EtherREGEN: Installation, Usage, Difficulty, Questions thread

[nonesup]

Only two out of 1,200?  .  If I had known, I would have bought a lottery ticket.😀

[Blackfiction]

Hi, I am not really familiar with grounding...can I use the cable from the picture and connect the yellow/green part to the etherregen and the schuko to a wall socket?
if not, could anyone please explain how to do it and what cable should be used?
thanks!

[Superdad]

17 minutes ago, Blackfiction said:

Hi, I am not really familiar with grounding...can I use the cable from the picture and connect the yellow/green part to the etherregen and the schuko to a wall socket?
if not, could anyone please explain how to do it and what cable should be used?
thanks!

 

That will work just fine provided that:

a) You are certain that the green/yellow wire is the ground wire and not one of the hot lines (that's where a continuity/beep meter comes in handy);

b) You do something VERY safe and secure to seal off the two hot wires (certainly don't leave them striped, yet still put either wire nuts or electrical tape over the tips--or both);

c) You promise never to sue us for injury cause by any mistakes made with regards any of this advice. 

[mrkoven]

I bought a second-hand EtherRegen but have a quick question on usage. I have an ethernet jack from the wall that I currently use a switch to connect my PC, TV, and a Lumin streamer. Is it best to connect the ER to wall and plug my PC, TV, Lumin into it? Or should I plug the ER into the switch and only have my Lumin on it. I'm not sure if it's advisable to only have the audio stream on the ER or if it's irrelevant. Thanks. 

[mourip]

7 hours ago, mrkoven said:

I bought a second-hand EtherRegen but have a quick question on usage. I have an ethernet jack from the wall that I currently use a switch to connect my PC, TV, and a Lumin streamer. Is it best to connect the ER to wall and plug my PC, TV, Lumin into it? Or should I plug the ER into the switch and only have my Lumin on it. I'm not sure if it's advisable to only have the audio stream on the ER or if it's irrelevant. Thanks. 

 

I experimented with this a couple of weeks ago. I found that only having the LAN connection and my music server connected to the "A" side sounded best. When I also plugged in my Roku and Apple TV ethernet cables to the "A" side I had an audible decrease in SQ. I did think that my video and the SQ from my TV was slightly better when those cables were plugged into the ER. When I listen to music I just unplug those cables now. Try it and see how it works for you. YMMV 🙂

[mourip]

21 hours ago, Blackfiction said:

Hi, I am not really familiar with grounding...can I use the cable from the picture and connect the yellow/green part to the etherregen and the schuko to a wall socket?
if not, could anyone please explain how to do it and what cable should be used?
thanks!

 

If you are not confident working with line/mains voltage or testing for continuity you might want to buy something like this. Just cut off the snap-on connector and strip back a bit of the wire to connect to the ER binding post. The hot pins on this plug have no connection, just the ground.

 

https://shop.statech.ch/en/esd-protected-area/cables-connectors/grounding-cord-2-5m-10mm-socket-schuko-plug-1m

 

[soares]

On 4/28/2020 at 7:40 PM, Superdad said:

 

Hi Blake:

You can certainly try it that way but in general we discourage EtherREGEN owners from using "bridged" Ethernet ports in their servers as such can sometimes cause extra latency and hiccups (stuttering, dropouts, loss of connectivity) with some network audio software protocols (Roon RAAT, Signalyst NAA, DLNA, etc.).

 

[As an aside, despite Melco's vague description about their Ethernet ports, looking at high-res photos of the N1A Mk.2 motherboard just shows two ports with (naturally) separate magnetics--and separate PHYs (the larger of the two probably contains the Ethernet controller for both). And I am not too keen on how far away they put those PHYs from the magnetics. (Look in red rectangle at top of the below pic.) Still, I very much applaud whatever efforts they have made with the ports. ]

 

Hi Alex! 
No problems from my side using the bridged ports of my Innuos Zen MKIII.

Best, Jorge

[Blake]

On 4/28/2020 at 12:40 PM, Superdad said:

 

Hi Blake:

You can certainly try it that way but in general we discourage EtherREGEN owners from using "bridged" Ethernet ports in their servers as such can sometimes cause extra latency and hiccups (stuttering, dropouts, loss of connectivity) with some network audio software protocols (Roon RAAT, Signalyst NAA, DLNA, etc.).

 

[As an aside, despite Melco's vague description about their Ethernet ports, looking at high-res photos of the N1A Mk.2 motherboard just shows two ports with (naturally) separate magnetics--and separate PHYs (the larger of the two probably contains the Ethernet controller for both). And I am not too keen on how far away they put those PHYs from the magnetics. (Look in red rectangle at top of the below pic.) Still, I very much applaud whatever efforts they have made with the ports. ]

 

 

Here is my update in case we have other Melco/EtherRegen users.  I went ahead with my experiments:

 

Option 1:

 

Airport Express > Ethernet cable > Melco N1/A2 Network input > Melco Network output > ethernet cable > (A) EtherRegen (B) > ethernet cable > Sonore UltraRendu

 

Findings:

 

Operational Issues:  Option 1 works perfectly, with no dropouts or other issues.

 

Sonics:  For the experiment I am just streaming from Tidal, in order to focus on the Ethernet performance of the Melco, working in combination with the EtherRegen.  Does the Melco improve the chain?  As background, I am exceptionally happy with my EtherRegen.  I have found, as have some others, that the quality of cabling and components upstream of the EtherRegen still matter (unfortunately for my wallet).  In fact, I think they matter much more than they did before I introduced the EtherRegen to my system.  I also find running a good LPS to the EtherRegen brings worthwhile improvements.

 

My system sounds sounds significantly better with the Melco in the chain.    

 

Whatever Melco is doing to improve ethernet performance, it works.  As compared to the sound before I added the Melco, with the Melco now in place, music flows in a more natural, relaxed manner (comparatively, there is an easing of tension as compared to what I had before, which was not tense per se, it just seems so in comparison).  The music just washes over you, yet, at the same time transparency increases by a very notable degree with improved perception of tiny details and plankton.  Ambient cues are even more noticeable and decays seem to go on forever.  The sound stage opens up even more, with increased air around everything and my speakers disappear to a greater degree with the music occupying the room without any reference to my system.  Definitely more of the "musicians are in my room" feeling.  Simply wonderful. 

 

Inserting the Melco in the audio chain going directly to EtherRegen acts as an additional cleanser, or a chaining of improvements. 

 

In terms of my subjective impressions of the degree of improvement, just based on Tidal streaming, I would say the sonic improvements introduced by the Melco are equal to the sonic improvements I experience with the EtherRegen.  The best word I can use to describe the combo is "stunning".   

 

(Caveats: my ears, my subjective value judgments, my system, in an optimized, dedicated music room, with absorption and diffusion room treatments, bass traps, optimal speaker and listening chair placements, etc., so YMMV)

[lxgreen]

I currently have this set up:

 

cable modem with one Ethernet output

ethernet from modem to Orbi router 

ethernet from Orbi router to Cisco switch 

ethernet from switch to EtherRegen A side

ethernet from EtherRegen B side to Dac

 

is there a benefit to, rather than feed The EtherRegen from the switch, to run another Ethernet cable from an open port on the Orbi router directly to EtherRegen?

 

[Jud]

19 hours ago, lxgreen said:

I currently have this set up:

 

cable modem with one Ethernet output

ethernet from modem to Orbi router 

ethernet from Orbi router to Cisco switch 

ethernet from switch to EtherRegen A side

ethernet from EtherRegen B side to Dac

 

is there a benefit to, rather than feed The EtherRegen from the switch, to run another Ethernet cable from an open port on the Orbi router directly to EtherRegen?

 

 

Perhaps try it and see? I personally prefer having the extra switch (and in my case its SMPS power supply) out of the chain, but YMMV.

[Roasty]

I am sending upsampled music from main pc using HQplayer to an Intel Nuc using HQPlayer NAA. My dac is capable of 1.536m pcm playback. 

 

I found that if I listened to MQA music upsampled to 1.536m pcm sent to nuc (naa) I would get short stops/gaps in the music every 20 to 25 seconds (regular and consistent). However, non MQA music did not have any issues (these were upsampled to 1.4112M). 

 

I spent days trying to troubleshoot this, and turns out the problem is with the ER B side port. 

 

If I remove the ER from the chain, I get playback with no issues at 1.536M.
If I connect ER to nuc (NAA) using only the A side ports, playback with no issues.
If I connect ER to nuc using ethernet cable from the B side port, I get the problem of gaps/stops in music.

 

Must be something to do with the B side port on the EtherRegen which is limited to 100mbps transmission rate.

 

Am relieved I found out what the issue was. Now to consider if I want the ER or I want 1.536m pcm playback.

[JohnSwenson]

There is also another possibility, we have found that NAA can do weird things if the port on the computer that is running HQP is gigbit, but a switch along the way converts to 100M (such as the ER) flow control is turned off and problems in playback occur. What seems to be happening is HQP sees it is connected to a gigbit port so it turns off flow control and sends data out in high speed bursts. But with a gig to 100M switch in the path the 100M side can't keep up with the that high speed burst, data is lost, and since flow control is turned off it can't tell HQP to slow it down.

 

IF this is what is happening you might be able to fix it by putting a 100M max switch between the HQP computer and the A side of the ER. That way HQP sees it is connected to a 100M port and sends the data out slowly so it doesn't have a problem when it gets to the 100M port on the ER.

 

John S.

[ambre]

1 hour ago, Roasty said:

I am sending upsampled music from main pc using HQplayer to an Intel Nuc using HQPlayer NAA. My dac is capable of 1.536m pcm playback. 

 

I found that if I listened to MQA music upsampled to 1.536m pcm sent to nuc (naa) I would get short stops/gaps in the music every 20 to 25 seconds (regular and consistent). However, non MQA music did not have any issues (these were upsampled to 1.4112M). 

 

I spent days trying to troubleshoot this, and turns out the problem is with the ER B side port. 

 

If I remove the ER from the chain, I get playback with no issues at 1.536M.
If I connect ER to nuc (NAA) using only the A side ports, playback with no issues.
If I connect ER to nuc using ethernet cable from the B side port, I get the problem of gaps/stops in music.

 

Must be something to do with the B side port on the EtherRegen which is limited to 100mbps transmission rate.

 

Am relieved I found out what the issue was. Now to consider if I want the ER or I want 1.536m pcm playback.

Hi Roasty,

 

if you upsample to Dsd 512 or even higher looking at specs Dac what happens than?

Ps. HqPlayer designer has a clear preference for DSD instead PCM  (me too )

 

Can this issue be solved  within HQp? We need to ask Jussy about this.Instead of an additional 

switch.

 

I do have sometimes micro pops but suspected   that DIETPI in case of the Allo Usbridge Signature was or is the Root cause?
 

We learn every day!

 

Very best regards, Andreas

 

[Roasty]

1 hour ago, JohnSwenson said:

 

 

IF this is what is happening you might be able to fix it by putting a 100M max switch between the HQP computer and the A side of the ER. That way HQP sees it is connected to a 100M port and sends the data out slowly so it doesn't have a problem when it gets to the 100M port on the ER.

 

John S.

 

I have the HQPlayer PC in another room, then NUC NAA in lounge. 

 

Lounge: ethernet > Gigabit switch > ER a port > B port to Nuc NAA

 

So u suggest to try putting a 100M max switch in between the lounge Gigabit switch and ER? 

 

I gotta look around.. Haha I don't think I have a max 100M switch in the house.. 

 

[Roasty]

29 minutes ago, ambre said:

Hi Roasty,

 

if you upsample to Dsd 512 or even higher looking at specs Dac what happens than?

Ps. HqPlayer designer has a clear preference for DSD instead PCM  (me too )

 

Can this issue be solved  within HQp? We need to ask Jussy about this.Instead of an additional 

switch.

 

I do have sometimes micro pops but suspected   that DIETPI in case of the Allo Usbridge Signature was or is the Root cause?
 

We learn every day!

 

Very best regards, Andreas

 

 

Hi Andreas.

 

No issue with DSD512 at all.

 

Only have issues with highest rate of pcm (1.536m). I did bring up this issue in the Roon Community hqplayer thread. Jussi did not reply to this particular problem, but he has helped me out on other issues before. 

[ambre]

1 hour ago, Roasty said:

 

Hi Andreas.

 

No issue with DSD512 at all.

 

Only have issues with highest rate of pcm (1.536m). I did bring up this issue in the Roon Community hqplayer thread. Jussi did not reply to this particular problem, but he has helped me out on other issues before. 

Hi Roasty,

that was before Uptone did abovementioned statement concerning the wonderful EtherRegen.
 

Maybe we can do something in network settings Os Apple??

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

5 hours ago, JohnSwenson said:

There is also another possibility, we have found that NAA can do weird things if the port on the computer that is running HQP is gigbit, but a switch along the way converts to 100M (such as the ER) flow control is turned off and problems in playback occur. What seems to be happening is HQP sees it is connected to a gigbit port so it turns off flow control and sends data out in high speed bursts. But with a gig to 100M switch in the path the 100M side can't keep up with the that high speed burst, data is lost, and since flow control is turned off it can't tell HQP to slow it down.

 

IF this is what is happening you might be able to fix it by putting a 100M max switch between the HQP computer and the A side of the ER. That way HQP sees it is connected to a 100M port and sends the data out slowly so it doesn't have a problem when it gets to the 100M port on the ER.

 

John S.

Or, if the HQP system runs on an OS allowing one to set the speed of the NIC, setting it to 100 Mbps should be fine. 

[Superdad]

9 hours ago, Roasty said:

I have the HQPlayer PC in another room, then NUC NAA in lounge. 

Lounge: ethernet > Gigabit switch > ER a port > B port to Nuc NAA

 

9 hours ago, Roasty said:

I did bring up this issue in the Roon Community hqplayer thread. Jussi did not reply to this particular problem, but he has helped me out on other issues before. 

 

We often suggest that Roon users try to directly connect whatever is their Roon Core server (and sometimes their NAS) directly to an 'A' side port of the EtherREGEN. Sometimes having the Core server (or the music data) too far upstream (on other switches, etc.) can cause problems for the Roon RAAT protocol. Usually this is with regards to Roon Bridge or NAA endpoints disappearing momentarily (or semi-permanently depending upon endpoint and the full chain) because Roon is checking constantly to see that the endpoint is still there, and a bit of extra latency can fool it into thinking the endpoint is gone.

We have also seen issues at high sample rates with multiple switches while Roon is also doing a lot of its metadata and indexing stuff.

 

Some combination of either John Swenson's above suggestion or my suggestion for more direct to EtherREGEN 'A'-side connections are likely to solve the issue for most people.  

[Roasty]

4 hours ago, Superdad said:

 

 

We often suggest that Roon users try to directly connect whatever is their Roon Core server (and sometimes their NAS) directly to an 'A' side port of the EtherREGEN.  

 

OK this will be tough as the Roon Core pc is in another room. Unless, I get another ER for the other room? 

[Roasty]

Just a quick short story. 

Due to the problem I'm having above, I removed the ER from my chain. I had a short listening session but felt something was missing. Plugged the ER back in, and figured since I'm at it, might as well ask my wife to confirm the ER is a good thing. 

 

I had her listen to the same song several times, each time playing the first 40 to 50 seconds. 

 

She was asked not take off headphones and sat facing away from me.  I did three quick sessions with short break in between. 

 

First session ER out of chain, and then ER in chain. 

Second session ER in, ER in, then ER out. 

Third session ER out, ER in, ER out, ER out, ER in. 

 

She managed to pick the ER each time.

 

I was quite relieved because I also do frequent ASR and read Amir's reviews etc and some of my audio purchases were based on his reviews and product measurements. 

 

I tried explaining to her what the ER was and how there were two camps, one saying ER works and the other ER doesn't work. 

 

She said "u know what, I really don't care" and then walked off to make a snack. 

 

[Superdad]

33 minutes ago, Roasty said:

She said "u know what, I really don't care" and then walked off to make a snack. 

 

ROTFLMAO!!!  

Thanks...

[David A]

26 minutes ago, Roasty said:

Just a quick short story. 

 

…

 

She said "u know what, I really don't care" and then walked off to make a snack. 

 

 

I remember having some people over years ago when I still used discs. These people weren't interested in audio, looked at my system which is in a separate room, and said they wouldn't be able to tell a difference between it and a "normal" system. Most of our afternoon was spent in the living room chatting but every now and then one of the women in the group would wander off and listen to the system which was playing in the background. I wandered into the room on a couple of occasions and observed whoever was in there sitting in the listening chair, eyes closed, with a silly grin on their face and obviously enjoying the sound immensely. None of them went out and did anything to improve whatever they had at home as far as I know.

 

Non-audiophiles tend to say that they won't be able to hear a difference simply because they have no experience of really good sound but give them the opportunity and they have no difficulty in hearing the difference. What they don't have is any strong interest in listening to music as an activity in itself, they tend to use music as background and as long as they're enjoying what they hear they don't have a desire to go out and buy something that will give even more enjoyment to them. That simply isn't their priority because they aren't fascinated by the sound of music in the way that we are. They can certainly hear the things that we hear but the differences aren't personally important to them.

 

I once had a guy who felt that way about music listen to my system and ask me about its cost. I told him and he said that he could hear the difference but he wouldn't spend that much chasing it but he also said he could understand why I was doing that. He then told me about how much he had spent making performance improvements to his car, something I've never done with mine because that doesn't interest me. It's very much "different strokes for different folks".

[PYP]

43 minutes ago, Roasty said:

She said "u know what, I really don't care" and then walked off to make a snack. 

 

Tried something similar with my wife years ago.  She could hear the changes immediately and picked the same cables I had wanted.  But...let's just say that was the last time we did that because she found it meaningless and, I'm sure, questioned my sanity.

 

You are not alone!    Poor audiophile wives.  They put up with a lot.  Hope you can get the eR working in your system.  

[Roasty]

16 minutes ago, David A said:

 

That simply isn't their priority because they aren't fascinated by the sound of music in the way that we are. They can certainly hear the things that we hear but the differences aren't personally important to them.

 

 

 

You're right. These people are the best ones to ask for help when u wanna find out if your system sounds better or worse with a particular component.

 

They won't care about the price, build quality, how it measures, or the science or non-science behind it. But they can offer us a simple "this is good" or "this is not nice" response, which is sometimes, really just what we're looking for. 

[GryphonGuy]

7 hours ago, Superdad said:

 

 

We often suggest that Roon users try to directly connect whatever is their Roon Core server (and sometimes their NAS) directly to an 'A' side port of the EtherREGEN. Sometimes having the Core server (or the music data) too far upstream (on other switches, etc.) can cause problems for the Roon RAAT protocol. Usually this is with regards to Roon Bridge or NAA endpoints disappearing momentarily (or semi-permanently depending upon endpoint and the full chain) because Roon is checking constantly to see that the endpoint is still there, and a bit of extra latency can fool it into thinking the endpoint is gone.

We have also seen issues at high sample rates with multiple switches while Roon is also doing a lot of its metadata and indexing stuff.

 

Some combination of either John Swenson's above suggestion or my suggestion for more direct to EtherREGEN 'A'-side connections are likely to solve the issue for most people.  

 

Wireless bridges certainly break Roon if the endpoint is remotely located over the wireless bridge. I concur with your solution that placing a switch on the same side of the bridge with the Roon server and Roon endpoint on that switch is the only way I could get it to work on my LAN/WLAN.

 

I have now removed the need for a wireless bridge by have a long optical fibre link to the EtherREGEN.

 

Regards

GG