EtherREGEN: Installation, Usage, Difficulty, Questions thread

[octaviars]

34 minutes ago, Vangelis said:

Plugged into A side of ER:

Cable providers modem via 2 ft Transparent Audio Ethernet cable

TP-Link AC 1200 WiFi router via 2 ft Transparent Audio Ethernet cable

 

If the ISP modem have no router I think you need to go from modem to routers WAN port then from routers LAN port to eR A-side so you get the DHCP function from the router.

[octaviars]

I think the router have one blue port (WAN) that you connect to your modem and from one of the yellow ports (LAN) you connect to the eR. 

[Superdad]

32 minutes ago, ericuco said:

Have you tried:

Modem > Router > ER "A" > ER "B" > Innuos

 

Actually, that exact change worked for another new EtherREGEN/Innous user earlier this week. 

Or you can plug the WiFi router directly into your modem.  

 

With both the modem and the router plugged into the EtherREGEN ‘A’ side ports the Innous may be getting confused about where to get its IP address from.  

I know this shouldn’t be, but as mentioned, someone else this week had the same setup and cured by feeding the EtherREGEN from the WiFi router. 

[Vangelis]

47 minutes ago, ericuco said:

 

Have you tried:

 

Modem > Router > ER "A" > ER "B" > Innuos

 

Having the ER between your modem and router doesn't seem to make sense to me but then again I am no network expert.

I wasn’t planning on a second router unless it’s a buffer that would allow the Er to see the server on the network. 

[Vangelis]

50 minutes ago, octaviars said:

 

If the ISP modem have no router I think you need to go from modem to routers WAN port then from routers LAN port to eR A-side so you get the DHCP function from the router.

 

3 minutes ago, Vangelis said:

I wasn’t planning on a second router unless it’s a buffer that would allow the Er to see the server on the network. 

I could try that but that will probably introduce more noise from the cheesy Wi-Fi router into the network? 

[Vangelis]

18 minutes ago, Superdad said:

 

Actually, that exact change worked for another new EtherREGEN/Innous user earlier this week. 

Or you can plug the WiFi router directly into your modem.  

 

With both the modem and the router plugged into the EtherREGEN ‘A’ side ports the Innous may be getting confused about where to get its IP address from.  

I know this shouldn’t be, but as mentioned, someone else this week had the same setup and cured by feeding the EtherREGEN from the WiFi router. 

I bit confused, If the modem is plugged into the WiFi router and then the WiFi router is plugged into the ER, then actually the modem will not be plugged directly into the ER, correct?  Keeping in mind this would not work but, If the Wi-Fi router and the modem could both be plugged into the ER separately, wouldn’t that be less noisy?

[Vangelis]

56 minutes ago, octaviars said:

I think the router have one blue port (WAN) that you connect to your modem and from one of the yellow ports (LAN) you connect to the eR. 

I will try that LAN color arrangement. 
Thanks

[Vangelis]

The  detail I omitted was that the 20 foot cable is going to another room where the cable and modems enters the house. This was done specifically during the build to get the spaghetti out of the audio room. I’m sure a lot of people have huge runs of ethernet cable, sometimes not the best quality, that is home runned through the house to wall jacks. Wall jacks and off-the-shelf ethernet cable may not be the best quality but many home owners are stuck with their existing construction . At least my 20 foot run is a dedicated line. Somewhere I read in the  ER manual or on the Uptone website that the short runs are preferred, but I’m not sure if a 20 feet run will have much or any any impact on the sound if it’s a really high-quality cable like my Transparent Audio Ethernet cable. 

[David A]

34 minutes ago, Vangelis said:

The  detail I omitted was that the 20 foot cable is going to another room where the cable and modems enters the house. This was done specifically during the build to get the spaghetti out of the audio room. I’m sure a lot of people have huge runs of ethernet cable, sometimes not the best quality, that is home runned through the house to wall jacks. Wall jacks and off-the-shelf ethernet cable may not be the best quality but many home owners are stuck with their existing construction . At least my 20 foot run is a dedicated line. Somewhere I read in the  ER manual or on the Uptone website that the short runs are preferred, but I’m not sure if a 20 feet run will have much or any any impact on the sound if it’s a really high-quality cable like my Transparent Audio Ethernet cable. 

 

So if I'm reading things correctly, you have the ER in the room with the modem and the router.

 

You could try going modem to router to wall point in that room and then in your audio room going wall point to ER to Innuos so you actually have a short cable between the ER and the Innuos. That may, or may not, give a better result but I think it's worth a try.

 

[ericuco]

2 hours ago, Vangelis said:

The  detail I omitted was that the 20 foot cable is going to another room where the cable and modems enters the house. This was done specifically during the build to get the spaghetti out of the audio room. I’m sure a lot of people have huge runs of ethernet cable, sometimes not the best quality, that is home runned through the house to wall jacks. Wall jacks and off-the-shelf ethernet cable may not be the best quality but many home owners are stuck with their existing construction . At least my 20 foot run is a dedicated line. Somewhere I read in the  ER manual or on the Uptone website that the short runs are preferred, but I’m not sure if a 20 feet run will have much or any any impact on the sound if it’s a really high-quality cable like my Transparent Audio Ethernet cable. 

For now, I would quit worrying about SQ and focus on getting music playing through your system. Once music is playing then we can start looking at optimizing SQ.

[Superdad]

3 hours ago, Vangelis said:

I wasn’t planning on a second router unless it’s a buffer that would allow the Er to see the server on the network. 

 

Okay, I'm back and done with today's big shipping.  (Still have a couple of days worth of e-mails to return but that's always the case. Fridays are for catch-up--before the weekend's onslaught of more e-mail. )

 

Looking at and thinking again about your setup, and your mention that you are not a networking maven (me neither though I fake it well enough), I am going to guess that you have not logged into your TP-Link AC1200 wifi box and put it in Wireless Access Point mode, instead of Router mode.  If so, then that is most likely the source of your trouble. 

For most all home LANs you generally want to have just one box handing out IP addresses.  Otherwise you end up with connected devices (wired or wireless) on separate sub-nets. So for example, instead of all your computers, wireless devices, etc. having addresses such as 192.168.1.xxx --with only the last digits different for each--you'll end up with some as 192.168.1.xxx and some with 192.168.8.xxx or even more different.

And if your Innous ends up on a different sub-net than whatever device (iPad, laptop, etc.) you are trying to use for control, then they are not going to be able to see each other.  And possibly your Innous is not even getting a network connection back through to the outside world via your house modem.

 

So before we walk you through with further tests to try with connections to your EtherREGEN, please sort out the above.

As indicated, there are plenty of Innous/EtherREGEN owners, and it is exceptionally rare (3 out of 1,500) for an EtherREGEN to actually be faulty. We test the heck out of them before they leave.

Thanks--and don't despair!

--Alex C.

 

[octaviars]

6 hours ago, Vangelis said:

I bit confused, If the modem is plugged into the WiFi router and then the WiFi router is plugged into the ER, then actually the modem will not be plugged directly into the ER, correct?  Keeping in mind this would not work but, If the Wi-Fi router and the modem could both be plugged into the ER separately, wouldn’t that be less noisy?

 

As the modem provides a WAN (wide area network) connection from your ISP you need to have the router with firewall and DHCP first in the chain so you get your LAN (local area network). 

 

If you get more noise I cant say that but unless you get it to work first I dont see the point of being concerned about that right now.

 

[R1200CL]

10 hours ago, Vangelis said:

Sorry quick draft, crude drawing.

 

Make sure your modem is a modem and not a router. If a router, you must set it in bridge mode.

If you like to keep your modem as a router, you need to put TP link in Access mode. (Or bridge). 
 

This is how you must wire. (TP link as router). 
Use wan port on TP link from modem. Blue I think.
 

Your router IP is 192.168.0.1. Type that number in your browser. User and PW are both admin. 
 

https://static.tp-link.com/res/down/doc/Archer_C1200(US)_V1_UG.pdf

 

 

(You may also use the opportunity to upgrade firmware your TP-link)😀

[Vangelis]

11 hours ago, R1200CL said:

 

Make sure your modem is a modem and not a router. If a router, you must set it in bridge mode.

If you like to keep your modem as a router, you need to put TP link in Access mode. (Or bridge). 
 

This is how you must wire. (TP link as router). 
Use wan port on TP link from modem. Blue I think.
 

Your router IP is 192.168.0.1. Type that number in your browser. User and PW are both admin. 
 

https://static.tp-link.com/res/down/doc/Archer_C1200(US)_V1_UG.pdf

 

 

(You may also use the opportunity to upgrade firmware your TP-link)😀

I am up and running. Thanks guys. Not sure if this is the best configuration but I will be experimenting. 
 I think my cable providers box is a modem, it has one 75 ohm coax input and only one Ethernet output. If it was a router wouldn’t have multiple Lan outputs?  So I am cabled up in series modem> 2ft Ethernet cable >WiFi wire router>2ft Ethernet>Er>20ft Ethernet cable to server/end point. 

I’m  a little confused about if changing my TP-Link AC1200 wifi box configuration to a Wireless Access Point mode, instead of Router mode, this will allow it and the modem to be both connected directly into the ER instead of running in series? Maybe Superdad suggestion of changing the mode would end an IP conflict with one address. 

A number of people think the Ethernet cable going to the Er should be shortest.  Perhaps this is comparable to power cords, where we have miles of connections transformers circuit panels etc, but the last 3 feet is the most important. I will try going out of my modem with the 20 foot cable and bring in the big ugly WiFi router into the Audio room and put the short run into the Er. This would have to be a pretty substantial improvement to keep Big Ugly in the Audio room. Thanks for all the help.

[ericuco]

20 minutes ago, Vangelis said:

I am up and running. Thanks guys. Not sure if this is the best configuration but I will be experimenting. 
 I think my cable providers box is a modem, it has one 75 ohm coax input and only one Ethernet output. If it was a router wouldn’t have multiple Lan outputs?  So I am cabled up in series modem> 2ft Ethernet cable >WiFi wire router>2ft Ethernet>Er>20ft Ethernet cable to server/end point. 

I’m  a little confused about if changing my TP-Link AC1200 wifi box configuration to a Wireless Access Point mode, instead of Router mode, this will allow it and the modem to be both connected directly into the ER instead of running in series? Maybe Superdad suggestion of changing the mode would end an IP conflict with one address. 

A number of people think the Ethernet cable going to the Er should be shortest.  Perhaps this is comparable to power cords, where we have miles of connections transformers circuit panels etc, but the last 3 feet is the most important. I will try going out of my modem with the 20 foot cable and bring in the big ugly WiFi router into the Audio room and put the short run into the Er. This would have to be a pretty substantial improvement to keep Big Ugly in the Audio room. Thanks for all the help.

If everything is working, I wouldn’t change anything.
 

Personally, I would keep the AC-1200 as far away from your music room as possible. It is inherently an electrically noisy component in that it is transmitting WiFi signal. All total you have same length of cable so the placement of the AC-1200 shouldn’t matter much. Keeping the ER close to your Innous with short cable I can see as being beneficial. The ER mote should clean up any upstream noise.

[MartinT]

I would say the cable leaving the ER is the most important, since you don't want to undo the good work by adding noise and jitter back in. Mine is 12cm long.

[jcn3]

1 hour ago, Vangelis said:

I’m  a little confused about if changing my TP-Link AC1200 wifi box configuration to a Wireless Access Point mode, instead of Router mode, this will allow it and the modem to be both connected directly into the ER instead of running in series? Maybe Superdad suggestion of changing the mode would end an IP conflict with one address. 

 

 

you do NOT want to change the AC1200 to WAP mode -- you must have a router and its the only thing you have that performs that function.

 

the modem as you figured out is not a router, so that's why things didn't work previously.  you always must go in series from modem to router and then use the ports on the router to connect other devices.

[kzs70]

Hello,

I have tried some new configurations with my network but they do not work for some reason, and I can’t figure it out why.

I have a new Lumin X1 and I would like use its SFP port. But I did not want to reverse the ER before the Lumin as I plan to connect other devices to the ER A side as well, like a Roon core NUC and a video media player too. I have read in the manual that in case of feeding the ER from the B side there should not be anything else on the A side just the Endpoint/DAC, in my case the Lumin X1. So I have tried some other configurations:

1. ER is A->B

Ethernet network ->TP-Link Media converter to Fibre -> SFP on ER A side -> ER B side -> Cat8 to Sonore OM -> Fibre to Lumin X1

This does not work, unless I connect the OM Ethernet to the ER A side as well, and nothing connected to the B side.

2. ER is reversed (B->A)

Ethernet network ->TP-Link Media converter to Fibre -> SFP on Sonore OM -> Cat8 to ER B side -> ER A side -> Fibre to Lumin X1

This does not work neither, unless I connect the OM Ethernet to the ER A side as well, same like above.

I have 2 different pairs of SFP transceiver modules, but I always connect the same types with each other, they both work. The “problem” only occurs when both OM and ER are in the chain and something is connected to the B-side...

[R1200CL]

44 minutes ago, kzs70 said:

Hello,

 

I have tried some new configurations with my network but they do not work for some reason, and I can’t figure it out why.

 

I have a new Lumin X1 and I would like use its SFP port. But I did not want to reverse the ER before the Lumin as I plan to connect other devices to the ER A side as well, like a Roon core NUC and a video media player too. I have read in the manual that in case of feeding the ER from the B side there should not be anything else on the A side just the Endpoint/DAC, in my case the Lumin X1. So I have tried some other configurations:

 

1. ER is A->B

 

Ethernet network ->TP-Link Media converter to Fibre -> SFP on ER A side -> ER B side -> Cat8 to Sonore OM -> Fibre to Lumin X1

 

This does not work, unless I connect the OM Ethernet to the ER A side as well, and nothing connected to the B side.

 

2. ER is reversed (B->A)

 

Ethernet network ->TP-Link Media converter to Fibre -> SFP on Sonore OM -> Cat8 to ER B side -> ER A side -> Fibre to Lumin X1

 

This does not work neither, unless I connect the OM Ethernet to the ER A side as well, same like above.

 

I have 2 different pairs of SFP transceiver modules, but I always connect the same types with each other, they both work. The “problem” only occurs when both OM and ER are in the chain and something is connected to the B-side...

 

The reason is that opticalModule won’t work with 100Mhz. You can search this tread or the OM tread. I think it has been asked several times. (I’m not 100 % I’m correct, so search). Also check sonore site. 

[Vangelis]

2 hours ago, ericuco said:

If everything is working, I wouldn’t change anything.
 

Personally, I would keep the AC-1200 as far away from your music room as possible. It is inherently an electrically noisy component in that it is transmitting WiFi signal. All total you have same length of cable so the placement of the AC-1200 shouldn’t matter much. Keeping the ER close to your Innous with short cable I can see as being beneficial. The ER mote should clean up any upstream noise.

I have to think the problems I encountered here are pretty common as everyone has a Wi-Fi router on their network. I know that the Big Ugly WiFi router is an evil RF and microwave producer that also pollutes AC grounds. I really would not want to bring it into my room. Unfortunately that’s the switch that just prior in the path to the Er. The folks at Transparent Audio claim their top Ethernet cable no sonic degradation under 100 feet. Taking into account, all the various and compromises, I may have to live with my 20 foot run.  It would  be imtersting to hear from someone who has tried short and long versions of the same ethernet cable into the Er.

Granted I understand how noise generated on the network can influence music being streamed off from music sites. What I don’t understand is, why the Er can improve the sound of music played off server drives not on the network. If we are playing music off our internal drives, not off the network, then we should not gain benefit from an ER unless just the presence of the ethernet cable plugged into the chassis is crashing the party. Music coming off the ss drives (not on network) and then out to USB outputs to your DAC should not be subject to noise off the network, what am I missing. If noise coming off the ethernet line and into a streamer creates the so -called ground pollution, just unplug your Ethernet cable from your server temporarily. Not sure my server would still function without the Ethernet cable plugged in, but if it would, I would think simply unplugging  the ethernet cable while music is playing, should reveal exactly the noise generated by the network.  Obviously this wouldnt be practical because you wouldn’t be able to control your music without the GUI interface on the network but it might tell us how much network noise is generated, at least for one song. I have to try this

[kzs70]

11 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

The reason is that opticalModule won’t work with 100Mhz. You can search this tread or the OM tread. I think it has been asked several times. (I’m not 100 % I’m correct, so search). Also check sonore site. 

 

Thanks, I have found it, the OM seems to be only 1Gbit compatible, so does not work with ER's 100Mbit port on the B side...

[Vangelis]

On 7/9/2020 at 6:44 PM, David A said:

 

So if I'm reading things correctly, you have the ER in the room with the modem and the router.

 

You could try going modem to router to wall point in that room and then in your audio room going wall point to ER to Innuos so you actually have a short cable between the ER and the Innuos. That may, or may not, give a better result but I think it's worth a try.

 

OK I made a few changes, first, I added a switch between my wireless Wi-Fi router and the Er in my mechanical room, darned, if I didn’t hear a clear difference adding it in path to the ER. Next, taking your recommendation, I unwired everything and moved the switch into the main Audio room on the 20 ft Ethernet cable that used to go from the ER to the streamer/server. Both the switch and the ER are now moved the audio room.  I no longer have a 20 foot cable coming out of the ER from the next room. So now it’s: Modem>2 ft Ethernet cable>WiFi wireless router> 20 ft ethernet cable>switch> 2 ft ethernet cable>Er>1 ft Ethernet cable> Streamer/server. The combination of the 1 foot cable instead of a 20 foot cable going out the ER plus a switch in the path is mind blowing. Now I‘m stuck with more spaghetti in my Audio room. These wiring configuration changes should not make this big of a difference.

I hate this hobby!
 

[kennyb123]

2 minutes ago, Vangelis said:

So now it’s: Modem>2 ft Ethernet cable>WiFi wireless router> 20 ft ethernet cable>switch> 2 ft ethernet cable>Er>1 ft Ethernet cable> Streamer/server. The combination of the 1 foot cable instead of a 20 foot cable going out the ER plus a switch in the path is mind blowing.
 

Glad that worked out for you!  My recommendation would be that you swap that 20 ft cable with fiber, if possible. In other words:

 

Modem>2 ft Ethernet cable>WiFi wireless router> 1 ft ethernet cable> opticalModule > 18 ft fiber >Er>1 ft Ethernet cable> Streamer/server

[Vangelis]

I previously tried an optical conversion and was not happy with sound, it was just too flat. Some people of experience the same thing others get a benefit from optical.  

What I still can’t understand Is, when we are playing music from or SS Zenith drives it’s out via USB to our DACs, this music is not on the network, so why do I hear a improvement by getting noise out of my network? 

[kennyb123]

1 hour ago, Vangelis said:

What I still can’t understand Is, when we are playing music from or SS Zenith drives it’s out via USB to our DACs, this music is not on the network, so why do I hear a improvement by getting noise out of my network? 

 
First off, like anything, there are good optical implementations and bad ones.  OM + ER with Finisar SFPs is in a different league.

 

I tried an experiment recently where I plugged my OM into a smart plug so I could “unplug” my network while a song was playing.  With a song playing, powering off my network made it seem as if the volume got lower.  Powering it back on, the volume seemed to increase slightly, but it was the return of a hard edge that fiber was unable to totally eliminate.  Powering the network back off brought back a more natural sound. 

 

See if you can have someone unplug your Ethernet cable while you are listening.  My guess is that network activity causes a detrimental impact regardless of where the music is stored.