EtherREGEN: Installation, Usage, Difficulty, Questions thread

[jamesg11]

On 4/23/2020 at 7:14 AM, jamesg11 said:

Thanks Alex, I’ll try going into the wall (assuming this won’t effect the iso of the iso tran!).

No idea how the Elgar is wired ... other than it was worked on by a well-respected local audio engineer.

Now with Clipsal earth plug direct into wall - does power outlet actually need to be switched on to get an earth connect?

[One and a half]

21 minutes ago, jamesg11 said:

Now with Clipsal earth plug direct into wall - does power outlet actually need to be switched on to get an earth connect?

The earth is always connected regardless of the switch which 99% of cases switches the active or hot wire only. The other 1% is a double pole switch which  switches the neutral at the same time.

[Superdad]

24 minutes ago, jamesg11 said:

...does power outlet actually need to be switched on to get an earth connect?

Definitely not. Mains grounds are never switched. 

[hpfish]

My ER with stock PS runs hot, is it normal?   Will it be a concern if I need to leave it on all the time to drive my wifi router?

[David A]

24 minutes ago, hpfish said:

My ER with stock PS runs hot, is it normal?   Will it be a concern if I need to leave it on all the time to drive my wifi router?

 

Yes it's normal. It runs hot with any power supply. I've been running mine all the time with the stock PS for nearly 3 months now and it hasn't been an issue. 

[LowMidHigh]

Soliciting opinions from anyone knowledgeable:

 

A.

Is there any reason as why not to ground 2 ER’s to the same point?
(That is, wire each ER to the same ground point on a nearby wall).

 

B.

Is there a reason against grounding one ER to the other? (
That is, one ER is wired to the second ER's ground stub, and from there a wire goes to a ground point on the wall).

 

Thanks!

[kzs70]

Hello,

 

I have a question regarding my ER and Roon setput. I have been using the Etherregen for about 3 month now and I am very happy with it.

 

My current setup is quite typical I think:

 

IP Modem/Router -> Generic Cat5 cable -> Generic Switch -> Supra Cat8 Cable - > Etherregen A -> Etherregen B -> Supra Cat8 Cable - > Lumin U1 Mini with LPS -> Siltech USB -> Aesthetix DAC

 

I am using Roon and the core is installed on a Qnap NAS at the moment, connected to the generic Switch before the ER A side.

As my NAS is not powerful enough for the Roon I plan to build a dedicated PC for the Core.

 

The question: if this planned PC will be connected to the Switch before the ER-A, same as my NAS now, would it make any difference if it was an optimized "Audiophile" fanless PC with an LPS?

 

Or as it is "isolated" with the ER from my Lumin streamer it should not make too much difference whether is it's a silent or normal PC?

 

Thanks,

Zsolt

 

 

[Flashman]

18 minutes ago, kzs70 said:

Hello,

 

I have a question regarding my ER and Roon setput. I have been using the Etherregen for about 3 month now and I am very happy with it.

 

My current setup is quite typical I think:

 

IP Modem/Router -> Generic Cat5 cable -> Generic Switch -> Supra Cat8 Cable - > Etherregen A -> Etherregen B -> Supra Cat8 Cable - > Lumin U1 Mini with LPS -> Siltech USB -> Aesthetix DAC

 

I am using Roon and the core is installed on a Qnap NAS at the moment, connected to the generic Switch before the ER A side.

As my NAS is not powerful enough for the Roon I plan to build a dedicated PC for the Core.

 

The question: if this planned PC will be connected to the Switch before the ER-A, same as my NAS now, would it make any difference if it was an optimized "Audiophile" fanless PC with an LPS?

 

Or as it is "isolated" with the ER from my Lumin streamer it should not make too much difference whether is it's a silent or normal PC?

 

Thanks,

Zsolt

 

 

I am biased toward devices that eliminate as much noise or electrical disturbances as possible, especially when in close proximity to your other audio gear.  Thus, I purchased a Nucleus for my Roon Core.  By extension, if I were you, I would go for a fanless PC approach.  Further, an LPS would probably give you some gains.  My Nucleus is powered from a Keces P8 LPS, which also powers my eR and a Sonore opticalModule.

[kzs70]

2 hours ago, Flashman said:

I am biased toward devices that eliminate as much noise or electrical disturbances as possible, especially when in close proximity to your other audio gear.  Thus, I purchased a Nucleus for my Roon Core.  By extension, if I were you, I would go for a fanless PC approach.  Further, an LPS would probably give you some gains.  My Nucleus is powered from a Keces P8 LPS, which also powers my eR and a Sonore opticalModule.

 

Thanks for your advice, I am considering a Streacom FC10 fanless case with SSD's and an LPS.

I wonder would it give any benefit connecting it directly to the ER A-side?

In that case I would have to put it in the listening room, so fanless would be a must...

[mourip]

20 hours ago, kzs70 said:

 

Thanks for your advice, I am considering a Streacom FC10 fanless case with SSD's and an LPS.

I wonder would it give any benefit connecting it directly to the ER A-side?

In that case I would have to put it in the listening room, so fanless would be a must...

 

I am using a similar FC5 fanless case with internal SSDs and an HDPlex LPS for my Roon server. It has two DC inputs: 19v for the internal HDPlex converter and 5v to power the two SSDs: OS and music. The server is connected to my ER "B" side with a very short ethernet cable and then via the ER "A" side to a NUC. I also have one LAN cable connected to the "B" side and two video connections also. When I listen to music I disconnect the two video device ethernet cables because I found that they had a negative impact when listening to music.

 

All of my audio devices use LPS supplies except for my LTS Ultralinear amp which uses a very sophisticated David Berning designed SMPS. All audio devices share a simple power strip to minimize ground differences and this strip is connected to the wall through a large isolation transformer. 

 

I decided to keep all parts close together in order to be able to keep this grounding scheme. The only audible physical noise from the equipment is a bit of vibration from the isolation transformer but it is not heard at the listening position.

 

Music is very detailed with a very black background and great soundstage depth.

[str-1]

On 4/26/2020 at 7:20 AM, David A said:

 

Yes it's normal. It runs hot with any power supply. I've been running mine all the time with the stock PS for nearly 3 months now and it hasn't been an issue. 

Do different voltages within the accepted range of input voltages affect how hot things get?  Do they affect sound quality performance?

[kzs70]

2 hours ago, mourip said:

I am using a similar FC5 fanless case with internal SSDs and an HDPlex LPS for my Roon server. It has two DC inputs: 19v for the internal HDPlex converter and 5v to power the two SSDs: OS and music. The server is connected to my ER "B" side with a very short ethernet cable and then via the ER "A" side to a NUC. I also have one LAN cable connected to the "B" side and two video connections also.

Thanks for the recommendation, I am planning a very similar server to yours.

Do you use the 200W or the 400W HDPlex DC converter? If the SSD's are powered separetly the 200W might be enough for the rest?

 

And do you use the NUC or the servers as the Roond endpoint, or something else?

I connect my Lumin streamer (Roon endpoint) to the B side and everything else to the A, so the Roon server would be on the A side as well.

[Superdad]

2 hours ago, str-1 said:

Do different voltages within the accepted range of input voltages affect how hot things get?

No. Temps stay about the same regardless of input voltage within the EtherREGEN’s allowed 7~12V range.

 

2 hours ago, str-1 said:

Do they affect sound quality performance?

Due to the design of our power networks there should not be any performance difference with different input voltages. I have not seen any reports claiming there is, and I would take such with a “grain of salt.” 

(Different brand/type power supplies may be another story...)

[mourip]

52 minutes ago, kzs70 said:

Thanks for the recommendation, I am planning a very similar server to yours.

Do you use the 200W or the 400W HDPlex DC converter? If the SSD's are powered separetly the 200W might be enough for the rest?

 

And do you use the NUC or the servers as the Roond endpoint, or something else?

I connect my Lumin streamer (Roon endpoint) to the B side and everything else to the A, so the Roon server would be on the A side as well.

 

I have one HDPlex 200w LPS for the server that uses LT3045 regulators: 19v for the system board, one 5v for the two SSD's, and one 5v for the JCAT Femto NIC. My i3 system board is probably 3 years old and has a very low heat requirement so it probably is not pulling much from the 19v feed.

 

The NUC is my Roon endpoint. It is running AudioLinux in ramroot. No internal drive. The server is running Windows 2019 Server with Audiophile Optimizer v3 and the Roon Core as shell.

 

Click on "System" in my signature for details.

 

 

 

 

[kzs70]

8 minutes ago, mourip said:

Click on "System" in my signature for details.

 

Thanks again, very impressive system!

[yellowblue]

Will a PowerAdd battery + Idovr DXP-1A5DSC work well with the ER? I use the Idovr (with SBooster) with my MScaler and it is amazing.

[Blake]

Hi,

I have a Melco N1A/2 enroute.

I will of course experiment when it arrives, but in the meantime, which setup would theoretically be superior?

 

OPTION 1:

(wireless) Apple Airport Express > ethernet cable > (A) EtherRegen (B) > ethernet cable > Melco > ethernet cable > Denafrips DAC

 

or

 

OPTION 2:

(wireless) Apple Airport Express > ethernet cable > Melco > ethernet cable > (A) EtherRegen (B) > ethernet cable > Denafrips DAC

Note the Melco has a "purifier" between the two ethernet ports on the Melco, but I am thinking the EtherRegen is the more advanced solution, so Option 2 would be the better solution?

 

From Melco:

"Unlike PC based systems, Melco has a dedicated PLAYER port. This allows connection directly to the network Streamer or Player without any data switch in the signal path which would damage the music data.

 

This direct connection concept we call Direct Streaming Music – DSM – and it is unique to Melco as in conjunction with the Ethernet purifier between the LAN and PLAYER ports DSM ensures that the Player receives only clean and accurate data, all packets are timed with low-jitter precision and all unwanted traffic is blocked. LAN lights can be disabled for highest possible data integrity."

[octaviars]

6 minutes ago, Blake said:

OPTION 2:

 

(wireless) Apple Airport Express > ethernet cable > Melco > ethernet cable > (A) EtherRegen (B) > ethernet cable > Denafrips DAC

 

 

If I am not wrong the Denafrips RJ45 connections are for i2S signals so you cant use that connection going from the Melco to Denafrips as that is not a Network DAC that has to be USB.

 

Only place to put the etherREGEN is before the Melco on the network.

[Blake]

1 hour ago, octaviars said:

 

If I am not wrong the Denafrips RJ45 connections are for i2S signals so you cant use that connection going from the Melco to Denafrips as that is not a Network DAC that has to be USB.

 

Only place to put the etherREGEN is before the Melco on the network.

 

Yes, good catch!  Sorry, where I wrote "Denafrips DAC" in my options listed above, swap in "Sonore UltraRendu".   Need more coffee!

 

So, which of the following options, in theory, is preferable?

 

OPTION 1:

(wireless) Apple Airport Express > ethernet cable > (A) EtherRegen (B) > ethernet cable > Melco > ethernet cable > Sonore UltraRendu

 

or

 

OPTION 2:

(wireless) Apple Airport Express > ethernet cable > Melco > ethernet cable > (A) EtherRegen (B) > ethernet cable > Sonore UltraRendu

 

 

[Superdad]

24 minutes ago, Blake said:

So, which of the following options, in theory, is preferable?

OPTION 1:

(wireless) Apple Airport Express > ethernet cable > (A) EtherRegen (B) > ethernet cable > Melco > ethernet cable > Sonore UltraRendu

or

OPTION 2:

(wireless) Apple Airport Express > ethernet cable > Melco > ethernet cable > (A) EtherRegen (B) > ethernet cable > Sonore UltraRendu

 

I would say Option 2 --for sure having the EtherREGEN feed your ultraRendu from the 'B' port, but there is still a problem with the way you wrote it, which will cause problems for you.

What you want to do is

Option 3:

Apple Airport Express > ethernet cable > EtherREGEN 'A' port;

Melco N1A/2 > ethernet cable > another EtherREGEN 'A' port;

EtherREGEN 'B' port > ethernet cable > Sonore ultraRendu.

 

That will work and sound the best.

Cheers,

--Alex C.

 

 

[Blake]

17 hours ago, Superdad said:

 

I would say Option 2 --for sure having the EtherREGEN feed your ultraRendu from the 'B' port, but there is still a problem with the way you wrote it, which will cause problems for you.

What you want to do is

Option 3:

Apple Airport Express > ethernet cable > EtherREGEN 'A' port;

Melco N1A/2 > ethernet cable > another EtherREGEN 'A' port;

EtherREGEN 'B' port > ethernet cable > Sonore ultraRendu.

 

That will work and sound the best.

Cheers,

--Alex C.

 

 

 

Hi Alex,

 

One follow up point- the Melco N1A/2 has Network input and output ports (with the output having some sonic improvements implemented by Melco).

 

So, in order to take advantage of the sonic benefits of the Melco Network output, would the following work OK?

 

 Airport Express > Ethernet cable > Melco Network input > Melco Network output > ethernet cable > (A) EtherRegen (B) > ethernet cable > Sonore UltraRendu

 

 

[Superdad]

3 hours ago, Blake said:

One follow up point- the Melco N1A/2 has Network input and output ports (with the output having some sonic improvements implemented by Melco).

So, in order to take advantage of the sonic benefits of the Melco Network output, would the following work OK?

Airport Express > Ethernet cable > Melco Network input > Melco Network output > ethernet cable > (A) EtherRegen (B) > ethernet cable > Sonore UltraRendu

 

Hi Blake:

You can certainly try it that way but in general we discourage EtherREGEN owners from using "bridged" Ethernet ports in their servers as such can sometimes cause extra latency and hiccups (stuttering, dropouts, loss of connectivity) with some network audio software protocols (Roon RAAT, Signalyst NAA, DLNA, etc.).

 

[As an aside, despite Melco's vague description about their Ethernet ports, looking at high-res photos of the N1A Mk.2 motherboard just shows two ports with (naturally) separate magnetics--and separate PHYs (the larger of the two probably contains the Ethernet controller for both). And I am not too keen on how far away they put those PHYs from the magnetics. (Look in red rectangle at top of the below pic.) Still, I very much applaud whatever efforts they have made with the ports. ]

 

[Winbis]

I had a cable issue with EtherREGEN I installed yesterday.

 

I connected a shielded cable from the ER A side to my router. I used a smaller piece of shielded cable between the ER B port and my UltraRendu. Initially, this worked well for playing music via Roon.  After a brief period of time, it stopped working.

 

After trying different cables on both ports without success, I finally substituted non shielded cable between the EtherREGEN and my router. Everything has worked fine since I made this switch, even though the manual indicated that shielded cable would work fine to connect to the router as long as you didn't use shielded cable out of another A side port.  

 

I did a phone consult with Alex Crespi who confirmed that this cable change should not have made a difference.  However, since both non shielded and shielded cables can be used, I am glad I have the EtherREGEN working as expected.

 

I'm not sure why I had this issue  I use a good quality Netgear switch - shouldn't be an issue. 

I'm not going to  worry about it - just enjoy the music.

 

Appreciated the call from Alex Crespi.  It is nice to know that the failure rate for the EtherREGEN is

almost nonexistent.  

 

 

[feelingears]

5 hours ago, Winbis said:

After trying different cables on both ports without success, I finally substituted non shielded cable between the EtherREGEN and my router. Everything has worked fine since I made this switch, even though the manual indicated that shielded cable would work fine to connect to the router as long as you didn't use shielded cable out of another A side port.  

 

I did a phone consult with Alex Crespi who confirmed that this cable change should not have made a difference.

 

 

 

Thanks for reporting this because I'll be trying the ER shortly with a new component and will test that Swedish Supra CAT-8 cable that was all the rage a few years back as well as the inexpensive Cable Matters cable that Alex recommended somewhere here. I'll be sure to use shield-tied only on the B-side.  

[Superdad]

15 hours ago, Winbis said:

I did a phone consult with Alex Crespi who confirmed that this cable change should not have made a difference.  However, since both non shielded and shielded cables can be used, I am glad I have the EtherREGEN working as expected.

Hi Winthrop:

Welcome to the Audiophile Style forum, and thanks for posting. 

Yes, what you report is puzzling, and short of some sort of massive and somehow disruptive leakage current coming into the 'A' port on the shield of the cable from your router, we don't quite understand how/why that cable was causing a connectivity problem for you. But glad that you sorted it out and are playing well now.

 

15 hours ago, Winbis said:

I'm not going to  worry about it - just enjoy the music.

That's the spirit! 

 

15 hours ago, Winbis said:

Appreciated the call from Alex Crespi.

I generally prefer to handle thorny functionality support issues via phone.  E-mail (the lifeblood/bane of my daily existence) is efficient for many things, but not always for sorting out problems. Just too much back and forth and then something that might have been obvious pops up.

 

15 hours ago, Winbis said:

It is nice to know that the failure rate for the EtherREGEN is almost nonexistent.

Yes, only two field failures out of over 1,200 units so far. We did have a couple of dented SFP cages until we changed packing orientation of the unit in the box.