding, fine writing, communication skills and maturity are a real plus for all readers here.

 

Let's forget the almost ridiculous notion (possibility) of serious injury from a a symmetrically balanced 1Kva, 1.5Kva unit on a 15 amp circuit --for high-resolution audio equipment: its never happened !

 

The millions of weekend electricians wiring rooms, doing modifications, extensions etc. are to be feared, not a sensible transformer wiring company offering 5-15A symmetrical power in a purpose-built chassis.   

 

I can only imagine the terror incited regarding AC power re-generation 

units by the 'safety crowd'. (Indeed personal safety is paramount --in all cases and situations).

 

People are being misled into dubious alternatives to hi-fi power "conditioning". Suggesting and even strongly recommending a transformer-based Isolation transformer operating in or out of symmetrical connection has proven a very effective and consistent manner in which to improve SQ (namely and simply "clarity" ) from hi-fi equipment.

And, if you really want to know what "shitty" AC power (rather the vagaries of typical AC power lines) has on audio gear, find yourself a properly engineered AC power re-generator (300-watt is fine), power your DAC and CDP through it and finally discover what "digital" can finally sound like. 

 

If one is not a passionate (and sensible) "listener", and not invested countless hundreds/thousands of hours experimenting within the industry --ground floor, they do not have the requisite experience or perspective demanded (in fact required) to analyze, seek and report on, literally, ground-breaking discoveries --perhaps independent from common belief or hi-fi lore.

In all cases, a genuine, collective effort (grass roots so-to-speak) can often reveal the most trustworthy --and repeatable, confirmatory recommendations.

 

pj