Building a DIY Music Server

[ASRMichael]

17 minutes ago, Nenon said:

I noticed a quite significant variable while doing tests with my DIY server. Every time I turned it off to make some changes and back on as part of my A/B tests, it sounded better. It took me some time to understand why but it became clear after a few tests. The HDPlex chassis runs a bit hot after my dual CPU is powered one for several hours/days. When I turn it off and all the components cool down, my server sounds quite a bit better! I knew there was a difference but did not expect it to be that big. With that variable in mind I had to redo most of my tests. 

 

After living for several weeks with V3 of the unregulated LPS, I decided to switch back to V2. I heard exactly what I heard the last time. V3 gives you a very expansive soundstage but loses some clarity. If clarity and transparency is what you are after, go with V2. If you prefer to have soundstage way beyond the walls of your listening room, then go with V3.
I had a pretty hard time deciding what I prefer. But I picked V3 for me and my system at the end. The good thing is it’s easy to switch from V3 to V2 when I get bored :). The main point is that V3 should not be considered an upgrade to V2. They are just two differnet sounding versions. Many people may prefer V2. I like the big and expansive soundstage on V3! 

Thanks. One of the reasons I installed an array of fans (Not connected to server or dedicated mains supply) was to keep everything as cool as possible. These we mini fans do a great job, heatsink and components are cold to touch. Not even slightest bit warm. They blow the heat away. I have 6 now. Clearly helps dissipate the heat from the Hdplex heatsink.
 

3 here on photo. 
 

Temps are 33c on my i9 10900k, running at 5.0ghz

 

[Gavin1977]

Any extreme owners compared the Taiko USB to the JCAT USB XE yet?

 

I've had a Pink Faun Ultra Clocked spdif bridge card for a while, but decided to return it as the performance delta was not very large over JCAT USB XE -> Matrix Audio X-spdif 2 to warrant upgrade. The main difference was due to the ultraclock, with instrument placement (imaging) being cleaner (less haze around each instrument) on the pink faun.  How much better, not much, maybe 5% - so not big, but big enough to notice.  The Pink Faun Ultra Clocked spdif bridge is still the best bridge I've had so far mind.

 

So anyway, these findings lead me towards the Taiko USB which seems superb and USB is also more future proof than spdif... so probably a wiser investment.

 

(p.s. I presently use the USB XE to x-spdif 2 chain because Chord DAC's tend to sound better with spdif as noise generated internally to the DAC from the Amanero USB receiver is removed when USB is not in use.  I'll also be trying USB to spdif via SRC-DX courtesy of @Fourlegs shortly).

[ASRMichael]

22 minutes ago, Gavin1977 said:

Any extreme owners compared the Taiko USB to the JCAT USB XE yet?

 

I've had a Pink Faun Ultra Clocked spdif bridge card for a while, but decided to return it as the performance delta was not very large over JCAT USB XE -> Matrix Audio X-spdif 2 to warrant upgrade. The main difference was due to the ultraclock, with instrument placement (imaging) being cleaner (less haze around each instrument) on the pink faun.  How much better, not much, maybe 5% - so not big, but big enough to notice.  The Pink Faun Ultra Clocked spdif bridge is still the best bridge I've had so far mind.

 

So anyway, these findings lead me towards the Taiko USB which seems superb and USB is also more future proof than spdif... so probably a wiser investment.

 

(p.s. I presently use the USB XE to x-spdif 2 chain because Chord DAC's tend to sound better with spdif as noise generated internally to the DAC from the Amanero USB receiver is removed when USB is not in use.  I'll also be trying USB to spdif via SRC-DX courtesy of @Fourlegs shortly).

Are you aware Taiko USB is only available to Extreme owners? Yes I know pity, hopefully be made to others soon! 

[Gavin1977]

2 minutes ago, ASRMichael said:

Are you aware Taiko USB is only available to Extreme owners? Yes I know pity, hopefully be made to others soon! 

Yeah, priced at 1600 euro plus taxes.  Might be good demand if someone can demo against JCAT XE.  Emile has had a JCAT XE in the extreme, but their own card worked out better - would be nice for a more nuanced comparison.

[ted_b]

Delete

[Fourlegs]

1 hour ago, Gavin1977 said:

p.s. I presently use the USB XE to x-spdif 2 chain because Chord DAC's tend to sound better with spdif as noise generated internally to the DAC from the Amanero USB receiver is removed when USB is not in use.  I'll also be trying USB to spdif via SRC-DX courtesy of @Fourlegs shortly).

👍 and although off topic for this thread, will be plenty of space in the car so i will be bringing my DC4 Dave to keep me company whilst on the drive down to you and it would be a shame not to plug it in when i get there. 😄

[ASRMichael]

1 hour ago, Gavin1977 said:

Yeah, priced at 1600 euro plus taxes.  Might be good demand if someone can demo against JCAT XE.  Emile has had a JCAT XE in the extreme, but their own card worked out better - would be nice for a more nuanced comparison.

Understand! I use Pink Faun Ultra usb. I would also need a demo before purchasing a Taiko USB. Very happy with my PF mind you. 

[AudioDoctor]

27 minutes ago, ASRMichael said:

Understand! I use Pink Faun Ultra usb. I would also need a demo before purchasing a Taiko USB. Very happy with my PF mind you. 

 

Just something to keep in mind. When I was doing some research about USB cards, I learned that to use the Pink Faun USB card you need an AMD Processor. That's straight from Pink Faun themselves.

[ASRMichael]

20 minutes ago, AudioDoctor said:

 

Just something to keep in mind. When I was doing some research about USB cards, I learned that to use the Pink Faun USB card you need an AMD Processor. That's straight from Pink Faun themselves.

Are you sure? Thought was just spdif? I’ve just PF USB with 3 Intel processors without any issue at all. Windows & Linux. 

[Nenon]

5 hours ago, Gavin1977 said:

Any extreme owners compared the Taiko USB to the JCAT USB XE yet?

 

I've had a Pink Faun Ultra Clocked spdif bridge card for a while, but decided to return it as the performance delta was not very large over JCAT USB XE -> Matrix Audio X-spdif 2 to warrant upgrade. The main difference was due to the ultraclock, with instrument placement (imaging) being cleaner (less haze around each instrument) on the pink faun.  How much better, not much, maybe 5% - so not big, but big enough to notice.  The Pink Faun Ultra Clocked spdif bridge is still the best bridge I've had so far mind.

 

So anyway, these findings lead me towards the Taiko USB which seems superb and USB is also more future proof than spdif... so probably a wiser investment.

 

(p.s. I presently use the USB XE to x-spdif 2 chain because Chord DAC's tend to sound better with spdif as noise generated internally to the DAC from the Amanero USB receiver is removed when USB is not in use.  I'll also be trying USB to spdif via SRC-DX courtesy of @Fourlegs shortly).

 

I had the Taiko USB card for a month in my system. A Taiko Extreme user loaned it to me. 

On 4/10/2021 at 9:00 AM, Nenon said:

 

 

It went through a pretty bad burn-in slope (connected directly to the DAVE DAC). After the first 7-10 days it settled and became really good. Unfortunately, I could not power it up with my Sean Jacobs DC4 LPS. It required 2 rails (5V and 12V), but also takes power from the PCIe slot. According to Emile, the 5V and the 12V rails need to come up at exactly the same time as the PCIe power. Given that the card was not mine, I did not want to risk damaging it and did not try powering by my DC4. It was powered by the 5V and 12V rails on the Taiko ATX instead.

 

I was planning to do a detailed comparison, but then Emile said the card will only be available to Extreme users. I decided it's not worth writing for something that we can't buy. So, let me keep this short. The day I had to remove the Taiko USB card and put back the JCAT USB XE was a sad day. If I had to summarize the differences, the Taiko USB is much more natural and organic sounding. Every tone and every instrument sounded more real, more believable. We know that when we hear live music somewhere on the street our ears/brain can tell it's live music and not a stereo system. The Taiko USB brought me closer to believing the instruments were real and not coming through my stereo system. And that's a big deal! It's also super transparent. My system has never been that transparent as it was with the Taiko USB card. There was also less noise, more depth, more air, the soundstage was bigger, etc. But those differences were more subtle... the organic and natural sound is what was striking and I liked the most. It was more analog sounding in a good way. 

 

After living for about a month with the Taiko USB card, I switched to my JCAT USB XE and what I immediately noticed was what I notice every time I switch to the JCAT XE USB card, which is boosted high frequency and bass. It almost feels like the XE has a V-shaped equalizer curve applied (not saying that's the case but that's how I perceive it in my system). However it took a few days and I got used to it, and I started liking it again.

BTW, all digital products or power supplies using LT3045 regulators I have heard have a unique sound signature that I contribute to the LT3045s. And I don't particularly like that sound signature to be honest.

 

I tend to agree with you on the differences between the JCAT USB XE and the pinkFaun USB with ultraOCXO clock. I've done many of these comparisons in the past.

- JCAT XE vs. pinkFaun without OCXO clock --> I prefered the JCAT XE.

- JCAT XE vs. pinkFaun with standard OCXO clock --> I prefered the JCAT XE.

- JCAT XE vs. pinkFaun with ultraOCXO clock --> I prefered the pinkFaun with ultraOCXO clock. But the difference is not that big and it's hard to justify the nearly double price. 

The improvement from JCAT XE to Taiko USB was a few notches bigger than the difference of going from the JCAT XE to the pinkFaun with ultraOCXO clock. In other words, the Taiko USB card is the best I've heard. It would have been an easy recommendation if available. But it's not. And that makes the JCAT XE my current choice. Unless of course you want to spend the extra money for the pinFaun with ultraOCXO. 

 

I also had a chance to listen to a brand new Taiko USB card a second time. This time I was using the SRC-DX between the Taiko USB and DAVE DAC. To my surprise, there was no burn-in nastiness at all. It was better for the few days in my system and more inline with what Taiko Extreme users were reporting on WBF. This is one of these high-end audio mysteries that would never get explained... it seems like the Amanero on the DAVE makes the Taiko USB card burn-in process horrible, and the USB on the SRC-DX behaves pretty nice with it. Go figure.

 

The other thing that was a pleasant surprise was that with the Taiko USB card, the network tweaks mattered less. They still made a difference but not as much as before. 

 

BTW, the SRC-DX is an easy recommendation for all DAVE DAC users. The only issue is that now you need good BNC cables. 

 

[AudioDoctor]

44 minutes ago, ASRMichael said:

Are you sure? Thought was just spdif? I’ve just PF USB with 3 Intel processors without any issue at all. Windows & Linux. 

 Let me find the email from Jord Groen

 

This is from January 26th. And may refer only to Euphony as an endpoint, I am not sure.

 

Quote

- Yes, the Pink Faun cards, we call them bridges, are of very high quality and available with our ULTRA OCXO clock. It is also possible to insert more than one Pink Faun bridge into the server, and you can switch easily between the different connections to the DAC. For example, there are people who setup a USB connection to the DAC fully optimized for DSD playback, and a second AES/EBU connection fully optimized for PCM playback.

- Our Pink Faun bridges are also sold separately so one can built his own streamer or endpoint. Please note than when you build your own endpoint using Euphony as OS you need to use an AMD processor for your build to get the bridges work properly.
 

 

[ASRMichael]

10 minutes ago, AudioDoctor said:

 Let me find the email from Jord Groen

 

This is from January 26th. And may refer only to Euphony as an endpoint, I am not sure.

 

 

I’ve just tried playing from my nuc using stylus to server (PF Usb is located). It’s running StylusEP and plays fine. I don’t understand why he would say this?! As I said no issues from my end. 
 

Maybe not suitable with some Mobo manufacturers. Saying that I’ve used ASRock & Asus. 

[AudioDoctor]

3 minutes ago, ASRMichael said:

I’ve just tried playing from my nuc using stylus to server (PF Usb is located). It’s running StylusEP and plays fine. I don’t understand why he would say this?! As I said no issues from my end. 
 

Maybe not suitable with some Mobo manufacturers. Saying that I’ve used ASRock & Asus. 

 

I have no idea either. I thought it was odd at the time but didn't inquire further because the server I built has an Intel processor.

[ASRMichael]

3 minutes ago, AudioDoctor said:

 

I have no idea either. I thought it was odd at the time but didn't inquire further because the server I built has an Intel processor.

I’ve just emailed Jord & asked him to clarify on this thread. 👍

[AudioDoctor]

Just now, ASRMichael said:

I’ve just emailed Jord & asked him to clarify on this thread. 👍

 

Awesome.

[Gavin1977]

1 hour ago, Nenon said:

 

I had the Taiko USB card for a month in my system. A Taiko Extreme user loaned it to me. 

 

It went through a pretty bad burn-in slope (connected directly to the DAVE DAC). After the first 7-10 days it settled and became really good. Unfortunately, I could not power it up with my Sean Jacobs DC4 LPS. It required 2 rails (5V and 12V), but also takes power from the PCIe slot. According to Emile, the 5V and the 12V rails need to come up at exactly the same time as the PCIe power. Given that the card was not mine, I did not want to risk damaging it and did not try powering by my DC4. It was powered by the 5V and 12V rails on the Taiko ATX instead.

 

I was planning to do a detailed comparison, but then Emile said the card will only be available to Extreme users. I decided it's not worth writing for something that we can't buy. So, let me keep this short. The day I had to remove the Taiko USB card and put back the JCAT USB XE was a sad day. If I had to summarize the differences, the Taiko USB is much more natural and organic sounding. Every tone and every instrument sounded more real, more believable. We know that when we hear live music somewhere on the street our ears/brain can tell it's live music and not a stereo system. The Taiko USB brought me closer to believing the instruments were real and coming through my stereo system. And that's a big deal! That also makes it super transparent. My system has never been that transparent as it was with the Taiko USB card. There was also less noise, more depth, more air, the soundstage was bigger, etc. But those differences were more subtle... the organic and natural sound is what was striking and I liked the most. It was more analog sounding in a good way. 

 

After living for about a month with the Taiko USB card, I switched to the JCAT USB XE and what I immediately noticed was what I notice every time I switch to the JCAT XE USB card, which is boosted high frequency and bass. It almost feels like the XE has a V-shaped equalizer curve applied (not saying that's the case but that's how I perceive it in my system). However it took a few days and I got used to it, and I started liking it again.

BTW, all digital products or power supplies using LT3045 regulators I have heard have a unique sound signature that I contribute to the LT3045s. And I don't particularly like that sound signature to be honest.

 

I tend to agree with you on the differences between the JCAT USB XE and the pinkFaun USB with ultraOCXO clock. I've done many of these comparisons in the past.

- JCAT XE vs. pinkFaun without OCXO clock --> I prefered the JCAT XE.

- JCAT XE vs. pinkFaun with standard OCXO clock --> I prefered the JCAT XE.

- JCAT XE vs. pinkFaun with ultraOCXO clock --> I prefered the pinkFaun with ultraOCXO clock. But the difference is not that big and it's hard to justify the nearly double price. 

The improvement from JCAT XE to Taiko USB was a few notches bigger than the difference of going from the JCAT XE to the pinkFaun with ultraOCXO clock. In other words, the Taiko USB card is the best I've heard. It would have been an easy recommendation if available. But it's not. And that makes the JCAT XE my current choice. Unless of course you want to spend the extra money for the pinFaun with ultraOCXO. 

 

I also had a chance to listen to a brand new Taiko USB card a second time. This time I was using the SRC-DX between the Taiko USB and DAVE DAC. To my surprise, there was no burn-in nastiness at all. It was better for the few days in my system and more inline with what Taiko Extreme users were reporting on WBF. This is one of the these high-end audio misterries that would never get explained... it seems like the Amanero on the DAVE makes the Taiko USB card burn-in process horrible, and the USB on the SRC-DX behaves pretty nice with it. Go figure.

 

BTW, the SRC-DX is an easy recommendation for all DAVE DAC users. The only issue is that now you need good BNC cables. 

 

Super feedback as always @Nenon - it’s great to have my listening impressions directly backed up by your experience.  Yes JCAT USB XE does have a slight v shape to its signature.

 

Thanks for detailing the issues in deploying the Taiko USB in non-extreme music servers -  to be honest this would put me off.  So hoping they release a DIY version in the future.

[ted_b]

4 minutes ago, Gavin1977 said:

So hoping they release a DIY version in the future.

Why wouldn't he?  He could bundle it with the Taiko ATX and instruct folks it must be connected through it (so as to power up correctly).  Maybe I'm missing something.  That handshake (USB to DAC) is probably the biggest handshake in computer audio, and if Taiko has such a world beater, proven to have value even outside an Extreme, do it!

[ASRMichael]

51 minutes ago, AudioDoctor said:

 

Awesome.

Response from Jord

 

About the cards, I think where the confusion comes from, not the full conversation is posted. It is like follows:

 

The USB card working fine on any system both Intel and AMD running either Linux or Windows.

The SPDIF- and I2S bridge working fine on both Intel and AMD on Windows systems.

The SPDIF- and I2S bridge working only on Linux on AMD based systems.

Something is going wrong between the Intel CPU and the PCI Express audio processor we use on both the SPDIF- and I2S bridge. What is odd is that the issue between the audio processor and Intel is random, it will play fine in some Intel/Linux systems, but most Intel/Linux systems produce issues with the SPDIF- and I2S bridge.

[Downtheline]

1 minute ago, ASRMichael said:

Something is going wrong between the Intel CPU and the PCI Express audio processor we use on both the SPDIF- and I2S bridge.

This is not the case for all intel cpus. I have PF I2s bridgeworking with an intel xeon silver 4210. This means Nenon's upcoming diy dual cpu server should also work with the pf I2s cards. 

[ASRMichael]

14 minutes ago, ted_b said:

Why wouldn't he?  He could bundle it with the Taiko ATX and instruct folks it must be connected through it (so as to power up correctly).  Maybe I'm missing something.  That handshake (USB to DAC) is probably the biggest handshake in computer audio, and if Taiko has such a world beater, proven to have value even outside an Extreme, do it!

Exactly, I see more reasons to release to everyone...

 

Profitability = reinvestment/R&D.

Someone who buys a USB might be attracted to buying an Extreme.
More successful products = more successful brand. 
I could go on....

 

Steve Jobs only ever wanted iTunes for mac, and we know what happened here. Because it made business sense, market was much bigger and not niche. 
 

I would ask what are the reasons not to? 

[Exocer]

Wasn't there some sort of agreement that Emile would not release it due to another competing product?

 

Either way, I find it interesting that the Taiko USB card fed by the Taiko DC-ATX outdid the JCAT fed via DC4. While the JCAT sounded better powered by DC4 than it did powered by the Taiko DC-ATX.

[ASRMichael]

1 minute ago, Exocer said:

Wasn't there a some sort of agreement that he would not release it due to another competing product?

No comment! 

[Nenon]

35 minutes ago, ted_b said:

Why wouldn't he?  He could bundle it with the Taiko ATX and instruct folks it must be connected through it (so as to power up correctly).  Maybe I'm missing something.  That handshake (USB to DAC) is probably the biggest handshake in computer audio, and if Taiko has such a world beater, proven to have value even outside an Extreme, do it!

My guess is that the USB card (combined with TAS and Taiko's USB driver) would keep the Extreme on the top for some time, until Taiko comes up with some newer technology, at which point they can make the USB card available for DIY. 

 

There is major global parts and supply shortage at the moment. That might be another reason. Keep however many USB card can be produced for current and future Extreme users? 

 

I think we would be able to buy it at some point in the future. But probably not anytime soon... 

 

[AudioDoctor]

36 minutes ago, ASRMichael said:

Response from Jord

 

About the cards, I think where the confusion comes from, not the full conversation is posted. It is like follows:

 

The USB card working fine on any system both Intel and AMD running either Linux or Windows.

The SPDIF- and I2S bridge working fine on both Intel and AMD on Windows systems.

The SPDIF- and I2S bridge working only on Linux on AMD based systems.

Something is going wrong between the Intel CPU and the PCI Express audio processor we use on both the SPDIF- and I2S bridge. What is odd is that the issue between the audio processor and Intel is random, it will play fine in some Intel/Linux systems, but most Intel/Linux systems produce issues with the SPDIF- and I2S bridge.

 

Thanks for following up and getting some clarification.

[MarcelNL]

43 minutes ago, ASRMichael said:

Response from Jord

 

About the cards, I think where the confusion comes from, not the full conversation is posted. It is like follows:

 

The USB card working fine on any system both Intel and AMD running either Linux or Windows.

The SPDIF- and I2S bridge working fine on both Intel and AMD on Windows systems.

The SPDIF- and I2S bridge working only on Linux on AMD based systems.

Something is going wrong between the Intel CPU and the PCI Express audio processor we use on both the SPDIF- and I2S bridge. What is odd is that the issue between the audio processor and Intel is random, it will play fine in some Intel/Linux systems, but most Intel/Linux systems produce issues with the SPDIF- and I2S bridge.

I learned the hard way, it would be nice if they put something like a heads up in their product description or at least to their distributors...

It was Pietro (AudioLinux) who told me there is an issue that could not be sorted, not a word from the distributor or PF, once I changed gear to AMD it worked instantly.