CA Readers Are, "clueless, equally bitter and uninformed"

[Gary]

I think you will find that most of the people here are over 50, and the music they like (even if they are rockers) was recorded in analog, and digital releases of this material are just remasterings of the old analog master tapes. In the classical and jazz worlds, the truly greats are gone: Ormandy, Gould, Von Karajan, Casals, Getz, Monk, Miles Davis.

 

I guess for the most part we are a bunch of old guys and an audio elf.

 

I have no problem with not spending (wasting?) money to buy digital recordings when you already have the vinyl, and I can see why you would want to listen to recordings that were originally mastered for vinyl as vinyl. My point was only that after a certain point in time nearly all recordings began to be made in digital. Even if vinyl is a perfect medium, which I doubt, some sort of DAC had to be used to convert the digital recording to vinyl and the vinyl logically can be no better than the quality of that DAC. If the vinyl sounds "better," then there is probably something artificial going on to color the music, which is fine if that is what you like.

 

I'm also over 50, but enjoy keeping up with more modern music. It's just a hobby, though, and there's no right or wrong to it.

[YashN]

George

My name isn't Alan, although you keep calling me that.

 

Hey Aldo, you should have called Gilbert 'Gabriel' or something, it would have been much funnier like that.

[4est]

The ritual is important for setting the scene. Thumb through the stack, pick a side, clean the record and dim the lights as you walk back to your chair. Moreover maybe, in the words of Shelby Lynne: "You can't roll a joint on an ipod.".

 

These days I pay homage waiting for HQPlayer to start playing a DSD256 upsample...

As I just wrote on another thread ... the inconvenience actually changes the way "we" listen to music; and if listening to music is the whole experience rather than just the actual sound then perhaps vinyl DOES sound better because of that.

[miguelito]

It makes sense, except I didn't post any of these things that you are apparently attributing to me.

I'm not attributing anything to you. You made an across the board statement that no-one can contradict someone's assessment that in their opinion something is good or bad. All I meant to say is that in some cases your claim of subjectivity doesn't hold. Specifically if you haven't tried a high end vinyl rig, you cannot say "vinyl is crap" - simple as that. On the other hand, if you say that given, say, $5k for a source component, that money will buy something that sounds better if digital compared to vinyl, I would probably agree with that. However, given say $50k, I think your statement doesn't hold anymore.

[mav52]

Isn't it funny how the CA gear craps out when your friends come over? SACD and vinyl work like a champ every time but the CA chain seems to require attention at the most inappropriate moment.

 

+1

[firedog]

The ritual is important for setting the scene. Thumb through the stack, pick a side, clean the record and dim the lights as you walk back to your chair. Moreover maybe, in the words of Shelby Lynne: "You can't roll a joint on an ipod.".

 

 

Maybe on todays iPhone 6 6 incher, you can

[Jabs1542]

Maybe on todays iPhone 6 6 incher, you can

 

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is why they made the iPhone 6 larger - a response to hipster complaints

[Gary.D.Olson]

The only problem I have with Computer Audio is the fact that a computer is involved. Remember when W4Sound DACs were inoperable for an extended period (months) because of a OS upgrade? Once we take the computer OUT of Computer Audio, we will all be better off.

 

Now as far as Ms. Jenner is concerned, when you all find out you were punked by the truly evil Kardashians (spit), there will be a world-wide shortage of the large size cartons of Egg Beaters. Because the entire internet will have egg on the collective blog face!!

 

I do find it more than a little frustrating upon starting (or restarting) the computer to see those horrific words "Installing 30 Updates. Do Not Turn Off Your Computer". Sometimes an Atom processor is no fun at all.

 

Re Kardashians (and this has nothing to do with your excellent point): The damage to our society from watching these miserable shallow fools is not their fault; it's our's (channel changers are even remote controlled these days). They haven't brought anything new to the table. The only thing different is that it seemed we had enough common sense to ignore these folks before Reality TV came along. Society has devolved since. I predict a new TV show called "OW! My Balls!" and we'll all laugh as one. Won't that be swell?

[goldsdad]

I do find it more than a little frustrating upon starting (or restarting) the computer to see those horrific words "Installing 30 Updates. Do Not Turn Off Your Computer".

 

Solution: a Mac running OS X.

[tranz]

I do find it more than a little frustrating upon starting (or restarting) the computer to see those horrific words "Installing 30 Updates. Do Not Turn Off Your Computer". Sometimes an Atom processor is no fun at all...

 

And that is why as soon as you have a stable listening environment (or even when testing), I recommend to turn off all updates. And in windows many are hidded in Task Scheduler. The only reason to then update anything is for a must have new functionality or better sound quality.

[Daudio]

Solution: a Mac running OS X.

 

+1

[Gary.D.Olson]

Solution: a Mac running OS X.

 

Noted.

 

 

And that is why as soon as you have a stable listening environment (or even when testing), I recommend to turn off all updates. And in windows many are hidded in Task Scheduler. The only reason to then update anything is for a must have new functionality or better sound quality.

 

They are off. The problem occurrs when I ask for the updates, start them, walk away, and don't remember until the unholy message pops up. It's supposed to restart itself automagically, and perhaps it does (who really knows?), but sometimes these updates require more than one restart which doesn't always happen automatically.

 

Anyway, I should be able to sense in advance this will happen from my heightened desire to hear music. It seldom happens otherwise.

[Paul R]

Noted.

 

They are off. The problem occurrs when I ask for the updates, start them, walk away, and don't remember until the unholy message pops up. It's supposed to restart itself automagically, and perhaps it does (who really knows?), but sometimes these updates require more than one restart which doesn't always happen automatically.

 

Anyway, I should be able to sense in advance this will happen from my heightened desire to hear music. It seldom happens otherwise.

 

Umm- don't ask for updates?

 

Seriously, is there any reason to ask for updates if and when a machine is working perfectly swell? Even the Mac Mini I use for music is not allowed to automatically get or install updates. If I could figure out how to get it to stop notifying me than an update is available, I would be a very happy man.

 

On the other hand, machines I experiment with or develop code on have the latest and greatest on all the software. Sometimes that causes compatibility problems, but I would rather know about them ahead of time than try to retrofit everything to 5 years old software. Just my $0.02 there. Everyone will have their own opinion about these things.

 

-Paul

[gmgraves]

George,

 

That looks like an Avantone CK40 you have there. I have been considering getting one of those. Were you using it in Blumlein, MS or just crossed card mode? I take it from the recorded result that you describe the mic does it jobs pretty well. I prefer using MS or alternatively Blumlein when I can. Having it all in a stereo mic like that sure would be convenient.

 

 

For that recording I was using it in X-Y configuration. You can do MS with the Aventone CK-40, but you must have either an external MS Matrix box or an in-line isolation transformer if your mixer doesn't have polarity swapping as a feature for each mike input. You must swap the polarity of one of the three mixer feeds required (most modern mike mixers use differential inputs on the balanced mike inputs rather than transformers).

 

 

The microphone sounds superb. It is quiet (FETs), has great bass (35mm diameter diaphragm), and with a sputtered mylar capsule, the high frequency peak seems to be above 20 KHz. Each capsule has three modes: cardioid, Figure-of-eight, and omnidirectional. The mike is beautifully made and although meant as a copy of the famous (and fabulously expensive) Telefunken ELA-M-270, it outperforms it in just about every way. At under $700, it can't be beat. I use it for my overall stereo feed on every recording I make. I just wish it wasn't red! I've been tempted to paint it a light gray or tan, but haven't gotten around to it yet.

[gmgraves]

I guess for the most part we are a bunch of old guys and an audio elf.

 

I have no problem with not spending (wasting?) money to buy digital recordings when you already have the vinyl, and I can see why you would want to listen to recordings that were originally mastered for vinyl as vinyl. My point was only that after a certain point in time nearly all recordings began to be made in digital. Even if vinyl is a perfect medium, which I doubt, some sort of DAC had to be used to convert the digital recording to vinyl and the vinyl logically can be no better than the quality of that DAC. If the vinyl sounds "better," then there is probably something artificial going on to color the music, which is fine if that is what you like.

 

I'm also over 50, but enjoy keeping up with more modern music. It's just a hobby, though, and there's no right or wrong to it.

 

 

Well, I don't have but two vinyl records that were mastered digitally: A Telarc LP of Two Holst Suites for Military Band that was mastered using the original Soundstream digital method, and a jazz recording called Bits of Percussion from a small, defunct Nashville record company. Everything else was analog. I bought most of my LPs before the CD came out and while I have purchased some remastered LPs from the likes of Classic Records, etc. all of those were recorded in the golden age of stereo LPs from RCA Red Seal and Mercury Living Presence.

 

I don't enjoy modern music and therefore don't buy it, but, to each, his own.

[gmgraves]

Solution: a Mac running OS X.

 

 

+1. While an Atom is a rather slow processor, most of your frustration seems to be the same as mine: To Wit, Windows. I use a Windows laptop as a music server, but that's all I use it for. My Mac does essentially all of the computing in my house. I've been using Macs since 1984 and Windows since 3.1 (1989?). I have never understood how anybody could get any work done with one of those things. Everything takes longer and the OS is always getting in the way with updates and pop-ups, and cryptic warnings. Thank the gods for the Macintosh. Without it I likely wouldn't be a computer audiophile or a computer anything else, for that matter!

[BobSherman]

Umm- don't ask for updates?

 

Seriously, is there any reason to ask for updates if and when a machine is working perfectly swell? Even the Mac Mini I use for music is not allowed to automatically get or install updates. If I could figure out how to get it to stop notifying me than an update is available, I would be a very happy man.

 

On the other hand, machines I experiment with or develop code on have the latest and greatest on all the software. Sometimes that causes compatibility problems, but I would rather know about them ahead of time than try to retrofit everything to 5 years old software. Just my $0.02 there. Everyone will have their own opinion about these things.

 

-Paul

 

Yes... we don't need no stinking updates!!!

 

[esldude]

For that recording I was using it in X-Y configuration. You can do MS with the Aventone CK-40, but you must have either an external MS Matrix box or an in-line isolation transformer if your mixer doesn't have polarity swapping as a feature for each mike input. You must swap the polarity of one of the three mixer feeds required (most modern mike mixers use differential inputs on the balanced mike inputs rather than transformers).

 

The microphone sounds superb. It is quiet (FETs), has great bass (35mm diameter diaphragm), and with a sputtered mylar capsule, the high frequency peak seems to be above 20 KHz. Each capsule has three modes: cardioid, Figure-of-eight, and omnidirectional. The mike is beautifully made and although meant as a copy of the famous (and fabulously expensive) Telefunken ELA-M-270, it outperforms it in just about every way. At under $700, it can't be beat. I use it for my overall stereo feed on every recording I make. I just wish it wasn't red! I've been tempted to paint it a light gray or tan, but haven't gotten around to it yet.

 

Thanks for the info George. I have a couple of their CK1 SDCs so I know what you mean about the red. If I get one I have in mind either wrapping the body in some black or dark gray spandex sewn to fit it or seeing if I could use some very large diameter heat shrink to put around it. Would be easy enough to slice openings for any of the switches.

 

I currently do MS with a figure 8 and card in two different mikes. I have learned how to listen to it without switching to stereo and decide if I want to move the mic location. Or sometimes I will use a plugin that handles it for my DAW since I record to a laptop. I think the plugin is one from Voxengo. I will then decide what level of mid to side to use later on. Of course a pair of crossed 8's is nice when the room sounds good enough for it.

[wgscott]

If I could figure out how to get it to stop notifying me than an update is available, I would be a very happy man.

 

Issue the command

sudo launchctl unload -w /System/Library/LaunchAgents/com.apple.notificationcenterui.plist

 

Followed by

killall NotificationCenter

[Paul R]

Issue the command

sudo launchctl unload -w /System/Library/LaunchAgents/com.apple.notificationcenterui.plist

 

Followed by

killall NotificationCenter

 

Ah- why didn't I think of that? Thanks Bill. -Paul

[InfernoSTi]

I've thought about this a little more:

 

CA Readers Are, "clueless, equally bitter and uninformed"

 

I have decided that we are not equally bitter and uninformed. That simply is not true.

[bluesman]

I have decided that we are not equally bitter and uninformed.

The simple fact that this thread has grown to its current size with no end in sight suggests relatively equal measures of both to me.

 

[Audio_ELF]

The simple fact that this thread has grown to its current size with no end in sight suggests relatively equal measures of both to me.

 

There was apparently a saying ... An elephant is just a mouse designed by the BBC Engineering department!

[james45974]

Back to the original setup, I am in the camp with Chris that the "surge" in vinyl sales is just a fad. Also, to attribute young people gravitating that direction because of better sound is giving them way too much credit which is not meant as an insult. Unless the younger generation has changed drastically over the years they probably just talk about music, regardless of whether it is on their phone, youtube, or vinyl. When I was with my crowd in school we would discuss the latest music and we didn't care if it was from cassette, 8-track, vinyl, or radio. The only thing we were snobs about was it had to be in stereo, AM radio was for the old folks and losers! The only time we listened to mono was on the portable radio at the beach.

 

I have two turntable setups and about 1200 LP's which I listen to 0% of the time. I have three digital setups and about 4000 CD's ripped which I listen to 100% of the time (as well as streaming). Estimating, about 95% of my vinyl has been released digitally, about 60-70% of my CD's have been released on vinyl, so I get to listen to more of my collection digitally than analog.

 

I don't buy into the "ritual" of listening to vinyl but to each his own. The only ritual I miss is visiting the retail store to browse. I have good memories of going to Toronto on Boxing Day and fighting the crowds in Sam's or A&A's for the new Bruce Cockburn, Martha & the Muffin's, or Jane Siberry album. It was so crowded that I have spent over an hour in line outside in the cold just to get in the store, something today's young people will never experience!

[orgel]

The only ritual I miss is visiting the retail store to browse.

 

Same here. Sometimes I miss the big artwork and legible liner notes, but that'll probably go away once the Roon iOS client is released.

 

--David