EtherREGEN: Installation, Usage, Difficulty, Questions thread

[mourip]

On 5/14/2020 at 7:09 PM, David A said:

 

I remember having some people over years ago when I still used discs. These people weren't interested in audio, looked at my system which is in a separate room, and said they wouldn't be able to tell a difference between it and a "normal" system. Most of our afternoon was spent in the living room chatting but every now and then one of the women in the group would wander off and listen to the system which was playing in the background. I wandered into the room on a couple of occasions and observed whoever was in there sitting in the listening chair, eyes closed, with a silly grin on their face and obviously enjoying the sound immensely. None of them went out and did anything to improve whatever they had at home as far as I know.

 

Non-audiophiles tend to say that they won't be able to hear a difference simply because they have no experience of really good sound but give them the opportunity and they have no difficulty in hearing the difference. What they don't have is any strong interest in listening to music as an activity in itself, they tend to use music as background and as long as they're enjoying what they hear they don't have a desire to go out and buy something that will give even more enjoyment to them. That simply isn't their priority because they aren't fascinated by the sound of music in the way that we are. They can certainly hear the things that we hear but the differences aren't personally important to them.

 

I once had a guy who felt that way about music listen to my system and ask me about its cost. I told him and he said that he could hear the difference but he wouldn't spend that much chasing it but he also said he could understand why I was doing that. He then told me about how much he had spent making performance improvements to his car, something I've never done with mine because that doesn't interest me. It's very much "different strokes for different folks".

 

This should be a "sticky".

 

Similarly even within our own hobby folks pursue it for different reasons. Some just love well reproduced music. Some love the equipment and the chase of "making a difference". Some love measurements and the science behind audio and music reproduction. Some love all of that.

 

It is a big boat and there is room for all...

[David A]

6 hours ago, mourip said:

 

This should be a "sticky".

 

Similarly even within our own hobby folks pursue it for different reasons. Some just love well reproduced music. Some love the equipment and the chase of "making a difference". Some love measurements and the science behind audio and music reproduction. Some love all of that.

 

It is a big boat and there is room for all...

 

Thank you, and you're right about people pursuing this hobby for different reasons. I think we're all chasing different things as well. Everyone in this thread probably has an ETHERRegen and is running a networked system but I bet every one of our systems sounds different because we've made different choices in relation to amps and speakers and other components and we've made those choices because we're chasing something special to us in the sound we get.

 

It is a big boat and there is room for all, and that's one of the things which makes if fun.

[ikemi]

Hi Guys,

 

Quick question. I’m pretty sure I know the answer, but I just want to confirm. Plugging the etherregen, which is getting power from an external LPS, into the same dedicated mains circuit as my streamer/player, which has its own internal power supply, does not defeat the etherregen’s isolation correct? The streamer/player is downstream from the etherregen i.e on the b side of the etherregen. Thanks!

 

Ron

[Roasty]

Can someone confirm/help me out? 

 

If I get an SOtM SNH-10g switch:

 

1) to use the fiber connection on the switch to the ER, I just need to get two sfp cages and a length of fiber cable? 

 

2) if I use the fiber port on the ER, can I still plug in other devices to the ethernet ports on A side? Is there any detrimental effect? 

 

3) the distance between the switch and ER will be only about 1.5m. Is there any point/benefit to even consider using fiber at this distance, over usual ethernet connection? 

[David A]

28 minutes ago, Roasty said:

Can someone confirm/help me out? 

 

If I get an SOtM SNH-10g switch:

 

1) to use the fiber connection on the switch to the ER, I just need to get two sfp cages and a length of fiber cable? 

 

2) if I use the fiber port on the ER, can I still plug in other devices to the ethernet ports on A side? Is there any detrimental effect? 

 

3) the distance between the switch and ER will be only about 1.5m. Is there any point/benefit to even consider using fiber at this distance, over usual ethernet connection? 

 

1- Yes  but, my understanding is that the voids you plug the optical transceiver modules into are the cages so what you need is not 2 cages and a fibre cable but 2 transceiver modules and a fibre cable. Startech actually sell fibre cables terminated with the transceiver modules so you could also simply buy one of their terminated cables which is what I did to connect my ER to a TP-Link converter.

 

2- Yes. I connect both my Roon Nucleus+ and the optical connection to my router to the A side. I haven't noticed anything detrimental.

 

3- it may depend on other aspects of your setup. For example, in my setup my Roon ethernet endpoint (a Devialet amplifier), the Nucleus+, and the ER, the 3 components that essentially comprise my system, are on a dedicated mains circuit while my router is elsewhere in the house on one of the house circuits. Having a copper ethernet connection from router to ER provides a galvanic connection between the dedicated audio circuit and the household circuit on which the router is located. Using an optical fibre link to connect the ER to the router breaks that galvanic connection and did produce an improvement in sound quality. If your router and the ER and other parts of your system are on the same mains circuit in your home you may not notice that much of an improvement. In my case I'm very glad I did it.

 

If you had the SOtM switch already, I'd probably say just get the optical fibre cable and transceivers because they aren't expensive but if you're going to buy the switch then that's going to cost a fair bit more. I assume you're thinking of replacing an existing switch with the SOtM switch. If that's the case, then for the cost of the optical cable and transceivers plus maybe $20 more you can get the cable, transceivers, and an ethernet to optical converter unit and place that between your existing switch and the ER. If you get a decent improvement from that, at relatively low cost, then you may want to consider replacing the existing switch with the SOtM switch.

 

Sometimes the "suck it and see" approach is the best way to discover the answer provided you can find a low cost way of conducting the experiment and that's a low cost way of doing it.

[Roasty]

22 minutes ago, David A said:

 

1- Yes  but, my understanding is that the voids you plug the optical transceiver modules into are the cages so what you need is not 2 cages and a fibre cable but 2 transceiver modules and a fibre cable. Startech actually sell fibre cables terminated with the transceiver modules so you could also simply buy one of their terminated cables which is what I did to connect my ER to a TP-Link converter.

 

2- Yes. I connect both my Roon Nucleus+ and the optical connection to my router to the A side. I haven't noticed anything detrimental.

 

3- it may depend on other aspects of your setup. For example, in my setup my Roon ethernet endpoint (a Devialet amplifier), the Nucleus+, and the ER, the 3 components that essentially comprise my system, are on a dedicated mains circuit while my router is elsewhere in the house on one of the house circuits. Having a copper ethernet connection from router to ER provides a galvanic connection between the dedicated audio circuit and the household circuit on which the router is located. Using an optical fibre link to connect the ER to the router breaks that galvanic connection and did produce an improvement in sound quality. If your router and the ER and other parts of your system are on the same mains circuit in your home you may not notice that much of an improvement. In my case I'm very glad I did it.

 

If you had the SOtM switch already, I'd probably say just get the optical fibre cable and transceivers because they aren't expensive but if you're going to buy the switch then that's going to cost a fair bit more. I assume you're thinking of replacing an existing switch with the SOtM switch. If that's the case, then for the cost of the optical cable and transceivers plus maybe $20 more you can get the cable, transceivers, and an ethernet to optical converter unit and place that between your existing switch and the ER. If you get a decent improvement from that, at relatively low cost, then you may want to consider replacing the existing switch with the SOtM switch.

 

Sometimes the "suck it and see" approach is the best way to discover the answer provided you can find a low cost way of conducting the experiment and that's a low cost way of doing it.

 

 

Thank you very much, David!

 

i do not have the SOtM switch yet. I recently bought the sMS-200Ultra Neo + SPS-500 to use as a Roon and HQPlayer naa endpoint, and to replace an intel NUC which i'm redesignating as Roon/HQplayer core, and placing the NUC in another room. as usual, curiosity got the better of me, and i am reading up on the SOtM switch and the txultrausb unit as well.

 

i assume my whole house (condo unit) is on the same mains switch. i guess the SOtM switch is on the cards regardless; to be honest i'm not sure if an audiophile switch will even make a difference, or whether i'm just looking for an excuse to spend some money. i'll probably give it a try, as well as try out a fiber connection just to satisfy my curiosity.

 

is this the startech cable you were referring to?

 

https://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-SFP-H10GB-CU2M-Compatible-10-Gigabit-Ethernet-Passive/dp/B00B3T6BFU/ref=sr_1_19?dchild=1&keywords=Startech+sfp&qid=1590537077&sr=8-19

 

 

**edit

 

i just saw this from an audiophile style review and interview with SOtM:

 

Q : How to use the optical ports? What is the benefits of the ports?
A : The SFP ports on sNH-10G can also bring benefits from the filtering feature which were explained on above. But we recommend using RJ45 ports with the good quality network cable like dCBL-CAT7 & iSO-CAT6 combination over using the optical ports, because the connection with RJ45 and dCBL-CAT7&iSO-CAT6 could bring the better sound quality than SFP ports.

 

anyhow, if i do get the switch, i will probably give fiber a try just to see if it does make a difference or not. the cost of the startech cable is not prohibitive.

[Superdad]

2 hours ago, Roasty said:

If I get an SOtM SNH-10g switch:

1) to use the fiber connection on the switch to the ER, I just need to get two sfp cages and a length of fiber cable? 

 

56 minutes ago, Roasty said:

to be honest i'm not sure if an audiophile switch will even make a difference, or whether i'm just looking for an excuse to spend some money. i'll probably give it a try, as well as try out a fiber connection just to satisfy my curiosity.

 

Hi Roasty:

Well

a) you already have an "audiophile" switch (EtherREGEN) so you know what it can do;

b) you could buy a second EtherREGEN and run fiber from it to you first one, and save a bunch of money versus that other brand. That would satisfy both your "excuse to spend some money" and your excuse to save money.  Performance will be quite excellent and space will also be saved.

Just sayin'...

 

[Mike Rubin]

1 hour ago, Roasty said:

 

 

 

is this the startech cable you were referring to?

 

https://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-SFP-H10GB-CU2M-Compatible-10-Gigabit-Ethernet-Passive/dp/B00B3T6BFU/ref=sr_1_19?dchild=1&keywords=Startech+sfp&qid=1590537077&sr=8-19

 

 

 

anyhow, if i do get the switch, i will probably give fiber a try just to see if it does make a difference or not. the cost of the startech cable is not prohibitive.

I don't know anything for sure about that Startech SFP/cable combo but that looks like copper, not optical, to me.  I have no idea whether that would provide the same isolation benefits as does optical, but, if that is a copper connection, I think I would just get optical SFP's and cable and not wonder about isolation capability.

 

Prices aren't much higher for optical.

 

If the Startech combo is optical, please just disregard this post.

[JohnSwenson]

On 5/24/2020 at 5:05 PM, ikemi said:

Hi Guys,

 

Quick question. I’m pretty sure I know the answer, but I just want to confirm. Plugging the etherregen, which is getting power from an external LPS, into the same dedicated mains circuit as my streamer/player, which has its own internal power supply, does not defeat the etherregen’s isolation correct? The streamer/player is downstream from the etherregen i.e on the b side of the etherregen. Thanks!

 

Ron

The safety grounds on all the circuits in your house are SUPPOSED to be connected together, so it doesn't matter if the two power supplies are connected to the same circuit. In many cases connecting to the same circuit will sound Better than separate circuits. But there is no hard and fast rule about that. This sort of thing is very system specific.

 

My usual suggestion is plug the power supplies into whatever is convenient. Most of the time that will get you quite close to "the absolute best no matter what" so just make it easy and don't worry, unless you have a LOT of money and time and don't know what to do with them.

[Roasty]

1 hour ago, Mike Rubin said:

I don't know anything for sure about that Startech SFP/cable combo but that looks like copper, not optical, to me.  I have no idea whether that would provide the same isolation benefits as does optical, but, if that is a copper connection, I think I would just get optical SFP's and cable and not wonder about isolation capability.

 

Prices aren't much higher for optical.

 

If the Startech combo is optical, please just disregard this post.

 

thanks very much for that. you are right, it looks like copper. 

 

 

[Roasty]

1 hour ago, Superdad said:

 

 

Hi Roasty:

Well

a) you already have an "audiophile" switch (EtherREGEN) so you know what it can do;

b) you could buy a second EtherREGEN and run fiber from it to you first one, and save a bunch of money versus that other brand. That would satisfy both your "excuse to spend some money" and your excuse to save money.  Performance will be quite excellent and space will also be saved.

Just sayin'...

 

 

ha ha ha! you are absolutely right about the ER. silly me..!

The ER is great and i wouldnt remove it. but just feel like trying something new and see what it brings to the table. The SNH-10G seems to fit the bill; looks good, supposedly sounds good, lots of ports etc. 

[Ken2020]

HI,

 

Does the EtherRegen come with a Optical SFP cage?

[elan120]

2 hours ago, Ken2020 said:

Does the EtherRegen come with a Optical SFP cage?

Yes, it does, only need to install a SFP transceiver of your choice.

 

[Roasty]

Hey guys! quick question..

 

according to the description on the ER page:

 

The circuitry across the ADIM™ (moat) is designed to eliminate the signal-borne phase-noise from one side to the other. EtherREGEN is mostly symmetrical—there is no “dirty side” or “clean side.”

 

But the general recommendation is for the ER "B" side to be connected to the dac/streamer side correct? because although "phase noise" between the ports on the A side is reduced, it is not reduced as much as over the A-B moat.

 

so in what instance/situation would someone want to reverse it? ie go from B side to A.

 

 

[octaviars]

5 minutes ago, Roasty said:

so in what instance/situation would someone want to reverse it? ie go from B side to A.

 

If you have an "endpoint" with fiber input like a Sonore opticalrendu or a Lumin X1 for example.

[Superdad]

ATTENTION EtherREGEN enthusiasts:

Please use the below linked thread for ALL discussions of power supplies, clocks, weights, heatsinks, cables, and other tweaks.

 

Please preserve the thread you are currently reading for questions regarding installation and usage, and reports of difficulty. And of course you EtherREGEN mavens are welcome to help out and answer those questions.

Thanks very much!

[I just moved a few pages of posts over to the other thread, and I also "pinned" that thread so it is more readily see near the top of our forum area.]

 

 

 

[Flashman]

Excellent change @Superdad

[Roasty]

So I just set up an SOtM stack (200ultra neo, snh-10g, txusbultra) with full mods and clocks. Using planet tech sfp modules and singlemode patch cable from the snh-10g to the ER.

 

DSD sounds really really good now. I usually prefer PCM as I felt it sounded more dynamic, with clearer highs and more impactful bass. But now I'm really enjoying DSD upsampling. 

 

Have some FINISAR sfp modules on the way; supposedly these are "better" than the ones I have, well according to the folks on the sotm switch thread on whatsbestforum. 

 

Setting up the ER for fiber use was a breeze. Good job for including that option, Uptone guys! 

 

My cable mess right now. I think I've really gone overboard with my headphones setup. 

 

On occasion, I wonder what it would be like to go back to full basic and stock mode and remove everything out of the chain. With supplied power cables and basic interconnects, usb cables and ethernet cables.. But right now it seems like the point of no return.

 

[Guidof]

[I am posting this on both the Sonore and Uptone threads as it involves both manufacturers' equipment]

 

Here is my digital chain: modem, NAS, and WIN 10 desktop, all plugged into router. From router, WiFi bridge to Uptone etherREGEN (CAT6a) switch powered from Uptone "brick", to Sonore ultraRENDU (CAT6a) end point powered from Uptone LPS-1.2 energized from Uptone "brick", to Benchmark DAC 2D (Phasure Lush^2). Playback (Squeezelite) controlled with SqueezePad on iPad Air)

 

Everything worked perfectly until yesterday when the local utility suddenly cut power for about two minutes. When power came back, nothing worked and multiple attempts to restore the system were unsuccessful. Eventually, power cycling everything starting from the DAC backward did succeed in restoring music. HOWEVER, attempting to play DSD files (DoP encapsulated) resulted first in bricking everything again and later in "playing" music (as shown from progress in SqueezePad) but with no sound. Every other file plays fine.

 

The DAC diagnostics seem OK (see below)

 

Jesus R., Alex C., anyone else? Any suggestions for fixing this issue will be greatly appreciated.

Benchmark DAC2 Benchmark DAC2 USB Audio 2.0 at usb-ci_hdrc.1-1.1, high speed : USB Audio

[Superdad]

3 minutes ago, Guidof said:

Jesus R., Alex C., anyone else? Any suggestions for fixing this issue will be greatly appreciated.

Benchmark DAC2 Benchmark DAC2 USB Audio 2.0 at usb-ci_hdrc.1-1.1, high speed : USB Audio

 

Hi: Please contact me directly via telephone and I will have to personally assist you in diagnosis and hopefully a solution.  1-209-966-4377.  Please give me an hour (so 3:00 Pacific time) as I am now going to each lunch.

Thanks,

ALEX

[Guidof]

2 hours ago, Guidof said:

[I am posting this on both the Sonore and Uptone threads as it involves both manufacturers' equipment]

 

Here is my digital chain: modem, NAS, and WIN 10 desktop, all plugged into router. From router, WiFi bridge to Uptone etherREGEN (CAT6a) switch powered from Uptone "brick", to Sonore ultraRENDU (CAT6a) end point powered from Uptone LPS-1.2 energized from Uptone "brick", to Benchmark DAC 2D (Phasure Lush^2). Playback (Squeezelite) controlled with SqueezePad on iPad Air)

 

Everything worked perfectly until yesterday when the local utility suddenly cut power for about two minutes. When power came back, nothing worked and multiple attempts to restore the system were unsuccessful. Eventually, power cycling everything starting from the DAC backward did succeed in restoring music. HOWEVER, attempting to play DSD files (DoP encapsulated) resulted first in bricking everything again and later in "playing" music (as shown from progress in SqueezePad) but with no sound. Every other file plays fine.

 

The DAC diagnostics seem OK (see below)

 

Jesus R., Alex C., anyone else? Any suggestions for fixing this issue will be greatly appreciated.

Benchmark DAC2 Benchmark DAC2 USB Audio 2.0 at usb-ci_hdrc.1-1.1, high speed : USB Audio

 

Here is the rest of the DAC diagnostics, which had gotten chopped off somehow:

Benchmark DAC2 Benchmark DAC2 USB Audio 2.0 at usb-ci_hdrc.1-1.1, high speed : USB Audio

Playback:
  Status: Running
    Interface = 1
    Altset = 1
    Packet Size = 144
    Momentary freq = 95998 Hz (0xb.fff0)
    Feedback Format = 16.16
  Interface 1
    Altset 1
    Format: S32_LE
    Channels: 2
    Endpoint: 1 OUT (ASYNC)
    Rates: 44100, 48000, 88200, 96000, 176400, 192000
    Data packet interval: 125 us

access: RW_INTERLEAVED
format: S32_LE
subformat: STD
channels: 2
rate: 96000 (96000/1)
period_size: 960
buffer_size: 3840

Simple mixer control 'Benchmark DAC2 Audio 2.0 Output Playback Sw',0
  Capabilities: pswitch
  Playback channels: Front Left - Front Right
  Mono:
  Front Left: Playback [on]
  Front Right: Playback [on]
Simple mixer control 'Benchmark DAC2 Audio 2.0 Output Playback Sw',1
  Capabilities: pswitch pswitch-joined
  Playback channels: Mono
  Mono: Playback [on]
Simple mixer control 'Benchmark DAC2 Audio 2.0 Output Playback Vo',0
  Capabilities: volume
  Playback channels: Front Left - Front Right
  Capture channels: Front Left - Front Right
  Limits: 0 - 127
  Front Left: 127 [100%]
  Front Right: 127 [100%]
Simple mixer control 'Benchmark DAC2 Audio 2.0 Output Playback Vo',1
  Capabilities: volume volume-joined
  Playback channels: Mono
  Capture channels: Mono
  Limits: 0 - 127
  Mono: 127 [100%]
Simple mixer control 'Benchmark DAC2 Internal Clock Validity',0
  Capabilities: pswitch pswitch-joined
  Playback channels: Mono
  Mono: Playback [on]

[Superdad]

10 minutes ago, Guidof said:

 

Here is the rest of the DAC diagnostics, which had gotten chopped off somehow:

Benchmark DAC2 Benchmark DAC2 USB Audio 2.0 at usb-ci_hdrc.1-1.1, high speed : USB Audio

 

Hi Guido:

It was nice to chat with you on the telephone this afternoon.

Since you indicted that the problem with playback of DSD persists even with the EtherREGEN removed from the chain, we must conclude the trouble lay elsewhere. As discussed, your wi-fi link is the most likely suspect. DSD is more/faster data rate than 16/44.1 PCM, so perhaps something happened when your utility cut power.  Hopefully Sonore will have some suggestions/solution for you.

With warm regards,

--Alex C.

 

[willyhot]

Recently my house experienced an electricity outage, after that, the ER starts dropping connection.

 

IP address can be detected but when playing songs it pauses very frequently.  I tried below but no luck:

 

1. restart ER by reconnecting power

2. reconnecting both A side and B side Ethernet cable

 

Any suggestion on what should I try further? shall I try updating firmware again? (mine is first batch and have been DIY updated firmware before)

 

[Superdad]

23 minutes ago, willyhot said:

Recently my house experienced an electricity outage, after that, the ER starts dropping connection.

 

Hi Willy:

The problem is most likely not with the EtherREGEN itself, but something else in your system. 

Can you post a diagram or list of your gear and network?

And have you fully powered off and on every component in your system—including networking gear upstream?

 

You certainly do not need to reflash the EtherREGEN’s firmware. 

 

Let us know what you discover. 

Goodnight,

—Alex C.

[Guidof]

On 6/10/2020 at 4:27 PM, Superdad said:

 

Hi Guido:

It was nice to chat with you on the telephone this afternoon.

Since you indicted that the problem with playback of DSD persists even with the EtherREGEN removed from the chain, we must conclude the trouble lay elsewhere. As discussed, your wi-fi link is the most likely suspect. DSD is more/faster data rate than 16/44.1 PCM, so perhaps something happened when your utility cut power.  Hopefully Sonore will have some suggestions/solution for you.

With warm regards,

--Alex C.

 

 

It was a pleasure talking with you on the phone. And congratulations on the new deck! We have a big one here that needs some basic structural work so I can feel your pain with replacing the old one.

 

The etherREGEN is definitely innocent. But the source of the problem appears to be the LPS-1.2. I removed the latter from the chain and powered the ultraRendu from the Uptone brick and DSD played with no problem at all. So it seems that the sudden power cut and equally sudden re-power (surge?) did something bad to the LPS-1.2. Strange, though, that it affects only DSD files. Everything else, including 24/192 stuff plays fine.

 

Where do we go from here?