UpTone Audio EtherREGEN Listening Impressions

[emailists]

I recently tried the EtherRegen in a second system that is much less elaborate than my main rig, which is TAD CR1/Atmosphere tube pre/BHK300/PS audio DS.  
 

The modest system I set up while away from home is a Hegel H190 and LSA 10 Statement speakers, plugged into an old Furman reference 15.  
 

I’m streaming Qobuz using Bubbleupnp on a MacBook Pro and setting Bubble to convert to WAV, which sounds better than flac.  
 

In my home system I found plugging the etherRegen into my Niagara 7000 power conditioner improved the sound, so i used the smaller system’s Furman to power the ER without doing any testing. 
 

Even in the much simpler system, the ER performs miracles.  I found the system to be a bit fatiguing to listen to, but with the ER what I’m hearing is a more natural reproduction of instruments, and what I like to call a “creamy” analog type sound.  
 

Two vastly different systems in two different states (one city and one suburban) show the same results; the EtherRegen is an essential part of a satisfying ethernet playback.  Looks like I’ll be bringing the unit back and forth, unless I end up trying 2 in series. 

[Discopants]

1 hour ago, emailists said:

 

 

Have you tried Running Bubble on a real computer?  I found it sounds better on my Mac than Mconnect from my phone.  I also set Bubbleupnp to decode to WAV which sounds better than sending my Hegel flac.  

 

No I only have ipads and a Samsung phone, also my Lyngdorf has the uPNP renderer built in  and it converts everything to PWM anyway . If your phone is apple  I was told Mcconnect actually streams through the phone to the renderer and this is limiting on delivering hi resolution audio formats. 

 

 

[JHG]

21 hours ago, Discopants said:

 

No I only have ipads and a Samsung phone, also my Lyngdorf has the uPNP renderer built in  and it converts everything to PWM anyway . If your phone is apple  I was told Mcconnect actually streams through the phone to the renderer and this is limiting on delivering hi resolution audio formats. 

 

 

I use my iPad and mconnectplayer HD to stream from my local server and Qobuz to my microRendu.  Is the app actually streaming the files through the iPad?

[JamesBardsley]

Yes, I have used MConnectHD for a few months to stream Tidal and Qobuz to my Naim 272 streamer/DAc/preamp via 2 Cisco Catalyst 2960 switches connected by Power-over-Ethernet (PoE reduces EM noise entering the streamer).

 

The files are actually transferred via WiFi from my router to the iPad into the MConnect app, then back to the ISP router, then onwards via ethernet cables.

 

You can test this by swtiching off the iPad and the sound dies.

 

I've now switched back to the Naim app which sounds better.

 

You don't get hires by using the MConnect app that way - the maker of the app (Conversdigital) confirmed that to me in an email.

[Discopants]

I was told the same as James by a hifi dealer. When I streamed Qobuz to my Lyngdorf from my iPad with Mconnect HD sound quality was comparable to spotify connect, a few tracks I could hear a very marginal improvement. 

 

Now with Qobuz streams with bubble upnp via android phone i can hear more with hi rez vs spotify. Spotify still sounds great as does you tube but there is a clear difference with 24bit 96k vs spotify on many many tracks (It's hard to know you have the same master admittedly but most material is more detailed).

 

Digital streaming is a complicated beast.

[MikeyFresh]

6 hours ago, JamesBardsley said:

You don't get hires by using the MConnect app that way - the maker of the app (Conversdigital) confirmed that to me in an email.

This is simply not the case with mconnect on Android, I can stream Qobuz hi-rez tracks including 24/192 from a Samsung Tab A to either a Sonore microRendu or a Raspberry Pi running Moode UPnP and everything is played back at the native sample rate, as indicated by the DAC itself.

 

Please note, I'm not trying to argue, nor state that the stream doesn't flow through the device and if that device is put to sleep the music won't stop, it might depending on buffer settings and if the device is literally put to sleep.

 

On an Android device if the Settings are such that only the display itself is put to sleep but the device remains awake and running, then the music continues, though the penalty of course is heavier use of the device's battery.

 

However the notion that you can't then get hi-rez files to playback properly with no downsampling is false, I don't know why they told you that, perhaps they were confused or misunderstood and thought you meant if played back on the iOS/Android device itself.

 

You can prove this to yourself if you have a DAC with a sample rate indicator, it will show the files are being played back at their native sample rates.

 

I can even do that on an ancient iPad 2, Qobuz hi-rez files are played back at the native sample rate as rendered by a Sonore microRendu in that case to a SIMAUDIO Moon DAC that has a sample rate indicator. That iPad 2 reached EOL at iOS 9.3, yet still it works just fine with Qobuz over mconnect played back at the track's native sample rates.

 

5 hours ago, Discopants said:

I was told the same as James by a hifi dealer.

Trust me guys, this is misinformation you were given, and you can prove it to yourself by testing on a DAC with a sample rate indicator, all of the tracks including Qobuz hi-rez will playback at their native sample rates.

 

Both the HiFi dealer and whomever replied from ConverseDigital were probably confused by the question itself, and thought you were referring to using the device itself as a renderer, and that of course involves downsampling unless a DAC is connected to the device via OTG (Android) or CCK (iOS).

[JamesBardsley]

Hi Mikey

i was not trying to claim that MConnectHD can only play 16/44.

it can in fact play hi res files.
your use cases prove that

when I use MConnectHD the app itself states the correct bit depth and sample rate for the file

 but as mentioned I am playing the files into a Naim 272 streamer 

Naim dacs do not decode MQA so when you play any MQA tracks from Tidal using any streaming gear Tidal just sends the 16/44 equivalent 
 

In that case the Naim box does not state a sample rate

so how the app works with each dac and signal chain varies 

Jim

[JamesBardsley]

By the way the difference between using the Naim app vs using MConnectHD in my system is very small.

 

they both sound very good

 

i often would not be able to tell the difference in a blind test, although I have not tested that blind

[MikeyFresh]

On 10/24/2020 at 3:13 PM, JHG said:

I use my iPad and mconnectplayer HD to stream from my local server and Qobuz to my microRendu.  Is the app actually streaming the files through the iPad?

To the best of my knowledge the answer is no, it is simply a matter of the app "owning" the playlist itself, or in DLNA/UPnP parlance, the Control Point owns the playlist as opposed to the playlist residing on the Endpoint/Renderer as with OpenHome.

[Superdad]

PRODUCTION AND MISCELLANEOUS UPDATES:

 

Some here may have noticed that I have not been posting as much lately.  That's because these past few months have our busiest ever. Thanks to you all! 

 

Just last week subscribers of the print edition of The Absolute Sound received their December issue--in which appears a terrific multi-page review of EtherREGEN, written by none other than @Puma Cat (aka Stephen Scharf). As if the backlog of e-mail inquires was not already crushing, the has been a new wave into my inbox from TAS readers.

 

@JohnSwensonhas been working hard on the prototypes for several new projects we are collaborating on (not Ethernet products, so nothing that will supersede your EtherREGENs) and making good progress.

Yet most all my time has been focused on production, shipment and support of our current products. 

While the sheer quantity of new orders--for nearly every model--have be daunting, we continue to keep up and generally are managing to ship everyone's orders about a week ahead of scheduled/promised dates.  For example, all the EtherREGEN units promised for shipment by November 19th left here yesterday, November 12. And assuming FedEx does not delay delivery of EtherREGEN and ISO REGEN cases past this coming Monday, we will easily get out all the November 24th-promised goods by the 20th.

 

Below are some recent photos of the shop and production. JS-2s are labor intensive so it has not been easy to continue weaving 25 every 6 weeks alongside EtherREGEN production of hundreds.  (Neither a larger space nor more staffing are possible during the pandemic.)

 

I did finally decide to retire our 2001 AWD minivan--with 280,000 miles and a wildly unbalanced drive-shaft. Plane travel is not appealing anymore (actually never was for me), and although my wife and I used to enjoy camping we are at the age where a bed and bathroom are desirable. So we are buying a small travel trailer. I never saw myself buying a truck (I thought a Tesla Model Y was going to the first new car I ever bought), but that's where we ended up--for towing the new trailer. I refused to buy a planet-choking V8, and wanted something that felt like more like driving a car. So the independent rear suspension V6 Honda Ridgeline is where I ended up. Fun, sporty, and holds a lot of stuff! (Yes, that in-bed truck is large enough to discreetly move a body; our 19 year old son proved that by fitting himself in! ) In the mountains we'll be towing slowly but that's okay.

 

This is a tragic time worldwide with Covid19 rising. I am thankful for having our sons safe at home with us (in a county with few cases) and for the stability afforded us by the success of UpTone (my wife's non-profit environmental education organization has been in "hibernation" mode for most of the year; its survival uncertain). Still we feel awful for all that is happening--so we try to help by making donations, both domestically and internationally.

 

Wishing everyone well,

--Alex C.

 

 

 

[FrankMA]

Congratulations on the Ridgeline Alex. Have a 2020 myself. Nice vehicle

[mikicasellas]

1 hour ago, Superdad said:

PRODUCTION AND MISCELLANEOUS UPDATES:

 

Some here may have noticed that I have not been posting as much lately.  That's because these past few months have our busiest ever. Thanks to you all! 

 

Just last week subscribers of the print edition of The Absolute Sound received their December issue--in which appears a terrific multi-page review of EtherREGEN, written by none other than @Puma Cat (aka Stephen Scharf). As if the backlog of e-mail inquires was not already crushing, the has been a new wave into my inbox from TAS readers.

 

@JohnSwensonhas been working hard on the prototypes for several new projects we are collaborating on (not Ethernet products, so nothing that will supersede your EtherREGENs) and making good progress.

Yet most all my time has been focused on production, shipment and support of our current products. 

While the sheer quantity of new orders--for nearly every model--have be daunting, we continue to keep up and generally are managing to ship everyone's orders about a week ahead of scheduled/promised dates.  For example, all the EtherREGEN units promised for shipment by November 19th left here yesterday, November 12. And assuming FedEx does not delay delivery of EtherREGEN and ISO REGEN cases past this coming Monday, we will easily get out all the November 24th-promised goods by the 20th.

 

Below are some recent photos of the shop and production. JS-2s are labor intensive so it has not been easy to continue weaving 25 every 6 weeks alongside EtherREGEN production of hundreds.  (Neither a larger space nor more staffing are possible during the pandemic.)

 

I did finally decide to retire our 2001 AWD minivan--with 280,000 miles and a wildly unbalanced drive-shaft. Plane travel is not appealing anymore (actually never was for me), and although my wife and I used to enjoy camping we are at the age where a bed and bathroom are desirable. So we are buying a small travel trailer. I never saw myself buying a truck (I thought a Tesla Model Y was going to the first new car I ever bought), but that's where we ended up--for towing the new trailer. I refused to buy a planet-choking V8, and wanted something that felt like more like driving a car. So the independent rear suspension V6 Honda Ridgeline is where I ended up. Fun, sporty, and holds a lot of stuff! (Yes, that in-bed truck is large enough to discreetly move a body; our 19 year old son proved that by fitting himself in! ) In the mountains we'll be towing slowly but that's okay.

 

This is a tragic time worldwide with Covid19 rising. I am thankful for having our sons safe at home with us (in a county with few cases) and for the stability afforded us by the success of UpTone (my wife's non-profit environmental education organization has been in "hibernation" mode for most of the year; its survival uncertain). Still we feel awful for all that is happening--so we try to help by making donations, both domestically and internationally.

 

Wishing everyone well,

--Alex C.

 

 

 

Congrats Alex !!

[Johnnydev]

well deserved congratulations to you and your family and of course to John Swenson

[zettelsm]

 

Quote

 

I did finally decide to retire our 2001 AWD minivan--with 280,000 miles and a wildly unbalanced drive-shaft. Plane travel is not appealing anymore (actually never was for me), and although my wife and I used to enjoy camping we are at the age where a bed and bathroom are desirable. So we are buying a small travel trailer. I never saw myself buying a truck (I thought a Tesla Model Y was going to the first new car I ever bought), but that's where we ended up--for towing the new trailer. I refused to buy a planet-choking V8, and wanted something that felt like more like driving a car. So the independent rear suspension V6 Honda Ridgeline is where I ended up. Fun, sporty, and holds a lot of stuff! (Yes, that in-bed truck is large enough to discreetly move a body; our 19 year old son proved that by fitting himself in! ) In the mountains we'll be towing slowly but that's okay.

 

This is a tragic time worldwide with Covid19 rising. I am thankful for having our sons safe at home with us (in a county with few cases) and for the stability afforded us by the success of UpTone (my wife's non-profit environmental education organization has been in "hibernation" mode for most of the year; its survival uncertain). Still we feel awful for all that is happening--so we try to help by making donations, both domestically and internationally.

 

Wishing everyone well,

--Alex C.

 

I second the Ridgeline -- our 2010 has been a real workhorse. As you say, lots of space, good performance and your 2020 should handily beat our 2010 in fuel economy. Ours tows our 17' Casita Independence Deluxe travel trailer like a charm (we're like you -- our sleeping on the ground days are behind us!) and the ride is what you would expect from an IRS SUV. The Ridgeline and the Honda Pilot share the same basic platform.

 

Stay safe as you can, Alex. Hopefully there is a light at the end of this tunnel with the announcement of one vaccine and one or two others imminent. If we can just get through this winter. . .

 

Steve Z

[Superdad]

2 hours ago, zettelsm said:

Stay safe as you can, Alex. Hopefully there is a light at the end of this tunnel with the announcement of one vaccine and one or two others imminent. If we can just get through this winter. . .

 

Steve Z

 

Hi Steve:

Great to hear from you again. It has been a long while since we have seen you round these parts!

Just spent the morning installing a Redarc Tow Prow Elite brake controller (just a tiny knob on the dash, not funky box to bang one's knee on). The trailer we are picking up next week is the InTech Sol Horizon Rover. My wife is extremely excited about it. I need another hobby and vehicle to insure like I need a hole in my head.  But aside from camping this will be a way for us to visit family. We can park it in my sister's driveway in Santa Fe, or at my mom's in Petaluma.

 

Sorry for the off topic...

Cheers,

--Alex C.

[pl_svn]

12 hours ago, Superdad said:

this will be a way for us to visit family

 

... once "the thing" is over!

 

;)

[PGAUDIO]

15 hours ago, Superdad said:

 

Hi Steve:

Great to hear from you again. It has been a long while since we have seen you round these parts!

Just spent the morning installing a Redarc Tow Prow Elite brake controller (just a tiny knob on the dash, not funky box to bang one's knee on). The trailer we are picking up next week is the InTech Sol Horizon Rover. My wife is extremely excited about it. I need another hobby and vehicle to insure like I need a hole in my head.  But aside from camping this will be a way for us to visit family. We can park it in my sister's driveway in Santa Fe, or at my mom's in Petaluma.

 

Sorry for the off topic...

Cheers,

--Alex C.

Thank you for input

[JFHSQT]

I wanted to share some observations after relocating my system to the opposite side of the room to separate it from HT gear and also eliminate TVs, media consoles, etc. I am using a slightly tweaked Cardas golden ratio arrangement and have located all of my Naim separates on the floor on blocks. 

 

Because the etherRegen is so small I didn't have its own little block to use, so I figured with its little isolation feet it would be fine to set on top of my Naim HiCap DR power supply (powering Supernait 3). Over the past week I have been mainly focused with dialing in speaker and subwoofer placement, and only started critical listening on Saturday after much final laser measuring/pointing and subwoofer phase and volume tweaking.

 

What I discovered was that while the system now had pinpoint staging accuracy, perfectly locked phantom center imaging, and a seamless blend between the subwoofers and main speakers, it seemed as though the high bass in the 300-800Hz neighborhood had a bit of a veil over it, almost like a papery texture on bass guitar, kick slap, and male vocals. I was concerned that somehow all the work I did to improve everything else in the system was somehow going to be a trade off. 

 

Last night as I sat there trying to solve this puzzle and coming up empty it suddenly dawned on me that the etherRegen didn't seem to be making as much a contribution as it had in the past. I picked it up and rested my hand on the HiCap DR - although my HiCap is completely silent (no audible hum), I could feel very subtle vibration in the chassis. Given that I had placed the etherRegen on top of this vibrating piece of metal, and that the purpose of the etherRegen is to actually "clean up" a digital signal, it dawned on me that this veiling could be a consequence of the etherRegen placement.

 

To wrap up, I ended up giving the eR its own maple block and it took no longer than my walking back to my chair and sitting down to immediately notice that everything had cleaned up - the papery texture was gone, replaced by natural timbre and depth, the bass veil was cleaned up and there was more air and openness to the entire soundstage - much like when I first put the eR into my system over the summer. 

 

So it is quite an eye opener in a situation like that to just confirm how much of a difference the eR makes - even though it took a week or so to track down why, I am once again impressed with the impact it can have and wanted to share these additional experiences. 

[Puma Cat]

On 11/13/2020 at 11:41 AM, Superdad said:

PRODUCTION AND MISCELLANEOUS UPDATES:

 

Some here may have noticed that I have not been posting as much lately.  That's because these past few months have our busiest ever. Thanks to you all! 

 

Just last week subscribers of the print edition of The Absolute Sound received their December issue--in which appears a terrific multi-page review of EtherREGEN, written by none other than @Puma Cat (aka Stephen Scharf). As if the backlog of e-mail inquires was not already crushing, the has been a new wave into my inbox from TAS readers.

 

@JohnSwensonhas been working hard on the prototypes for several new projects we are collaborating on (not Ethernet products, so nothing that will supersede your EtherREGENs) and making good progress.

Yet most all my time has been focused on production, shipment and support of our current products. 

While the sheer quantity of new orders--for nearly every model--have be daunting, we continue to keep up and generally are managing to ship everyone's orders about a week ahead of scheduled/promised dates.  For example, all the EtherREGEN units promised for shipment by November 19th left here yesterday, November 12. And assuming FedEx does not delay delivery of EtherREGEN and ISO REGEN cases past this coming Monday, we will easily get out all the November 24th-promised goods by the 20th.

 

Below are some recent photos of the shop and production. JS-2s are labor intensive so it has not been easy to continue weaving 25 every 6 weeks alongside EtherREGEN production of hundreds.  (Neither a larger space nor more staffing are possible during the pandemic.)

 

I did finally decide to retire our 2001 AWD minivan--with 280,000 miles and a wildly unbalanced drive-shaft. Plane travel is not appealing anymore (actually never was for me), and although my wife and I used to enjoy camping we are at the age where a bed and bathroom are desirable. So we are buying a small travel trailer. I never saw myself buying a truck (I thought a Tesla Model Y was going to the first new car I ever bought), but that's where we ended up--for towing the new trailer. I refused to buy a planet-choking V8, and wanted something that felt like more like driving a car. So the independent rear suspension V6 Honda Ridgeline is where I ended up. Fun, sporty, and holds a lot of stuff! (Yes, that in-bed truck is large enough to discreetly move a body; our 19 year old son proved that by fitting himself in! ) In the mountains we'll be towing slowly but that's okay.

 

This is a tragic time worldwide with Covid19 rising. I am thankful for having our sons safe at home with us (in a county with few cases) and for the stability afforded us by the success of UpTone (my wife's non-profit environmental education organization has been in "hibernation" mode for most of the year; its survival uncertain). Still we feel awful for all that is happening--so we try to help by making donations, both domestically and internationally.

 

Wishing everyone well,

--Alex C.

 

 

 

Hi Alex,

 

Thanks for the update that the EtherREGEN review is out in the print issue of TAS for December, 2020. I haven't received my issue yet as I have a digital subscription (😉). Congrats on the new Honda Ridgeline, I have friends that own them and they are very, very happy with them. I've been driving and riding Honda Motor Co. products for the better part of 40 years, so I am big fan of the company. Enjoy your new wheels! 

 

All best,

Stephen

[Vule]

On 11/16/2020 at 8:06 PM, Puma Cat said:

review is out in the print issue of TAS for December, 2020

Just finished reading review in TAS. Great job done with review I personally found very detailed, comprehensive and informative.

[Puma Cat]

3 hours ago, Vule said:

Just finished reading review in TAS. Great job done with review I personally found very detailed, comprehensive and informative.

Thank you. 

 

I put considerable effort into writing it. At over 4000 words, it was a LOT of work. Thanks also to Alex and John providing very informative technical design information to ensure I was describing the unique features and functionality of EtherREGEN accurately. The design embodiment and functionality of EtherREGEN goes "pretty deep" (trust me on this) but it results in a singularly excellent and unique product. 

[Superdad]

1 hour ago, Puma Cat said:

I put considerable effort into writing it.

Indeed!  Thank you so much again Stephen. 

 

While I do not yet have permission to repost the review itself, I don't think the magazine will mind if I post the cover to the issue with our name on it.

With very good company in the category of "Cutting Edge Digital." 

 

 

And just 'one more thing': We are now permitted to announce that in the January issue EtherREGEN is winning an award for "Technology Breakthrough."

 

 

Now if we could only build enough of them to meet demand....

[R1200CL]

20 minutes ago, Superdad said:

And just 'one more thing': We are now permitted to announce that in the January issue EtherREGEN is winning an award for "Technology Breakthrough."

That’s so great Alex. (Make digital great agin 😀). 
 

Now I really looking forward to those 3 to 5 new possible products in pipeline inheriting  this technology used in etherRegen. 
 

Any expected month you think we will know about latest new product ?

 

BTW. I guess I can post links:

http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/how-to-optimize-digital-streaming-with-optical-fiber/ (last page). 
But this is obviously not the review mentioned above. 

[lwr]

55 minutes ago, Superdad said:

Indeed!  Thank you so much again Stephen. 

 

While I do not yet have permission to repost the review itself, I don't think the magazine will mind if I post the cover to the issue with our name on it.

With very good company in the category of "Cutting Edge Digital." 

 

 

And just 'one more thing': We are now permitted to announce that in the January issue EtherREGEN is winning an award for "Technology Breakthrough."

 

 

Now if we could only build enough of them to meet demand....

Congratulations!  Superb product indeed.

[Pokey77]

Loving my ER very much, especially with the recent Paul Hynes SR4T LPS added.

 

Congrats Alex & John.