AC Filtering, Grounding Boxes, Linear PSU and Balanced Power.

[Speedskater]

Yes, when powering big amps thru an isolation transformer, always over size the  I.T. a lot.

[allhifi]

48 minutes ago, Speed Racer said:

Ah, I see. You are one of those folks that believes that $1000 power cords make a real discernible difference. Now I understand.....

 

Who is "one of those folks" ? Did the topic change direction ?

 

pj

[Cornan]

I do not know if it is worth the effort to go into this discussions, but I'll take the gamble! ?

 

Here is a few of my impressions using a isolation transformer with floating secondary. I must emphecise that my impressions are NOT intirely consistent with John Swensson in all regards.

 

1. Use a floating IT for all AC powered devices in the setup EXCEPT for battery chargers and turntable.

2. Add a DC blocker pre the floating IT. I know this is not recommended by JS, but very beneficial to SQ IMO.

3. Add the battery chargers plus turntable to a simple powerstrip connected to the AC wall socket beside the one connected to the floating IT.

4. Add all remaining AC powered devices to a simple powerstrip connected to the floating IT.

5. Enjoy! ?

 

No need to worry about the BK 1604A until you connect something that draws a lot of currents like power amp(s). If you got powerful amps you'll just need to buy more BK's! 

 

Good luck! ?

 

[Speedskater]

Not sure what an I.T. with a floating secondary is, but the Safety Ground/Protective Earth needs to be connected according to code.

Note that the rules for a portable, corded I.T. are different than for a permanent, hard-wired I.T.

[allhifi]

11 minutes ago, Cornan said:

I do not know if it is worth the effort to go into this discussions, but I'll take the gamble! ?

 

Here is a few of my impressions using a isolation transformer with floating secondary. I must emphecise that my impressions are NOT intirely consistent with John Swensson in all regards.

 

1. Use a floating IT for all AC powered devices in the setup EXCEPT for battery chargers and turntable.

2. Add a DC blocker pre the floating IT. I know this is not recommended by JS, but very beneficial to SQ IMO.

3. Add the battery chargers plus turntable to a simple powerstrip connected to the AC wall socket beside the one connected to the floating IT.

4. Add all remaining AC powered devices to a simple powerstrip connected to the floating IT.

5. Enjoy! ?

 

No need to worry about the BK 1604A until you connect something that draws a lot of currents like power amp(s). If you got powerful amps you'll just need to buy more BK's! 

 

Good luck! ?

 

 

Now that was super nice of you !

 

Sensible suggestions.

 

pj 

 

[Speed Racer]

33 minutes ago, Cornan said:

2. Add a DC blocker pre the floating IT. I know this is not recommended by JS, but very beneficial to SQ IMO.

 

How does adding a DC blocker help sound quality when the isolation transformer blocks all DC offset??

[Cornan]

19 minutes ago, Speedskater said:

Not sure what an I.T. with a floating secondary is, but the Safety Ground/Protective Earth needs to be connected according to code.

Note that the rules for a portable, corded I.T. are different than for a permanent, hard-wired I.T.

 

A IT with a floating secondary is a so called tech style IT which is probably the most safest ITs around when it comes to personal safety. Still, there is dangers with both floating ITs and DC blockers, but those hazards are highly excessive IMO. If you'll take personal safety extremely seriously you should consider a GFSI/RCA though.

[Cornan]

1 minute ago, Speed Racer said:

 

How does adding a DC blocker help sound quality when the isolation transformer blocks all DC offset??

 

I would'nt know the tech details, but I know for a fact that it does improve SQ. Even if the battery chargers is not connected to the batteries they still decrease SQ of a floating IT in my experiments. Connecting them directly to the AC wall outlet and having a DC blockers pre the floating IT is a major jump in SQ.

[Cornan]

Here is a system typology of my most recent config in my A (primary) setup:

 

 

 

 

[Speed Racer]

Just now, Cornan said:

 

I would'nt know the tech details, but I know for a fact that it does improve SQ. Even if the battery chargers is not connected to the batteries they still decrease SQ of a floating IT in my experiments. Connecting them directly to the AC wall outlet and having a DC blockers pre the floating IT is a major jump in SQ.

 

Well, the technical details say what you are suggesting makes no sense. The isolation transformer blocks DC offset so plugging the isolation transformer into a DC blocker does nothing other than maybe reducing hum from the isolation transformer. The power coming out of the isolation transformer will not have any less or more DC offset with the DC blocker in place or not.  

[Cornan]

1 minute ago, Speed Racer said:

 

Well, the technical details say what you are suggesting makes no sense. The isolation transformer blocks DC offset so plugging the isolation transformer into a DC blocker does nothing other than maybe reducing hum from the isolation transformer. The power coming out of the isolation transformer will not have any less or more DC offset with the DC blocker in place or not.  

 

Well, can you from a tech perspective explain why there is a vast improvement in SQ with this configuration?

[Cornan]

1 hour ago, allhifi said:

 

Now that was super nice of you !

 

Sensible suggestions.

 

pj 

 

You're welcome allhifi!

What you should remember with isolation transformers is not to exceed 75% of the power load. You'll need the extra +25% over-head for it to perform optimal.

Personally I am thinking of getting a separate floating IT for my turntable. Since it interfeares with my current floating IT I do not want to plug it there. I'll guess a separate one for the turntable could improve SQ though.

[pkane2001]

Here's a power strip I use. Some AC filtering built-in for each outlet and sequential turn on/off is a big benefit, allowing components to start/shut down in an orderly fashion:

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00IX04FDW/

 

Not an exciting, high-end item, but completely functional. I don't plugin my amps into this, although I might try it one day.

[Speed Racer]

50 minutes ago, Cornan said:

 

Well, can you from a tech perspective explain why there is a vast improvement in SQ with this configuration?

 

That's the point, there isn't an explanation and there can't be a "vast improvement in SQ" just by putting a DC blocker in front of an isolation transformer. If you say that hear the difference, I will counter with expectation bias....

[EuroChamp]

1 hour ago, Speed Racer said:

 

How does adding a DC blocker help sound quality when the isolation transformer blocks all DC offset??

 

A DC filter in front a transformer blocks existing DC, which would bring the transformer into saturation, because the DC would pass the huge coil with almost no resistance.

[Cornan]

6 minutes ago, Speed Racer said:

 

That's the point, there isn't an explanation and there can't be a "vast improvement in SQ" just by putting a DC blocker in front of an isolation transformer. If you say that hear the difference, I will counter with expectation bias....

 

If there is a word I truly hate it is the word expectation bias. It is the most worthless word ever used in the audiophile world. It tells you nothing about anything. Expectation bias is the most subjective word that you can dig up, so I do understand why you want to use it in defence. But common, bring something more firm to prove your statements! 

Really, why is a DC blockers useless in a tech point of view?

[Speed Racer]

8 minutes ago, EuroChamp said:

 

A DC filter in front a transformer blocks existing DC, which would bring the transformer into saturation, because the DC would pass the huge coil with almost no resistance.

 

You mean "which could bring the transformer into saturation". That's not likely to happen UNLESS you pick an isolation transformer that is too small for the job.

[Speed Racer]

9 minutes ago, Cornan said:

 

If there is a word I truly hate it is the word expectation bias. It is the most worthless word ever used in the audiophile world. It tells you nothing about anything. Expectation bias is the most subjective word that you can dig up, so I do understand why you want to use it in defence. But common, bring something more firm to prove your statements! 

Really, why is a DC blockers useless in a tech point of view?

 

"Expectation bias" is a phrase that fits well here. The DC blocker is doing a job the isolation transformer will do too. Removing the DC blocker does not change the power coming out of the isolation transformer.

[Cornan]

23 minutes ago, Speed Racer said:

 

"Expectation bias" is a phrase that fits well here. The DC blocker is doing a job the isolation transformer will do too. Removing the DC blocker does not change the power coming out of the isolation transformer.

 

Not true! ITs is very sensitive to DC offsets. Why? They cannot handle the the pressure from DC noises. A DC blockers releive the pressure from the IT and let it perform optimal.

Just because a IT blocks DC offsets does'nt mean it handles it well.

[Speed Racer]

Just now, Cornan said:

 

Not true! ITs is very sensitive to DC offsets. Why? They cannot handle the the pressure from DC noises. A DC blockers releive the pressure from the IT and let it perform optimal.

 

Of course they can, if sized properly. Isolation transformers with iron cores, like the Topaz, are far less susceptible to saturation than toroidal transformers.

 

How much current can the ATL DC Blocker you use handle?

[Cornan]

5 minutes ago, Speed Racer said:

 

Of course they can, if sized properly. Isolation transformers with iron cores, like the Topaz, are far less susceptible to saturation than toroidal transformers.

 

How much current can the ATL DC Blocker you use handle?

 

I'll doubt that it would perform better without a DC blockers in front of it.

 

Here is the specs of the ALT DC blocker trap filter:

DC Blocker is built with following parts:
– MASSIVE 33 000 uF EPCOS capacitors
– high-voltage diodes/bridge rectifier
– 10W power resistor
– WIMA MKS4 400VAC capacitor

 

I know for sure it is sufficient for my perticular setup, but you,'re the tech guy. Tell me!

[Speed Racer]

Do you notice how all the pages on the ALT web site talk about fronting toroidal transformers?

[Cornan]

2 minutes ago, Speed Racer said:

Do you notice how all the pages on the ALT web site talk about fronting toroidal transformers?

 

Yes I know. And your point?

[archtype]

Thanks again for your suggestions.  I shall be upgrading my Topaz for a 2.4kVA 0.0005 pF unit (ordered but not here).  

My question again:  Is there a place for modalities designed to block "leakage current" (other than filtering AC main with ultra-low capacitance IT)?  I would guess that most commercially available power conditioners have them built in already--part of the "Black Box".  For those not relying on third party all-in-one "black box" power conditioning solutions, do you find benefit from modalities designed to directly address "leakage current", or is a good IT enough?

[Johnseye]

6 minutes ago, archtype said:

Thanks again for your suggestions.  I shall be upgrading my Topaz for a 2.4kVA 0.0005 pF unit (ordered but not here).  

My question again:  Is there a place for modalities designed to block "leakage current" (other than filtering AC main with ultra-low capacitance IT)?  I would guess that most commercially available power conditioners have them built in already--part of the "Black Box".  For those not relying on third party all-in-one "black box" power conditioning solutions, do you find benefit from modalities designed to directly address "leakage current", or is a good IT enough?

 

What model did you choose?