Building a DIY Music Server

[Tatomek7]

33 minutes ago, RickyV said:

max dc current is rated at 10A.

yeah, the 195G10 is rated with 10A, the 159ZJ from @Nenon specification is rated with 5A, but what is real power consumption, what Taiko ATX board will draw from PSU, anybody knows?

[MarcelNL]

54 minutes ago, Gavin1977 said:

Potential new solution around the corner:  

https://www.fudzilla.com/news/pc-hardware/52893-noctua-confirms-its-passive-cpu-cooler-is-coming-soon

 

great, if they only would make it in copper....then it could be a truly premium cooler...the Nofan passive coolers suddenly disappeared leaving very little (or none) passive options. The chines manufacturer let me know they don's have passive solutions for AM4. 

I still think it'll come down to making my own from some copper busbar, and copper rods and a file or two.

 

[RickyV]

1 hour ago, prinz said:

I made some comparisons between CLC and CLCLC filtering using PSU Designer and have to confirm that CLCLC provides much better voltage ripple smoothing and filtering.

Better in terms of numbers of course.

 

1,68mV   on the output of CLC filter and 70nV after CLCLC filter.  Not sure how it influence the sound, but math wise - CLCLC is 24x times less ripple. Hmmm....

Wondering what happens with the numbers if you remove the first C, so LCLC?

[RickyV]

Got this from diy audio site.

 

L-C filter
======
"The choke input filter allows a continuous current from the rectifier diodes, rather than the pulsating current demand by the capacitor input filter, and because of the, it has better voltage regulation. Maximum current is available to the load with this type of operatoin, so this filter is more suited to higher load-current demand. 

On the debit side, the output voltage of the filter is equal to the average of the AC voltage delivered to the rectifier, rather than the peak value. It is also very costly, because a physically large, low resitsance inductance is required."

C-L-C filter
========
"The pi filter is more efficient.....is used on medium-current equipment, it does produce a higher output voltage then the L-C filter, but the regulation is not as good."

C-R filter
======
"this type of filter is less expensive. The filtering action is not as good, and here is some loss of DC voltage at the output because of the voltage drop across ther resistor. It is limited to low-current equipment..."

 

Thread: CRCRC vs. LCLCLC which is better and why?

 

[bit01]

The Ls increase the output impedance I imagine, an effect which @Nenon felt was detrimental to the TAIKO converter performance? The other advantage of the  L-C (choke input) is a reduction of inrush current.

 

I saw (Apr 1987 AUDIO AMATUER) a rare topology with the L on the AC side of the rectifier. I wonder if  @prinz could model this one. It should reduce the peak rectifier current, the inrush current. The core of L would be AC powered - saturation less of an issue. Unfortunately the output voltage will be less.

 

In the end though best SQ  for the PS is the goal here.

 

ATB.

b

[bit01]

The TAIKO DC DC-ATX currently mounted on the HDPlex faceplate. Four M3 holes were drilled through & tapped.

 

[Soul Analogue]

I see so many of you are talking about choke input (LC) filter for taiko ATX module... but is there anyone really put into practice or a simple experiment?

The taiko ATX can easily draw over 10A current at 30v...

The choke for LC filter has to be purposely designed and substantially made (huge size) as it is dealing with all the AC ripple from the rectifier....

I am 100% sure that the 10A spec Hammond choke (just a mere 2kg) will not serve this purpose, or the choke will be as noisy as a chatterbox even under a 2A load

In my experience, a choke built for this LC purpose needs to be at least 7-8kg weight to be reasonably quiet and have a meaningful ripple reduction capability...

 

 

[Dev]

how about this monster at 72lbs ? 🤪

 

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Hammond-Manufacturing/195R20?qs=7rwefYdqV%2FZHBBiCJpS93w%3D%3D

 

On a serious note, I am not sure why Nenon picked a 5A choke here. I tried that choke a while back with a 21v/10A rail and it didn't work but I am running a i9-10900k while Nenon is experimenting with dual Xeon. So power requirements can be drastically different, especially with i9-10900k on Turbo and they also have very different base clock. However, if I am not mistaken the dual Xeon consumes atleast a constant 12v/6A. I am sure Nenon will chime in with more details.....

[Soul Analogue]

21 minutes ago, Dev said:

how about this monster at 72lbs ? 🤪

 

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Hammond-Manufacturing/195R20?qs=7rwefYdqV%2FZHBBiCJpS93w%3D%3D

 

 

 

May be ok.... the size looks more practical 

but as I said , the choke must be purposely built for LC application..I do not see it is mentioned in the Hammond datasheet 

 

[MarcelNL]

I was also wondering how a 5mH choke would do anything serious, my tube amp has a custom 400H (@100mA) HiB core choke weighing a ton , of course that PSU uses far less capacitance than this PSU due to the mercury filled tube rectifiers but still.

[Soul Analogue]

19 minutes ago, MarcelNL said:

I was also wondering how a 5mH choke would do anything serious, my tube amp has a custom 400H (@100mA) HiB core choke weighing a ton , of course that PSU uses far less capacitance than this PSU due to the mercury filled tube rectifiers but still.

 

5mH choke for 10A current is not bad already

[RickyV]

Okay this not a tube amplifier but a server it does not hum. What would the continuous current draw of the server be? I don’t think it’s 5 or 10 A continuous. That’s where I think the big capacitors come in, to deliver the spiky current draw of a server.
On a side note the Taiko uses a Lundahl choke not sure what it’s current rating is.

 

[Dev]

2 minutes ago, RickyV said:

Okay this not a tube amplifier but a server it does not hum. What would the continuous current draw of the server be? I don’t think it’s 5 or 10 A continuous.

It does. The Xeon’s consume about 3A. Unlike the core i series, they are designed to be a workhouse with a steady consumption and doesn’t have current spikes like the gaming CPUs. 

[Soul Analogue]

14 minutes ago, RickyV said:

Okay this not a tube amplifier but a server it does not hum. What would the continuous current draw of the server be? I don’t think it’s 5 or 10 A continuous. That’s where I think the big capacitors come in, to deliver the spiky current draw of a server.
On a side note the Taiko uses a Lundahl choke not sure what it’s current rating is.

 

Yes...the server does not draw that much current constantly...but I think nobody would accept a PSU / hifi equipment rattles intermittently (during necessary loading times)

When designing a PSU, always consider the max load, otherwise reliability issue will arise

 

SGMS Extreme is only using capacitor input filter on the PSU.... so the requirement / spec on the choke is much relaxed

[RickyV]

8 minutes ago, Soul Analogue said:

SGMS Extreme is only using capacitor input filter on the PSU.... so the requirement / spec on the choke is much relaxed

choke on the right

 

Then the Capacitor bank:

[Soul Analogue]

4 minutes ago, RickyV said:

choke on the right

 

 

 

Capacitors on the left ...which is right after the Recifier diodes = Capacitor Input filter....

Clearly NOT choke input filter that I mentioned above

 

[RickyV]

11 minutes ago, Soul Analogue said:

 

Capacitors on the left ...which is right after the Recifier diodes = Capacitor input filter.... Not choke input filter that I mentioned above

 

Okay so what is that Lundahl thing doing? Found a better picture.

 

 

 

 

[Soul Analogue]

2 minutes ago, RickyV said:

Okay so what is that Lundhal thing doing? Found a better picture.

 

 

 

 

It is a Capacitor Input CLC filter topology...the L does help on ripple reduction than Capacitor only filter

[Dev]

What is the circular thing beside the Mundrof ? That seems like a choke as well ?

 

 

 

[Soul Analogue]

1 minute ago, Dev said:

What is the circular thing beside the Mundrof ? That seems like a choke as well ?

 

 

 

I think it is a film capacitor to bypass the 47000uf electrolytic

Definitely not a choke

[RickyV]

3 minutes ago, Soul Analogue said:

It is a Capacitor Input CLC filter topology...the L does help on ripple reduction than Capacitor only filter

?? Is the L in the CLC not a choke?

In this threat we are discussing CLCLC filters, taiko dc-atx power supply for nenon’s diy server.

[Dev]

15 minutes ago, Soul Analogue said:

It is a Capacitor Input CLC filter topology...the L does help on ripple reduction than Capacitor only filter

Originally the suggestion was to use the CLC (which is nothing but a pi filter), then CLCLC and finally CLCLCCC for the ultimate 🙂

[Dev]

2 minutes ago, RickyV said:

Is the L in the CLC not a choke?

yes, it is. The question was if a 10mH 5A sufficient for the amount of current draw needed for these servers. 

[Soul Analogue]

1 minute ago, RickyV said:

?? Is the L in the CLC not a choke?

In this threat we are discussing CLCLC filters, taiko dc-atx power supply for nenon’s diy server.

YES the L is the Choke

But having a choke does not mean it is a Choke Input filter, which is a choke Right after Rectification, No capacitor in between

CLC filter is still a Capacitor input filter.....

Please differentiate these topologies.... 

[Dev]

Just now, Soul Analogue said:

YES the L is the Choke

But having a choke does not mean it is a Choke Input filter, which is a choke Right after Rectification, No capacitor in between

CLC filter is still a Capacitor input filter.....

Please differentiate these topologies.... 

 

 

don’t think we are talking about LC filter here. All discussions are around CLC. So, yes it’s a capacitor input filter.