UpTone Audio EtherREGEN Listening Impressions

[JamesBardsley]

7 hours ago, LowMidHigh said:

 

For this sort of money, you'd be better off chaining two ER's.

The boost in sound will be more significant, and you'll be left with some spare change. 

Have you directly compared 2 ERs vs ER with posh LPS in your system?

[roman410]

59 minutes ago, JamesBardsley said:

Do you feed a Cisco 2960 with an LPS?

is that commonly done on this forum?

which LPS is best to use?

Yes I do. But you have to remove internal AC-DC smps and feed Cisco with external 12v lps. It is easy to do if you have least minimal skills with soldering iron.

 

To my ears powering Cisco with clean power from lps make 50% from full Cisco benefit.

 

I am using cheap modify Chinese Teradak 30W lps. But any 12v minimum 1A lps will be better that noisy internal lps. But overall my experience better lps make better results.

 

[Pokey77]

So, you may remember that several have mentioned that having the ER closer to the source is supposedly the best place for it to be. As it has been in a different room for months, I finally got to experiment last Monday. A friend and I tested, with the same Ethernet wire (three cables - 2, 1M Supra 8+, and 1 Monoprice Cat5e - it is the cable out of the router). The only difference is the placement of the ER - either in the audio room or the other room where its been for months. In this other room, it is about 2' from the router.

 

Since my friend and I only did this test one time, with one song, I knew I needed to test more to make up my mind.

 

So, I decided to perform the following test - start with the ER in the audio room since that is where it was at. Both tests used the same four songs though today I added a fifth song. They are in order:

 

Eerie Wanda - Pet Town

Matt Lange - Testarosa

Lambchop - Everything for you

Carey Bell - It's so easy to love you

Royksopp - The Alcholic

 

Round 1, play songs - take notes. Round two, switch ER to old master. Round three, switch ER back to audio rack.

 

Surprisingly I heard the same thing both days only more so on the second day. With the ER in the audio room, I heard overall more resolution, which yielded more convincing tones, timber, and I found it more engaging. There was more air, better bass control, especially on the Matt Lange track, and instruments that sounded more real or natural. I also noticed better defined separation, a more snappy and real snare sound on several tracks, 3D soundstage (wide, tall, good depth). There is just a more linear, balanced, natural cadence to the music with the ER just a 3' section of Supra 8+ away from the Aurender N10. Cymbals also had that very natural sound and decay and that tinkly sound cymbals make, not a "sssshh" sound. Vocals on the few tracks with them were also very natural with excellent timber and believableness. I also found myself more relaxed and wrote "lovin' it!" on one track. Truthfully it was on all tracks I was lovin' it. Though the ER being in the other room did seem to have better bass on some tracks with perhaps more texture, it was not as natural and was even ever so slightly boomy (not good). And I also observed that when the ER is in the other room, some instruments or frequencies almost seem louder; ER closer to the source seemed to yield more linear sound.

 

As you may remember when I first reviewed the ER back some months, having the ER in the other room is better strategically for me as I've got room for it and an upgraded linear power supply (to come) and there is more open space for the ER to vent the heat, but the ER just sounds better closer to the server. So I'll have to figure that out next since I'd like to put a second power conditioner where the ER is currently in the audio rack. So, I, like some others, have found that the ER being very near the source is a plus. I also believe Alex said the same thing.

[PGAUDIO]

UpTone UltraCap LPS-1.2 brought some improvments.

Sliighly better bass,, detail and clarity.

[Pokey77]

I had planned to purchase a JS-2 if the ER stayed in the other room. I'd have used the other output on my router. But because I am going to leave the ER in my audio rack, I'm will most likely go with a Paul Hynes SR4T because I only need one output. I do wish that Alex and John would make a single rail power supply that didn't use a wall wart to power it. Also, Alex did mention somewhere about building the ER in a larger enclosure and including an upgraded LPS. That'd be sweet! I'd buy one for sure.

[JamesBardsley]

I sold my dCS Network Bridge over a year ago.

I realized that I'd hugely overestimated the impact it made on SQ.

 

I used the funds to buy a Naim 555DR linear psu for my Naim 272 streamer/DAc/preamp.

Now that new psu had a huge positive impact on SQ.

a Delightful uplift - as good as it gets in my experience of hifi (i.e. since 1980).

 

Anyway, funnily enough I just bought an EtherRegen from Audiostore a few weeks ago.

I've just ordered a Custom HiFi Cables DC3 linear psu for it.

 

So actually I'm more interested in that than network bridges.

 

I'm planning to try a fibre optic link from my PoE Cisco 2960's to the ER soon.

(Right now the ER is plugged straight into my PlusNet router with a Blue Jeans Cat 6a copper ethernet cable.)

If anyone knows what SFPs and cables would suit that task please let me know.

It's covered on various threads here, but most of them are about 50 pages long!

 

(sorry for thread digression)

 

[Albrecht]

On 8/7/2020 at 12:13 PM, JamesBardsley said:

 

I've just ordered a Custom HiFi Cables DC3 linear psu for it.

 

So actually I'm more interested in that than network bridges.

 

I'm planning to try a fibre optic link from my PoE Cisco 2960's to the ER soon.

(Right now the ER is plugged straight into my PlusNet router with a Blue Jeans Cat 6a copper ethernet cable.)

If anyone knows what SFPs and cables would suit that task please let me know.

It's covered on various threads here, but most of them are about 50 pages long!

 

(sorry for thread digression)

 

Hi, 

IME Best to use Cisco brand SFPs. I have a spare Cisco MM LC to LC. With non Cisco SFPs, you have to get into the Cisco console & configure for 3rd party SFPs.

 

cheers

[punit]

Has anyone with an Ultrarendu + ER moved to an Opticalrendu + ER ? Would be grateful for any feedback, if the move resulted in any sonic improvements ? Am contemplating the move but not sure if it will yield a noticeable improvement ?

 

Thanks

[JamesBardsley]

There are some threads on this on the Naim forum.

I think Bluesfan may have done that.

[soares]

4 hours ago, punit said:

Has anyone with an Ultrarendu + ER moved to an Opticalrendu + ER ? Would be grateful for any feedback, if the move resulted in any sonic improvements ? Am contemplating the move but not sure if it will yield a noticeable improvement ?

 

Thanks

If I may add. oM + eR + uR. 
I have also been considering to move to eR + oR but I am not sure if it will improve the extraordinary SQ from this combination.

I also would appreciate any feedback.

Tks Jorge

[sgb]

7 hours ago, punit said:

Has anyone with an Ultrarendu + ER moved to an Opticalrendu + ER ? Would be grateful for any feedback, if the move resulted in any sonic improvements ? Am contemplating the move but not sure if it will yield a noticeable improvement ?

 

Thanks

I started with a ultraRendu and then changed to opticalModule and opticalRendu. It was a noticeable improvement in SQ. 

Afther that I got the ER and connected it to the opticalRendu. Connected B=>A optical on the ER to the OR. This was even a bigger improvement in SQ. My latest change was a Farad Super3 Power Supply for the ER. The SQ got better. 

Of couse I think the SQ is much better because I have paid more for the Power Supply than for the ER. I am even going to fool myself and change the SBooster powersupply that I have for the Or to a Farad Super3 Power Supply and let the placebo effect let me think I will have an even bettet SQ.

[soares]

13 hours ago, sgb said:

I started with a ultraRendu and then changed to opticalModule and opticalRendu. It was a noticeable improvement in SQ. 

Afther that I got the ER and connected it to the opticalRendu. Connected B=>A optical on the ER to the OR. This was even a bigger improvement in SQ. My latest change was a Farad Super3 Power Supply for the ER. The SQ got better. 

Of couse I think the SQ is much better because I have paid more for the Power Supply than for the ER. I am even going to fool myself and change the SBooster powersupply that I have for the Or to a Farad Super3 Power Supply and let the placebo effect let me think I will have an even bettet SQ.

Tks for sharing. But have you ever compared my setup (oM + eR + uR) against the eR + oR? In what concerns LPS it’s understandable the they might improve SQ. I have ordered a Sbooster 12v + ultra and a Farad 3 7 v to feed my eR. Ideally they would have the same voltage to have a fair comparison but I need the Sbooster 12v for my Bufallo 2016 modded. In any case I am curious about the results. 

[sgb]

1 hour ago, soares said:

Tks for sharing. But have you ever compared my setup (oM + eR + uR) against the eR + oR? In what concerns LPS it’s understandable the they might improve SQ. I have ordered a Sbooster 12v + ultra and a Farad 3 7 v to feed my eR. Ideally they would have the same voltage to have a fair comparison but I need the Sbooster 12v for my Bufallo 2016 modded. In any case I am curious about the results. 

Sorry, no I didn't have the uR with the eR. I had oM + uR which didn´t work with HQPlayer. The eR came after I changed the uR to oR.

[soares]

2 hours ago, sgb said:

Sorry, no I didn't have the uR with the eR. I had oM + uR which didn´t work with HQPlayer. The eR came after I changed the uR to oR.

Strange. It’s been a while since I last use HQP but I don’t recall any problems. Will try any time soon. Cheers Jorge

[sgb]

43 minutes ago, soares said:

Strange. It’s been a while since I last use HQP but I don’t recall any problems. Will try any time soon. Cheers Jorge

It was the combination of the switch with SFP to oM to the uR and HQP that caused dropouts. It disappeared when I bought the oR and the eR.  

[soares]

41 minutes ago, sgb said:

It was the combination of the switch with SFP to oM to the uR and HQP that caused dropouts. It disappeared when I bought the oR and the eR.  

Tks🙏

[JohnSwenson]

11 hours ago, sgb said:

It was the combination of the switch with SFP to oM to the uR and HQP that caused dropouts. It disappeared when I bought the oR and the eR.  

HQP uses low level pause frames to implement flow control. The pause frames need a switch to see the pause frames and stop the stream for a period of time. The OM is not a switch so it doesn't know what to do with pause frames so over-runs can happen with HQP.

 

Other protocols deal with flow control differently so using the OM is only an issue with HQP and NAA.

 

The eR is a switch so it deals properly with pause frames so NAA and eR and oR works fine.

[soares]

5 hours ago, JohnSwenson said:

HQP uses low level pause frames to implement flow control. The pause frames need a switch to see the pause frames and stop the stream for a period of time. The OM is not a switch so it doesn't know what to do with pause frames so over-runs can happen with HQP.

 

Other protocols deal with flow control differently so using the OM is only an issue with HQP and NAA.

 

The eR is a switch so it deals properly with pause frames so NAA and eR and oR works fine.

Thank for the explanation John!

[vortecjr]

The ultraRendu supports pause frames with most routers/switchs and the EtherREGEN. The opticalRendu does not need anything specific to support pause frames because it has a switch built in already. opticalRendu will work connected to a opticalModule, router/switch, and the EtherREGEN.

[soares]

7 hours ago, vortecjr said:

The ultraRendu supports pause frames with most routers/switchs and the EtherREGEN. The opticalRendu does not need anything specific to support pause frames because it has a switch built in already. opticalRendu will work connected to a opticalModule, router/switch, and the EtherREGEN.

Tks Jesus!

[scolley]

Apologies as I go a wee bit OT here, but if we were to look at this thread as an "impressions" thread, vs. a "listening impressions" specific thread, it might qualify. I've just received my EtherREGEN, and it's warming up. I've not listened yet. I wanted to comment on the packaging in the interim.

 

I'm impressed. The shipment arrived well padded, though with the sturdy box that was in that padding, it was clearly a case of being extra cautious. The box, nice, well printed, sturdy: quality. And in the box everything well arranged, and situated to not have things rattling around. It included printed, stapled (!), instructions, with a nice little, single page, printed on extra heavy stock, quick-start guide. Thank you for that UpTone. The packaging was really all one could reasonably expect. It even included one of those unnecessary, clear plastic covers that protects the AC plug prongs from scratches. Nice touch.

 

The EtherRegen itself was clearly very solid, well built. Excellent fit and finish. You've all either got one or seen the pictures. In person it looks as just good as the pictures. But one thing that pleasantly surprised me was the weight. I know there are concerns about weight. Heck, I had them myself. Clearly it is a small little box. My fear was that it would be as light as ra un-of-the-mill SOHO switch of similar size. Nope a decent bit heavier, I'm please to report. So while with an extremely rigid Ethernet cable, I'm sure it's still possible to lift it. But I've got a reasonably substantial cable myself, and the EtherREGEN is just heavy enough to work with my cable  just fine.

 

One final comment. My Ethernet cable - a Ghent Audio ET11 - has nice, sturdy Metz Connect CAT6A shielded 10GBase-T connector. And it's disappointingly loose in my Mytek Brooklyn Bridge, and likewise just a shade on the not-so-tight side of my Netgear GS105 switch that is being replaced. But when I plugged the cable into the EtherREGEN... SNAP! Firm. No wiggle whatsoever. Holding with a vise grip. So clearly proper tolerances are were paid attention to when parts were sourced.

 

Like I said, I've not heard it yet. But first impressions are dead on solid.

[Mikey26]

I have the Etherregen on order. I had some questions on trying to minimize system noise as much as possible. Since I have cable internet (Not DSL), is the actual Coaxial cable that comes out from the wall and goes into the cable modem  a source of noise itself? Are any filters Coaxial filters recommended by anyone to further lower incoming noise? Thank you 

[stevebythebay]

I have Comcast/Xfinity as my ISP and I know that, at least in my case, the only thing that was done for connection to my cable modem was to add an attenuator right before entering the modem.  Beyond that there are some Ethernet cables designed to mitigate noise such as those from Shunyata Research.  However, it might be better to look at the output side of the EtherREGEN for using such cables first and then the input side of the EtherREGEN could be explored.  Maybe others have found other inline devices for either/both input to the modem and WiFi routers or their combination.  Experiment to see what's best in your situation, how much network streaming you do versus local file playing.

[soares]

2 hours ago, Mikey26 said:

I have the Etherregen on order. I had some questions on trying to minimize system noise as much as possible. Since I have cable internet (Not DSL), is the actual Coaxial cable that comes out from the wall and goes into the cable modem  a source of noise itself? Are any filters Coaxial filters recommended by anyone to further lower incoming noise? Thank you 

Hi Mikey. I use a Jensen VRD- iFF . 
It improved things a little bit both sound an image. But this was a 3 years ago. Meanwhile I made lots of upgrades to my system. You can give it a try. I think I spent about 60$. 

[Mikey26]

Steve and spares, thanks for your suggestions.