Article: SOtM Launches sMB-Q370 Motherboard

[botrytis]

I am sorry but for a generation or two behind, that is Apple pricing.

 

Intel has already pulled the plug on making the 8th and 9th gen CPU's and this was from last year. That also means the chip sets will not be made any more either.

 

9th Gen Intel CPU's discontinued

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 hour ago, botrytis said:

I am sorry but for a generation or two behind, that is Apple pricing.

 

Intel has already pulled the plug on making the 8th and 9th gen CPU's and this was from last year. That also means the chip sets will not be made any more either.

 

9th Gen Intel CPU's discontinued

Newegg has plenty of CPUs, all the way back to 1st Gen Intel. Not sure what discontinuing a Gen actually means if one can still get them from 13 years ago.

 

[botrytis]

1 hour ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Newegg has plenty of CPUs, all the way back to 1st Gen Intel. Not sure what discontinuing a Gen actually means if one can still get them from 13 years ago.

 

Yes, but Intel doesn't support them anymore. Drivers, etc. That IS the point.

[The Computer Audiophile]

48 minutes ago, botrytis said:

Yes, but Intel doesn't support them anymore. Drivers, etc. That IS the point.

Intel drivers aren’t needed. 

[MarcelNL]

9 hours ago, Enosh said:

If I need to choose between this motherboard and a nice linear power supply to upgrade the pc, which one would you recommend to upgrade first? 

Without knowing how that PC is built and nobody having ever heard the MB, nor anyone knowing what Linear PSU (and at what price) you have in mind there are just too many variables to answer.

In the end you need both a good MB and a good PSU. 

[botrytis]

It has been shown Linear PS are as noisier as a well-designed regular ATX PS. They are also way less efficient, meaning heat,

 

I have been building my own PC's since I-486 days. Much of what is reported by audiophiles about 'noise', etc. from PC's is more urban legend than anything else. The reason being, to a PC - data is data - if noise affects digital music, it will affect other data as well. Also working with scientific analytical instruments, more data is there than any music file could possibly have. Noise would affect it all.

[The Computer Audiophile]

2 hours ago, botrytis said:

I have been building my own PC's since I-486 days. Much of what is reported by audiophiles about 'noise', etc. from PC's is more urban legend than anything else. The reason being, to a PC - data is data - if noise affects digital music, it will affect other data as well. Also working with scientific analytical instruments, more data is there than any music file could possibly have. Noise would affect it all.

 

Both data and power ride along the USB connection to a DAC. The data can remain perfect while at the same time dirty power can have averse effects on the audio component. This is partially why some companies use optical isolation between the USB input and the rest of the DAC. 

[rando]

. . .

[botrytis]

8 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

 

Both data and power ride along the USB connection to a DAC. The data can remain perfect while at the same time dirty power can have averse effects on the audio component. This is partially why some companies use optical isolation between the USB input and the rest of the DAC. 

Which has been shown to be nonsense, sorry to say.

 

A well designed USB chip and USB input does not let noise through.

 

If you believe it, go forward and enjoy. But it makes absolutely no sense.

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 minute ago, botrytis said:

Which has been shown to be nonsense, sorry to say.

 

A well designed USB chip and USB input does not let noise through.

 

If you believe it, go forward and enjoy. But it makes absolutely no sense.

I’ve only seen a few select cases where folks thought they were proving to the world that none of this mattered, by using a sample size of about one computer. 
 

The old “well designed” phrase is a common one too. As if engineering isn’t about compromises and solutions to specific issues don’t cause other unintended consequences. 
 

I’m old enough to remember some internal DAC isolation causing issues not caused by the very thing it was meant to stop. 

[Boomboy]

Press release from SOtM

 

 

[Boomboy]

I asked may about the clock input .. here's her reply

 

 

[musicjunkie917]

16 hours ago, botrytis said:

It has been shown Linear PS are as noisier as a well-designed regular ATX PS.

 

Ok. Which linear PS and which "regular" ATX PS? Do you have data (charts and graphs) to back this claim up?

 

By the way, I think this "audio" motherboard is just another way to pull dollars from gullible consumers. But, ATX power supplies are not known to be electrically quiet.

[NewOldman]

6 hours ago, botrytis said:

Which has been shown to be nonsense, sorry to say.

 

A well designed USB chip and USB input does not let noise through.

 

If you believe it, go forward and enjoy. But it makes absolutely no sense.

you have no clue what you're talking about

[NewOldman]

17 hours ago, botrytis said:

It has been shown Linear PS are as noisier as a well-designed regular ATX PS. They are also way less efficient, meaning heat,

 

I have been building my own PC's since I-486 days. Much of what is reported by audiophiles about 'noise', etc. from PC's is more urban legend than anything else. The reason being, to a PC - data is data - if noise affects digital music, it will affect other data as well. Also working with scientific analytical instruments, more data is there than any music file could possibly have. Noise would affect it all.

you have no clue what you're talking about

[R1200CL]

Now the price with clock input is almost $1500, and then you will need to add an expensive clock as well I assume. 
 

[R1200CL]

2 hours ago, Boomboy said:

I asked may about the clock input .. here's her reply

I don’t understand the answer. How many clock input do they offer, at what frequency and ohm ?

Is the clock input a PCI card ?

[Boomboy]

12 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

I don’t understand the answer. How many clock input do they offer, at what frequency and ohm ?

Is the clock input a PCI card ?

I'm probably a bit confused about it myself . So the sclk-ex can have multiple outs to connect to their products at an additional cost providing their products have the clock input ?

The ohm can be selected at checkout .

I'm planning to send another email probably after Xmas when sure of what I want to ask .

I wish they had a few pictures of the finished motherboard with their products connected to the motherboard. 

 

[bbosler]

On 12/22/2021 at 7:56 AM, botrytis said:

It has been shown Linear PS are as noisier as a well-designed regular ATX PS.

 

15 hours ago, botrytis said:

 

A well designed USB chip and USB input does not let noise through.

 

If you believe it, go forward and enjoy. But it makes absolutely no sense.

 

This boils down to the age old listening versus measuring conundrum. If you are a fan (cult member) of Audio Science Review then you believe that the only thing that matters is measurements, but just because you can't explain it with a set of measurements doesn't mean it doesn't exist.. He often doesn't even mention that he listened to a device that he "reviews," he only posts measurements. However, if you believe as I do that measurements only tell part of the story, then the aforementioned noise measurements are not conclusive.

 

And yes, there are many things in audio that "make no sense" from a measurement perspective, but that assumes we have identified everything that can be measured, are measuring it properly, and have identified an exact correlation between what we measure and what we hear. Just because we have some measurements doesn't mean we are measuring everything that is relevant.

 

To assume that we have  positively identified exactly how our body reacts to the sounds around us and can measure everything that affects us  is ludicrous. We have no more positively identified how our brain processes sound than we have sight, smell, or touch. Again, just because you can't explain it with a set of measurements doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[fas42]

6 hours ago, bbosler said:

 

And yes, there are many things in audio that "make no sense" from a measurement perspective, but that assumes we have identified everything that can be measured, are measuring it properly, and have identified an exact correlation between what we measure and what we hear. Just because we have some measurements doesn't mean we are measuring everything that is relevant.

 

 

The peculiar paralysis in the audio game, of people's ability to think, is quite intriguing - anyone who takes getting best sound seriously very quickly finds out that "dumb things!" matter; and then starts doing things to try and improve the situation. Which triggers the never ending river of snake oil and other products, which in turn triggers strong outbursts of anger from those who are deeply troubled by this "idiocy!!"

 

That the industry can't pull back, for one second, and properly evaluate all of this, leaves me bemused - I've been watching for decades now the excruciatingly slow building of an understanding that best SQ depends on 'getting everything right'; the excitement of having the latest bit of bling to play with seems to override, every time - and barely any progress in developing deeper understanding happens ...

[Gavin1977]

I was hoping the SMB-Q370 would have included a high grade clock baked into the motherboard.  Hmm…

[R1200CL]

3 hours ago, Gavin1977 said:

I was hoping the SMB-Q370 would have included a high grade clock baked into the motherboard.  Hmm…

…..and that actually make a lot of sense. I don’t know how many various clock frequencies a MB needs, but the correct FPGA ought to accomplish the task. And you could even get a nice clock output as an option. 
 

Still I’m asking where such a possible audiophile MB can be used. I can only think about as an endpoint or containing your player SW. In both cases the quality of the USB out should matter. Or any ideas how to best use this MB ?

[The Computer Audiophile]

One thing that probably makes little sense for most users, but I’d love, is an AES output on the motherboard. It would just be cool. 🙂

[Archimago]

On 12/23/2021 at 7:50 AM, bbosler said:

 

 

This boils down to the age old listening versus measuring conundrum. If you are a fan (cult member) of Audio Science Review then you believe that the only thing that matters is measurements, but just because you can't explain it with a set of measurements doesn't mean it doesn't exist.. He often doesn't even mention that he listened to a device that he "reviews," he only posts measurements. However, if you believe as I do that measurements only tell part of the story, then the aforementioned noise measurements are not conclusive.

 

And yes, there are many things in audio that "make no sense" from a measurement perspective, but that assumes we have identified everything that can be measured, are measuring it properly, and have identified an exact correlation between what we measure and what we hear. Just because we have some measurements doesn't mean we are measuring everything that is relevant.

 

To assume that we have  positively identified exactly how our body reacts to the sounds around us and can measure everything that affects us  is ludicrous. We have no more positively identified how our brain processes sound than we have sight, smell, or touch. Again, just because you can't explain it with a set of measurements doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

 

 

We do have to be careful here not to get mystical as well!

 

For example the statement:

Quote

 

"A well designed USB chip and USB input does not let noise through.

 

If you believe it, go forward and enjoy. But it makes absolutely no sense."

 

 

Is speaking about noise through the USB interface. That is quite well defined and certainly measurable beyond any science we know to have significance for human hearing abilities. If one argues that the human ears can actually hear some kind of noise that cannot be measured beyond better than say -100dB that we can readily test from the DAC output, then it would be nice to discuss this!

 

To speculate that there's "something else" out there is fine but this cannot really be taken seriously unless there's some hint of what we're talking about. That's like saying "it's possible" that the Boogeyman lives under my bed. As adults I trust there's no need to be concerned, right?

 

Personally, I have never heard noise coming from my USB DACs that don't show up in the noise floor or audible distortions not showing up when measured.

[fas42]

55 minutes ago, Archimago said:

 

To speculate that there's "something else" out there is fine but this cannot really be taken seriously unless there's some hint of what we're talking about. That's like saying "it's possible" that the Boogeyman lives under my bed. As adults I trust there's no need to be concerned, right?

 

Personally, I have never heard noise coming from my USB DACs that don't show up in the noise floor or audible distortions not showing up when measured.

 

When a system doesn't sound right I'm sure that it will always be possible to measure in some way the presence of anomalies. Which is a long, long way from what is actually done - in the real world of ongoing efforts to extract best sound from setups.

 

However, what really matters is where an individual is not happy with the SQ he's getting - and that he knows how, or can access some expertise, from somewhere, to sort things out ...