Building a DIY Music Server

[LTG2010]

I remember reading that the JCAT XE was modified to work on Extreme, something with the power supply. After this mod the transparency increased substantially(over sage usb port) according to Emile. Don't know what the mod was? but it might be an option for JCAT and Taiko dc- atx/ Sage users, since the Taiko USB is not available.

[ASRMichael]

On 6/6/2021 at 6:28 PM, ASRMichael said:

Thanks. One of the reasons I installed an array of fans (Not connected to server or dedicated mains supply) was to keep everything as cool as possible. These we mini fans do a great job, heatsink and components are cold to touch. Not even slightest bit warm. They blow the heat away. I have 6 now. Clearly helps dissipate the heat from the Hdplex heatsink.
 

3 here on photo. 
 

Temps are 33c on my i9 10900k, running at 5.0ghz

 

Just to see the comparison of external fans on versus off. 20c difference. Not I’m burning in Taiko Extreme. I’m using Euphony burn in tool. One photo fans off & one with fans on. 
 

[Topk]

Sharing tips/findings on how to optimize SQ

 

0) for context, please refer to system description in my profile 
 

1) Cooling off the LPS 

 

I use a huge 20 cm Noctua fan (Noctua NF-A20 5V PWM) - which is virtually silent - and powered by 5V power bank to keep my 12V CPU Keces P8 cool. Not touching the Keces, not on the same furniture than the PC, and not on the mains power.

 

The sound is significantly better when the LPS is cool.
 

Another tip is to blow the fan on the bottom of the Keces (not the top) where the hot components are. 

 

2) 2 x Keces P8 for CPU

 

On the motherboard, the CPU has 2 connectors: 8 pin and optional 4 pin. I used to have 1 Keces P8 on the 8 pin. I added a second Keces P8 on the 4 pin and the sound became much bigger, more powerful, fuller. Worth every penny and can’t go back.

 

Keeping Keces (powering the CPU) cool also decrease the Amps used by the Keces (which is easy to check on the amp meter display) and also decreases the CPU heat (since less power is sent to the CPU).

I also use another Keces P8 for the 800W HDplex converter. So 3 in total. 

 
3) CPU voltage 

 

I also increased my CPU voltage and I found out that the SQ does increase with voltage. So unfortunately undervolting - if pushed too far - does have SQ consequences… regardless of performance measurements. 

I would keep CPU voltage at 1.25V minimum or above at that point. 
 

4) CPU speed

I found out that locking the CPU speed increases SQ vs. letting the BIOS dynamically adjust the CPU speed. Sound is more stable. 
 

So the best SQ in my case is: 2 x Keces P8 for CPU on 8 pin and 4 pin + locked CPU speed + CPU voltage not too low (to keep heat manageable in a passive case) maybe 1.3V or more 

 

[bit01]

On 5/15/2021 at 3:17 PM, bit01 said:

I will also confirm preference of using the SR7T to power the TAIKO DC DC ATX unit and let that power the CPU (Intel i9-10900K in a GB Z490 AORUS Master). The music flows (grabs my attention)  much better than when using the 2nd rail via a SJ regulator for the CPU. So far I hear what I would call a 'polished' sound, pleasant on the ear with nice PRaT. Music intricacies are very evident. Instrumental timbre is very good as are voices. This is very relaxed listening so far. 

 

 I switched the SR7T powered HDPlex 800 out to test the Taiko. The CPU powered by the SR7T in both cases. I had been playing some tracks at a comfortable volume.  The server was feeding my main system, which I had left powered up when I made the switch.

 

Without adjusting the volume the sound seemed diminished with the TAIKO (apparent lower volume). I was tempted to increase the volume a few notches but resisted.

 

When I powered the CPU directly from the TAIKO the volume seemed more, but not quite to the level I remembered (audio memory can be poor). I will have to switch back to the HDplex to double check this. If true (very early days) then it sounds to me like the macro dynamics are somewhat diminished in comparison to the HDPlex both fed with the SR7T 19V rail.  Although the sound is more refined  I feel like it does not 'punch' to the same level. There will be more break in and tuning here hopefully including the unregulated higher voltage PS that 

@Nenon  is working on to power the TAIKO. 

 

---

 

ATB.

b.

 

 

On 5/15/2021 at 5:14 PM, bit01 said:

Still very fresh, less that 40 hrs, a long way to go from what you say! It will be running 24/7 for sure. I will compare the volume thing to the HDplex 800 again at month's end.

 

Welcome back safe and sound I hope.

 

ATB

b.

Here is a brief update. I believe the TAIKO DC-ATX is clocking well over 400 hours of play:

 

Switching back to the SRT7T powered HDPlex 800  reveals that the volume change is hardly noticeable anymore. The TAIKO has indeed opened up nicely and is quite punchy with all the other comments above still valid! 

 

The SR7T-HDplex DC-ATX with the SR7T-SJ regulator to the CPU is the fine tuned setup having had much more time with it. It gives a very relaxed fluid sound but with the slightly 'submerged' detail in comparison (for lack of a better way to express this)!

 

In my current setup, the TAIKO EPS to the CPU results in a 'dryness' to the sound especially noticeable on some 'hot' recordings when compared to the separate SR7T-SJ regs rail powering the CPU. This can hopefully be reduced or eliminated fully with further tuning  (PS, cables etc) which will be a longer term project for me. It is worth trying as I believe it to be noticeably the more musically inviting experience - i.e. when the CPU is powered from the TAIKO connector!

 

ATB

b.

[Nenon]

The biggest strength of the Taiko ATX is to power the CPU, especially with power hungry CPUs. 

 

If your 12V EPS rail is consuming let's say less than 3A, and you have a high quality LPS, keep it. It would probably sound better than the Taiko ATX. Also, if you have a 3-rail good quality LPS (3.3V, 5V, 12V) to power the ATX connector, it would probably sound better.

 

However, if the CPU is drawing more current (my dual CPUs consume 7A), this is where the Taiko ATX really shines. But you can't just feed the Taiko ATX with any energizer. The Taiko ATX is as transparent as it gets, so you are essentially listening to to the quality of the energizer. Bad energizer - bad quality. Good energizer - good quality. This is why the unregulated LPS (i.e. energizer) plays a crucial role feeding the Taiko ATX. 

 

Can't wait for these transformers to be ready so you guys can hear what a good energizer can do with the Taiko ATX. 

As a general guideline, there are 4 things I found to be very important with the energizer:

1. Super low output impedance (ideally less than 2 mOhms).

2. High voltage (at least 25V, preferably 30-35V).

3. Very short cables and the thickest possible cables. That's also related to #1 (low output impedance), but I wanted to stress it enough. Those 1 meter 18 AWG Ghent cables a lot of us were using would demolish the performance here. Use at least 3 x 15-16 AWG wires (for 10-11 AWG combined wire gauge) and keep them as short as possible. The gauge and length is actually more important than the quality of the wire here. But if you can do all there (short, thick, and high-quality), even better.

4. Use high quality components and high quality design. 

 

The SR7T probably qualifies or can qualify for 3 out of the 4 things listed above, especially if you use short/thick/high-quality cables. But it's limited to 19V, and that's a problem. 

 

The second big benefit of the Taiko ATX is that it eliminates the multiple shared ground planes compared to using multiple linear power supplies. The benefit of that was apparent when I listened to the Taiko USB card in my system. That card was also powered by the Taiko ATX, and there was essentially just one ground. BTW, the network tweaks in my system started to make less difference, although they still did.  Pretty cool stuff!

However, with the XE USB card I found that powering with a Sean Jacobs DC4 sounded much better. I guess everything is a tradeoff :).

 

[Exocer]

I am listening to this new EPS cable for the first time after two 1.5 days of baking in (server left on since installation, minimal music playback). The EPS cable has all 8-pins installed, gold molex pins per @Nenon's recommendation on the first page of this thread, and is composed of 8 strands of relatively inexpensive 20awg solid core annealed copper wire from Duelund. This wire costs about $5/meter, so, much cheaper than Mundorf. It took about 2 hours to assemble because I'm just slow with building cable :D. No Jssg360.

 

Here is the wire: https://www.partsconnexion.com/DUELUND-81388.html

 

I had second thoughts about this, given the relatively small size of this wire but it worked out well.

 

I'm not saying what Nenon posted above isn't true, but, this Duelund wire is outperforming the Gotham JSSG360 cable by quite a margin very early on. Soundstage is wider/deeper, and more holographic. There is better separation and detail retrieval without an increase in harshness. Just a more noticeable natural sound is presented. Yes, the gauge is smaller than the Gotham (18awg vs 20awg) but it is solid core, with oil/cotton insulation so perhaps this may have something to do with it.

 

This same cable will probably not be the best choice for the dual CPU build. I can highly recommend it for single core i9 builds that are not doing heavy oversampling although my calculations suggest it would be able to handle most i9s at TDP max without an issue. Don't quote me on that though...as I've only used it in a non-upsampling build!

 

@bit01 - you may want to consider this wire for flavoring your setup. I also swapped out the Paul Hynes silver wire at the SR7T outputs for Mundorf SG 15.5awg wire and this was a step in the right direction. It is much better than the PH silver wire used internally.

 

Edit: I forgot to snag a picture of the completed wire but will make it my duty to snag a photo ASAP.

 

I am also testing this Femto NVME drive. It definitely beats Optane in my rig even using PCI-E slot power. Will write more about this later:

 

 

Cheers,

-Rob

[Gavin1977]

HDPlex linear power supplies...  My 500w arrived today.  Anyone have transformer hum on theirs or the previous 400w model?

 

Also, any opinions if the unit benefits from burn in (and suggested duration)?

 

Thanks

[Grisza08]

It's nice improvement over my 400w dcatx. Everything sound more natural with better resolution. Also have  hum from transformer. At first day of owe  it froze up my music server due to not enough air circulation

[vhs]

Taiko Audio DC-DC Atx........boiling for 300 hrs now......

 

amazing already........

[sakso136]

On 6/10/2021 at 10:03 PM, Topk said:

Sharing tips/findings on how to optimize SQ

 

0) for context, please refer to system description in my profile 
 

1) Cooling off the LPS 

 

I use a huge 20 cm Noctua fan (Noctua NF-A20 5V PWM) - which is virtually silent - and powered by 5V power bank to keep my 12V CPU Keces P8 cool. Not touching the Keces, not on the same furniture than the PC, and not on the mains power.

 

The sound is significantly better when the LPS is cool.
 

Another tip is to blow the fan on the bottom of the Keces (not the top) where the hot components are. 

 

2) 2 x Keces P8 for CPU

 

On the motherboard, the CPU has 2 connectors: 8 pin and optional 4 pin. I used to have 1 Keces P8 on the 8 pin. I added a second Keces P8 on the 4 pin and the sound became much bigger, more powerful, fuller. Worth every penny and can’t go back.

 

Keeping Keces (powering the CPU) cool also decrease the Amps used by the Keces (which is easy to check on the amp meter display) and also decreases the CPU heat (since less power is sent to the CPU).

I also use another Keces P8 for the 800W HDplex converter. So 3 in total. 

 
3) CPU voltage 

 

I also increased my CPU voltage and I found out that the SQ does increase with voltage. So unfortunately undervolting - if pushed too far - does have SQ consequences… regardless of performance measurements. 

I would keep CPU voltage at 1.25V minimum or above at that point. 
 

4) CPU speed

I found out that locking the CPU speed increases SQ vs. letting the BIOS dynamically adjust the CPU speed. Sound is more stable. 
 

So the best SQ in my case is: 2 x Keces P8 for CPU on 8 pin and 4 pin + locked CPU speed + CPU voltage not too low (to keep heat manageable in a passive case) maybe 1.3V or more 

 

Hi,i m in the same boat as you.

2 p8 keces ,

One 12v from p8 direct to cpu.(4pin)

One 19 v p8 direct to hd800.

I dont see any other 8 or 4 pin in my cpu?

[sakso136]

35 minutes ago, sakso136 said:

Hi,i m in the same boat as you.

2 p8 keces ,

One 12v from p8 direct to cpu.(4pin)

One 19 v p8 direct to hd800.

I dont see any other 8 or 4 pin in my cpu?

For clarification:

I have an 8 pin connector on cpu wich 4 pin are connected to the 12v p8 direct.

[Topk]

3 hours ago, sakso136 said:

For clarification:

I have an 8 pin connector on cpu wich 4 pin are connected to the 12v p8 direct.

Hello - what’s the model of your MB? Most newer MB have both a 8 pin connector and a 4 pin connector for the CPU. The 4 pin is usually for overclocking / liquid nitrogen… etc. And only the 8 pin is required to be connected for the MB to boot.

 

However the finding is that if you have both the 8 pin and 4 pin connector (and by the way, my advice is that you choose a MB that has both), then connecting both connectors increase significantly the SQ - using 2 different rail, 2 LPS…

 

In other words, the 4 pin CPU connector (if you have one) should not be left unconnected. Multiple people have identified this already and that’s the point I wanted to make.

 

why is that the case? I suspect it has to do with the ability to give more stable current to the CPU 

[sakso136]

2 hours ago, Topk said:

Hello - what’s the model of your MB? Most newer MB have both a 8 pin connector and a 4 pin connector for the CPU. The 4 pin is usually for overclocking / liquid nitrogen… etc. And only the 8 pin is required to be connected for the MB to boot.

 

However the finding is that if you have both the 8 pin and 4 pin connector (and by the way, my advice is that you choose a MB that has both), then connecting both connectors increase significantly the SQ - using 2 different rail, 2 LPS…

 

In other words, the 4 pin CPU connector (if you have one) should not be left unconnected. Multiple people have identified this already and that’s the point I wanted to make.

 

why is that the case? I suspect it has to do with the ability to give more stable current to the CPU 

Hi thks for responding.

My server was build by nenon,it is the i9900 k processor into phantom z390 motherboard.

The cabke  between p8 and cpu was made by nenon,top silver duelend.

There s 4 pin left unconnected now,since that cable is 4 pin .

When the 4 pin duelend cable connect into the 8pin into cpu ,4 pin are left unconnected ,if that make sense.

[sakso136]

1 minute ago, sakso136 said:

Hi thks for responding.

My server was build by nenon,it is the i9900 k processor into phantom z390 motherboard.

The cabke  between p8 and cpu was made by nenon,top silver duelend.

There s 4 pin left unconnected now,since that cable is 4 pin .

When the 4 pin duelend cable connect into the 8pin into cpu ,4 pin are left unconnected ,if that make sense.

Oh also,i ordered the fan you use.

I received my new dac last month,and i m burning it.

So leaving my server working for ~8 hrs per day,on poorly ventilated room,without switching off,and tube amp g70 ( release a lot of heat),my dac have 5 tubes,basically when i enter my music room i feel like temperature is more than 30 degree celcius.

The sq was very bad.

Very frustrated,sceptical,i was suspecting the hot conditions are deteriorating the sq.

When i read your post,i reset the server,cool down the system,and boom,sq again top!

The p8 when left on for few days becomes bad i think.

By the way the temperature of cpu ( thru euphony os) where around 45 degrees celsius.

[ASRMichael]

36 minutes ago, sakso136 said:

Oh also,i ordered the fan you use.

I received my new dac last month,and i m burning it.

So leaving my server working for ~8 hrs per day,on poorly ventilated room,without switching off,and tube amp g70 ( release a lot of heat),my dac have 5 tubes,basically when i enter my music room i feel like temperature is more than 30 degree celcius.

The sq was very bad.

Very frustrated,sceptical,i was suspecting the hot conditions are deteriorating the sq.

When i read your post,i reset the server,cool down the system,and boom,sq again top!

The p8 when left on for few days becomes bad i think.

By the way the temperature of cpu ( thru euphony os) where around 45 degrees celsius.

Why not turn amp off. Run Euphony burn in tool. Sending data to your dac. I’m running this way at the moment. I use Euphony burn in tool set to low. It’s been running for 5 days  24/7 now. Never need to check it. 

[sakso136]

7 minutes ago, ASRMichael said:

Why not turn amp off. Run Euphony burn in tool. Sending data to your dac. I’m running this way at the moment. I use Euphony burn in tool set to low. It’s been running for 5 days  24/7 now. Never need to check it. 

Hi, 

Nice.

How i can do it?

[ASRMichael]

Just now, sakso136 said:

Hi, 

Nice.

How i can do it?

Go to Euphony expert settings. Scroll down to stress test. You’ll see settings “Hard” change to “Low” and start it. Watch your temps for a few minutes to make sure they don’t go too high. Mine are 55c on low setting. 
 

 

[sakso136]

Fantastic! Thks a lot.

[ASRMichael]

1 minute ago, sakso136 said:

Fantastic! Thks a lot.

Jyst be careful, if you see temps go above 90c terminate it. On low it shouldn’t but just watch periodically for 1st hour. The fact your room will cool down when you switch amp off should help dissipate the heat. 

[Topk]

3 hours ago, sakso136 said:

Oh also,i ordered the fan you use.

I received my new dac last month,and i m burning it.

So leaving my server working for ~8 hrs per day,on poorly ventilated room,without switching off,and tube amp g70 ( release a lot of heat),my dac have 5 tubes,basically when i enter my music room i feel like temperature is more than 30 degree celcius.

The sq was very bad.

Very frustrated,sceptical,i was suspecting the hot conditions are deteriorating the sq.

When i read your post,i reset the server,cool down the system,and boom,sq again top!

The p8 when left on for few days becomes bad i think.

By the way the temperature of cpu ( thru euphony os) where around 45 degrees celsius.

If you look at the photo attached below, I circled in red that in some MB (not all), you have both a 8 pin and 4 pin CPU connectors for 12V.
 

My experience is that you need to feed both connectors with power. Gives a significant better sound and jump in sound quality: bigger, fuller, more dynamic, more effortless. 
 

Do not leave the CPU 4 pin connector unpowered or you leave big sound quality gains on the table! This CPU needs to be well fed, it’s key to SQ.
 

In fact a friend just borrowed my second Keces that I was using on the CPU, and with 1 Keces P8 the sound immediately collapsed (relatively of course, it’s still OK but once you know…). No question there, and I really can’t wait to put the second Keces back on the CPU to get the full, big sound back.

 

As for the heat, glad I could help… definitely impacts SQ. I just use a phone 5V Anker power bank to power the big Noctua fan. And by the way I was surprised than this particular fan doesn’t consume all that much so the big power bank I use can go for a few days.
 

I noticed the SQ issue first when I powered my system from cold, sound was best then got worse over time. Especially now we are in the summer. That was due to heat building up in the various components of the system eg Keces P8. 

 

 

[Exocer]

Some typos in my pervious post. I meant "single CPU" not single core. I also meant upsampling where I stated "oversampling".

 

Anyway...

Here is what the EPS cable looks like:

 

I am also sending external power to the Femto NVME drive and this was a substantial improvement across the board. I have zero recent frame of reference to what "analog" sounds like, but everything about the sound has improved. There are some real benefits to be had by using clean dedicated power and good clock for Storage.

 

 

4 hours ago, Topk said:

Do not leave the CPU 4 pin connector unpowered or you leave big sound quality gains on the table! This CPU needs to be well fed, it’s key to SQ.
 

 

@TopkInteresting. I remember @BCRich and I were chatting about this at one point. I would like to try this, but, I'm not sure it would be possible with the 2-rail LPS I have. At the moment, I am powering both ATX/EPS with 1 19v rail of my 2 rail LPS. I have the 2nd rail of the same LPS available for use.. Would I fry my machine by using that 2nd rail to power the 4-pin connector? The CPU would receive power from the Taiko DC-ATX and a separate dedicated 12v rail rated up to 12a continuous.

 

Cheers,

-Rob

 

[sakso136]

5 hours ago, Topk said:

If you look at the photo attached below, I circled in red that in some MB (not all), you have both a 8 pin and 4 pin CPU connectors for 12V.
 

My experience is that you need to feed both connectors with power. Gives a significant better sound and jump in sound quality: bigger, fuller, more dynamic, more effortless. 
 

Do not leave the CPU 4 pin connector unpowered or you leave big sound quality gains on the table! This CPU needs to be well fed, it’s key to SQ.
 

In fact a friend just borrowed my second Keces that I was using on the CPU, and with 1 Keces P8 the sound immediately collapsed (relatively of course, it’s still OK but once you know…). No question there, and I really can’t wait to put the second Keces back on the CPU to get the full, big sound back.

 

As for the heat, glad I could help… definitely impacts SQ. I just use a phone 5V Anker power bank to power the big Noctua fan. And by the way I was surprised than this particular fan doesn’t consume all that much so the big power bank I use can go for a few days.
 

I noticed the SQ issue first when I powered my system from cold, sound was best then got worse over time. Especially now we are in the summer. That was due to heat building up in the various components of the system eg Keces P8. 

 

 

Yesterday i checked on my motherboard ,i have only an 8 pin connector,4 of them being fed by p8 12v.

The question now is,will powering the 4 pin left unconnected with power will be safe and good?

Second question ,how about using 12v feeding from hd800 to those 4pin?

If it is safe to do so,i m thinking on farad super3 12v to feed these 4 pin.

My friend ldms server is fed by a super3,and i think it is a better lps than p8.

Thks

[BCRich]

Deleted

[seeteeyou]

Oh boy, this motherboard actually got triple 8-pin EPS connectors for powering a single Xeon Scalable processor

 

https://www.asrockrack.com/general/productdetail.asp?Model=WC621D8A-2T

Quadruple connectors on another one

 

https://www.evga.com/articles/01386/evga-sr-3-dark/

[ASRMichael]

3 hours ago, Exocer said:

Some typos in my pervious post. I meant "single CPU" not single core. I also meant upsampling where I stated "oversampling".

 

Anyway...

Here is what the EPS cable looks like:

 

I am also sending external power to the Femto NVME drive and this was a substantial improvement across the board. I have zero recent frame of reference to what "analog" sounds like, but everything about the sound has improved. There are some real benefits to be had by using clean dedicated power and good clock for Storage.

 

 

 

@TopkInteresting. I remember @BCRich and I were chatting about this at one point. I would like to try this, but, I'm not sure it would be possible with the 2-rail LPS I have. At the moment, I am powering both ATX/EPS with 1 19v rail of my 2 rail LPS. I have the 2nd rail of the same LPS available for use.. Would I fry my machine by using that 2nd rail to power the 4-pin connector? The CPU would receive power from the Taiko DC-ATX and a separate dedicated 12v rail rated up to 12a continuous.

 

Cheers,

-Rob

 

Two Taiko’s. 1 for each EPS connector? 😂😂