UpTone Audio EtherREGEN Listening Impressions

[scolley]

Apologies for the long post. Here goes...

 

My experiences are a bit unique in that I never listened to the EtherREGEN in its stock form. As soon as I got it I hooked it up, I placed one of these heatsinks on top. Waiting 90 minutes before my first listen, I was QUITE pleased with the initial sonic results.

 

After leaving it on and playing quietly for 24 hours, I permanently attached the heatsink with thermal epoxy.

After allowing the unit to quietly burn-in/warm up for a couple more hours, the next listen was a glorious improvement in sonics. Sound stage size, texture, detail and - most important - resolution of the sound-stage. Not to mention just being more “tuneful” and engaging. The improvement was very exciting. I have to underscore the conclusion of @austinpop. This is a bargain. A big one.

 

That said, I found the improvements to be heavily skewed toward high-res tracks. It helps Red Book content a lot, but the improvements in high-res content sonics are much more evident. I suspect the more you’ve invested in your system, the more you need this. One thing I wonder about is why the improvements were audible for me so quickly. Within 90 minutes it was really good. But it was huge after 24 hours. Was it the heatsink? Or were 90 minutes (initially) and 24 hours burn-in time sufficient? Or a combination of both? I wouldn’t know.

 

One thing is certain, I could not be more thrilled with the purchase. 🙂

 

PS - I will mention that based on my brief experiences, independent of obvious your-mileage-may-vary-on-your-network considerations, I would suggest that if you can normally clearly hear the difference between high-res tracks and 44.1/16, then this is a slam dunk. If you can’t though, this may be a tweak that your system may not resolve quite so well.

 

PPS - I hear FAR far greater differences over my speakers than my headphones.  My cans are Oppo PM-3’s with stock cable, amplified by a Mytek Brooklyn Bridge. But that difference may well be due to having invested much, much more in my speakers and speaker amplification, which could be a bit of evidence backing up my conclusions above: the better your system resolves sonics, the better improvements the EtherREGEN can bring.

[Discopants]

@scolley I did not notice the high res correlation on my system , I listen to lots of Spotify and you tube on my system and all media sees the same uptick in SQ. I also have qobuz for high res.

 

My dac (Lyngdorf TDAI3400) upsamples/downsamples every thing to 24 biz 96khz , I can hear marginal improvement on some material at high res but it's a narrow delta for me way way  less that the improvement the Etherregen brings and way way less than a better power supply to the Etherregen brings too.

 

I heard the potential straight out of the box with better detail , better dynamics and better bass but 24 hours in a layer if harshness is gone and I think it continues to improve over a few more days. I would say mine was burnt in fully after about 5 days. Music is much more natural sounding after 5 days.

 

Enjoy your new toy.

 

[scolley]

23 minutes ago, Discopants said:

I did not notice the high res correlation on my system...

 

My dac (Lyngdorf TDAI3400) upsamples/downsamples every thing to 24 biz 96khz ,

I'm not going to suggest - for a moment - that I'm correct. I'm just a sample of one, which has no real meaning. But if I am right, maybe your upsampling is the reason you don't hear much of a difference between high and redbook-res. Thoughts?

[JamesBardsley]

1 hour ago, scolley said:

One thing is certain, I could not be more thrilled with the purchase. 🙂

 

PS - I will mention that based on my brief experiences, independent of obvious your-mileage-may-vary-on-your-network considerations, I would suggest that if you can normally clearly hear the difference between high-res tracks and 44.1/16, then this is a slam dunk. If you can’t though, this may be a tweak that your system may not resolve quite so well.

 

PPS - I hear FAR far greater differences over my speakers than my headphones.  My cans are Oppo PM-3’s with stock cable, amplified by a Mytek Brooklyn Bridge. But that difference may well be due to having invested much, much more in my speakers and speaker amplification, which could be a bit of evidence backing up my conclusions above: the better your system resolves sonics, the better improvements the EtherREGEN can bring.

What is your speaker based system?

[scolley]

21 minutes ago, JamesBardsley said:

What is your speaker based system?

Nothing that special in the high end audio world these days, but better than my cans...

 

The DAC is the same Mytek Brooklyn Bridge (powered by a JS-2), connected to a pair of PS Audio M700 monoblock amps by Nordost Heimdall 2 interconnects. Speaker cables are Silversmith Audio Fideliums (the best kept secret in hifi now, IMO) connected to Goldenear Triton One.R speakers. All powered by a PS Audio Stellar Power Plant 3 AC regenerator, with either Nordost Hemdall 2 or Wireworld Electra 7 AC power cords. And all of that on generally very inexpensive vibration isolation kit from Herbie's Audio Lab.

 

I like the Oppo PM-3's. But they don't hold a candle to the sound coming out of the speakers. Especially now. 🙂

[JamesBardsley]

Nice system - must be very revealing of the audio data.

I can see why hires would sound better than 16/44 on that.

 

Your theory that being clearly able to distinguish hires from CD res is a good proxy for deciding whether to get an ER seems spot on to me.

It is entirely in line with what I've noticed among those members on the various threads about the ER (and the English Electric switch) on the Naim forum, which is where I mainly hang out.

 

Sorry if you said it above, but what do you use as a psu for your ER?

[scolley]

6 minutes ago, JamesBardsley said:

Your theory that being clearly able to distinguish hires from CD res is a good proxy for deciding whether to get an ER seems spot on to me.

Thank you. 🙂

 

7 minutes ago, JamesBardsley said:

Sorry if you said it above, but what do you use as a psu for your ER?

I didn't mention it as I'm just using the stock PS. I COULD use the 2nd line of my JS-2, but as I understand it from @Superdad, I'd have to reverse the A and B sides (no big deal there), since it's also powering the DAC, BUT I also could not have anything else on the A side. And that's a problem as I'm plugging my Roon ROCK (Intel NUC) into the EtherRegen also. So all the goodness I heard was just with the stock PS.

[JamesBardsley]

Interesting.

Why not get an 8 port Cisco 2960?

These are very high quality telecoms switches that cost hundreds new but can be bought for about £50 on Ebay or say from a reseller like ECProf.

(I worked for BT for a decade.)

This would provide more ports on your network for Roon, AV stuff etc. and also take traffic away from your streamer/dac.

 

Also, most users report that the big SQ uplift comes when they add the psu.

 

The (Sean Jacobs) Custom HiFi Cables DC3 is used with 1 and 2 ERs by several members of the Naim forum with very revealing systems.

 

Anyway, it seems sensible to give the ER a try with a better quality psu.

[MartinT]

4 hours ago, Discopants said:

@scolley I did not notice the high res correlation on my system , I listen to lots of Spotify and you tube on my system and all media sees the same uptick in SQ. I also have qobuz for high res.

 

I also hear an across-the-board uplift in performance from standard 16/44 material right up to 24/192 on Qobuz.  I'm using two reclockers and the rhythmic timing and detail in music is incredible.

[scolley]

17 hours ago, JamesBardsley said:

Anyway, it seems sensible to give the ER a try with a better quality psu.

Thanks for the suggestion on the switch. But my EtherREGEN has replaced a switch recommended by John Swenson. It's idle now, so I could use that. But I was not so quick to do so, due to the following comment I copy/pasted from the UpTone Audio EtherREGEN page.

 

"While high-quality power supplies make a nice difference most everywhere else in a music system, we personally are not hearing very much change with power supplies and the EtherREGEN (certainly owing to its great isolation and internal power networks)."

 

If you add to that the comment from Hans Beekhuyzen that in his experience (as I recall) the up-tick in performance by upgrading the PSU on an ER was only marginal, I'm a bit skeptical about any claims of significant improvement. Though after my ears have become fully accustomed to this new sound, I will give it a shot. Nothing to lose. But my ears are going to have to acclimate to this new sonic goodness first.

 

15 hours ago, MartinT said:

I also hear an across-the-board uplift in performance from standard 16/44 material right up to 24/192 on Qobuz

I'm sure. Other people's mileage is going to vary. I assume by "across the board" you mean an equal uplift? Otherwise, I'd say I have an across the board improvement too: everything's better. But the improvement to hi-res is more.

 

Looking at your gear has me wondering if maybe this is another metric? You've got me beat on the gear side, so I wonder if my experience of a larger improvement in hi-res would go away with better gear. Hmm...

 

Thanks for sharing.

[MartinT]

I would almost say it's in reverse with 16/44 benefitting the most. Yes, 24/192 sounds awesome but actually red book material can sound almost as awesome.

[scolley]

21 minutes ago, MartinT said:

I would almost say it's in reverse with 16/44 benefitting the most.

That's very interesting. I wonder why we are having the opposite observations? I'm guessing that in my particular setup, I was previously being getting short changed on some of the detail on high-res content (though it always did sound much better than 44.1/16), and now it's being revealed in a form much closer to its real potential.

 

And with that, I might conclude. Don't want to take this thread too OT. 😉

 

[JamesBardsley]

Yes, I saw that note on the Uptone site.

(I tend to take such statements with a pinch of salt, as not many manufacturers are likely to say that their new gizmo really needs the addition of a LPS that costs more than the item itself to make it really sing. This would put off lots of potential buyers - many of whom do in the end buy an excellent LPS.)

 

Yes, I also saw Hans say that in his video on the ER as it beat his other cheaper and more expensive switches. That was his finding with his ears and his taste in music and his system in his (odd-shaped) listening room. But many users on the Naim forum and elsewhere are excited about the uplift from adding a posh LPS to their ER.

 

But then you're 100% right to relax and get into the music.

 

Premature optimisation can divert us from just 'lodging on a plateau' and floating downstream with the sounds as they are.

[soares]

11 hours ago, scolley said:

If you add to that the comment from Hans Beekhuyzen that in his experience (as I recall) the up-tick in performance by upgrading the PSU on an ER was only marginal, I'm a bit skeptical about any claims of significant improvement. Though after my ears have become fully accustomed to this new sound, I will give it a shot. Nothing to lose. But my ears are going to have to acclimate to this new sonic goodness first.

I tried the Sbooster 12 v with the Sbooster  ultra and you could definitely hear a better SQ. Probably not enough to justify the price. They are feeding my Buffalo 2016 modded. I use a 10gtek fiber with it. It’s a notable improvement with the extraordinary eR. Tomorrow my Farad willl arrive and I am looking forward for a significant improvement. Let’s see... 😊

[ppilihp]

I recently replaced the standard SPS of the ER with a Farad Super3 (with all the upgrades incl. cable). I was not expecting anything (the Farad was meant to drive a Matrix SPDIF-2) but the difference in SQ was substantial. I have no idea, if it’s the ER by itself or that I eliminated a switching PS from the system that effected the whole power chain. Whatever, I can only highly recommend the Farad for the ER.

End of the story: I had to order a second Farad. It replaced an Sbooster/Ultra (for the Matrix). That replacement also makes a difference, but actually a smaller one. 

[JamesBardsley]

That's a fortuitous experiment.

Great that you got such a good result.

 

There's a chap on the Naim Forum called French Rooster who tried a Farad on his ER, but he didn't like everything about what it did to the SQ.

So he ended up returning it and getting an MCRU psu.

 

But each person's system and tastes and room are different, so it about what works in each system.

[RDOK]

Indeed a good LPS does really enhance the results with the ER, that is also my experience.

I tried a Farad Super3, Paul Hynes SR4 and SR4T and liked them in that order.

Currently I use the SR4 on the ER as the SR4T is in use feeding an IsoRegen. Overall that gave the best result in my system and to my ears.

 

[Johnnydev]

43 minutes ago, RDOK said:

Een goede LPS verbetert inderdaad echt de resultaten met de ER, dat is ook mijn ervaring.

Ik heb een Farad Super3, Paul Hynes SR4 en SR4T geprobeerd en vond ze in die volgorde leuk.

Momenteel gebruik ik de SR4 op de ER omdat de SR4T in gebruik is om een IsoRegen te voeden. Over het algemeen gaf dat het beste resultaat in mijn systeem en in mijn oren.

 

Bedankt voor uw bericht

 

zou u alstublieft het verschil tussen de Farad en de SR4T op de ErherRegen  kunnen/willen aangeven?

[RDOK]

The Farad is already very good when powering an ER.

But compared to the SR4(T) the Farad seemed a little more veiled or muddled, a little less open.

The SR4(T) was a somewhat more engaging and natural sounding.

The SR4T is a small but noticeable step better than the SR4 in this respect.

On the ER the input is optical (Planet MGB-TLS SFP) and output a Sablon pre-2020 ethernet cable, both on the A side. That sounds best to my ears.

[JFHSQT]

I just posted a quick early impressions review on the Naim forum but I will repost here as well...

 

I am 48 hours into adding the etherRegen into my system, which is a Uniti Nova… I have the eR switch with my Orbi mesh satellite and Innuos Zen MK III and Apple TV 4K running into the “A” side with the “B” side running into the Nova via a WireWorld Starlight 8 ethernet cable. I am using the stock PSU so no additional upgrades at this time.

 

I definitely noticed an immediate change in the sound with the Nova - I would say the impact was very close to moving from one good DAC to another slightly better DAC; there is audibly more space in the mix, with a slightly larger soundstage and to my surprise a higher soundstage - cymbal hits, percussion effects etc seem to come from a higher sound plane than before.

 

At first it seemed as though it tamed the bass somewhat. I have excellent bass currently from my Nova and Volti Rival speakers… integrating the eR sounded like it reined in the bass somewhat. However it actually just tightened and focused the bass - the depth/range of the bass is still there, when playing lower sub-bass tracks.

 

The biggest shocker was that I had “Billie Jean” in my queue (a DSD file) and I was busy reading my iPad or something… but when that song kicked in with the sudden kick drum/snare intro and then the stereo “ch, ch, ch” effect coming through both speakers it nearly knocked me out of my chair. It was more powerful and larger and hit harder than I had ever heard before.

 

I’m still on the fence about investing in other LPS and external clocks, as those become very expensive tweaks very quickly, and it seems like I’d be better off spending thousands on upgrading the Nova itself rather than all the extra boxes trying to get a cleaner signal into the streamer.

 

I know it has only been about 48 hours so far, so I'm prepared for some more settling in over the next month. At first the sound of the eR did sound a little excited and maybe even a touch more strident. What I love about the Naim sound is not the deep magnifying glass on individual detail but the sound and pacing of the music overall, and it seemed like the eR put a bit of a magnifying glass on some of the details, particularly with regard to reverb and delay effects, etc. However that hasn't been a distraction and it seems like it has been integrating well over the past 2 nights. 

 

[Johnnydev]

On 9/2/2020 at 2:49 AM, RDOK said:

The Farad is already very good when powering an ER.

But compared to the SR4(T) the Farad seemed a little more veiled or muddled, a little less open.

The SR4(T) was a somewhat more engaging and natural sounding.

The SR4T is a small but noticeable step better than the SR4 in this respect.

On the ER the input is optical (Planet MGB-TLS SFP) and output a Sablon pre-2020 ethernet cable, both on the A side. That sounds best to my ears.

Thanks for your reply,i can use this. This is in line with the review by @austinpop in his comparison between the Farad super 3 and the Paul Hynes SR4

[Mikey26]

Any recommendations to mitigate incoming noise from the Coax RF cable that goes into the cable modem? I’ve tried a RF cable isolator and is has helped. My question is are there better RF isolators? Can you use multiples in a chain for further improvement? My goal is to lower the incoming noise as much as possible from the coax RF cable from the cable company.

[JohnSwenson]

1 hour ago, Mikey26 said:

Any recommendations to mitigate incoming noise from the Coax RF cable that goes into the cable modem? I’ve tried a RF cable isolator and is has helped. My question is are there better RF isolators? Can you use multiples in a chain for further improvement? My goal is to lower the incoming noise as much as possible from the coax RF cable from the cable company.

This isolator you have is NOT an RF noise filter (if it was an RF filter you wouldn't get any signal, since the signal IS RF). These devices are a broadband transformer that lets the RF through, BUT blocks ground noise which can get developed over the miles of cable on the pole or underground.

 

If your cable modem doesn't have one of these builtin (some do) then the massive ground current from the cable can get into your system.

 

There is no "better filter" since what you have already blocks the ground current about as good as it can be done. The only issue is if the transformer is fully passing the RF frequency range used by the cable modem. Most of these were designed for TV and FM radio and may not fully pass the frequencies used by the cable modem. I don't know if the one you have fully does or not. If it works, it probably does!

 

John S.

[PYP]

17 minutes ago, JohnSwenson said:

There is no "better filter" since what you have already blocks the ground current about as good as it can be done. The only issue is if the transformer is fully passing the RF frequency range used by the cable modem. Most of these were designed for TV and FM radio and may not fully pass the frequencies used by the cable modem. I don't know if the one you have fully does or not. If it works, it probably does!

 

John S.

 

Some of the reviews on Amazon indicate that it doesn't work for everyone and that it may block everything or premium channels (or require a re-boot when the cable company updates the box's software - so works but is inconvenient).  The reviews also mention it doesn't work with a satellite receiver.  

[Mikey26]

Thanks for that clarification John. For me it works fully and it clearly makes a difference along with Etherregen in the chain. I can see how a bad ground can mess with everything and the isolator takes care of the issue. I have Spectrum internet. Did a speed test and it is the same or better now. Picture quality of streaming video improved as well. This is the isolator (link below). The great part of this adapter design is you don’t need an extra coax cable.

 

 TII 220 Ground Loop Isolator for Cable TV applications https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0070Q6URO/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_KnFuFb8BPSEK4