The ultimate Power Supply Units for music servers (and other devices for cleaner power source)

[rickca]

13 minutes ago, Chopin75 said:

If there is less noise feeding into the server in the first place, that would be better than trying to filter out the noise downstream

@JohnSwenson's research regarding propagation of clock phase noise signature (fingerprint) should help clarify the right approach ... along with user experience with the upcoming EtherREGEN.

[Ralf11]

29 minutes ago, Chopin75 said:

isolate the music server is one way but isolation may have its draw back. I chucked away my ifi Igalvanic as it tends to "color" the sound.  Currently I just use an optical USB cable from Corning that does the galvanic isolation without reclocking, seems to work better.

I think getting rid of the source of the problem is more effective. Besides, isolating the music server would not solve the dirty  current and noise already inside the music server. If there is less noise feeding into the server in the first place, that would be better than trying to filter out the noise downstream

Hence we should work from upstream, starting with hospital grade receptacle at the wall. ( I have not bothered doing that yet since I am renting right now)

 

 

 

optical good

 

hospital grade receptacle not important - I have one but it was free

 

dirty  current and noise already the music server is inconsequential if it is isolated from the DAC

 

are you saying that such isolation is more expensive than buying a low noise music server?  I'd likely disagree as a general purpose computer works fine

[Superdad]

36 minutes ago, Chopin75 said:

Currently I just use an optical USB cable from Corning that does the galvanic isolation without reclocking, seems to work better.

 

Really sorry to burst your bubble, but the Corning optical USB cable does not provide galvanic isolation.  It has copper wires running alongside the fiber cable—to power its far end transceiver. If you put a continuity meter on the plug shells at each end you will get a beep. 

[Chopin75]

2 hours ago, Superdad said:

 

Surprised to see you perpetuate such a myth Fred.  Since you also wrote:

 

And @auricgoldfinger stated this--though he seems to let slide Paul Hynes' even worse communication and delivery track record:

 

So many people report giving away their money and waiting forever with no updates and mostly excuses:

 

I honestly do not understand why people patronize such unprofessional (perhaps not a stretch to say unethical) businesses.  I spend more than 20 hours per week doing nothing but returning client e-mails, and I have never once accepted payment for product without promising and meeting a firm delivery date--typically either immediate of within 2-weeks shipment.  

Guess that is why there are now about 800 JS-2s in the field and close to 3,000 UltraCap units. 

 

My apologies if such discussion of business and reputation is off-topic.  Perhaps the TLS power supply is a fine unit, but nobody knows what is actually in the box.  (And there was this funky incident:

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/38316-the-linear-solution-lps912-design-for-sotm-products/?do=findComment&comment=772398

 

Yah, do  try to remain neutral. We do want unbiased opinions not affected by business interest.. we should also keep criticism as toned down as we can. Thanks!

[Chopin75]

50 minutes ago, Superdad said:

 

Really sorry to burst your bubble, but the Corning optical USB cable does not provide galvanic isolation.  It has copper wires running alongside the fiber cable—to power its far end transceiver. If you put a continuity meter on the plug shells at each end you will get a beep. 

The copper wire is to convert optical back to electrical. It is not used for data transfer nor giving vBus. and yes it can cause noise contamination. I use your USPCB vbus off to block any leakage though not sure if it matters.  I am merely talking regards to isolation with the optical part. Now is it truly galvanically isolated, not sure. It works better than my copper shielded  USB cable. Seriously, despite being 10M long! Even playing u-tube from my macbook sounds pretty good

[Chopin75]

1 hour ago, Ralf11 said:

 

optical good

 

hospital grade receptacle not important - I have one but it was free

 

dirty  current and noise already the music server is inconsequential if it is isolated from the DAC

 

are you saying that such isolation is more expensive than buying a low noise music server?  I'd likely disagree as a general purpose computer works fine

Isolation devices can be costly, without OT, i am merely saying the dirty current will still affect the Servers as  it is doing the important software process of decoding the music files, so this disruption would have affected the quality of data transfer to the DAC.it is like the CDplayer reading has lots of errors and so even even u reclock or galvanic isolate, the original data is screwed up, polluted and affects everything downstream. That is why most music servers,commercial or DIY always come with some LPS , and hence the birth of this new thread. 

[Chopin75]

7 hours ago, marce said:

https://www.audioxpress.com/article/Power-Transformers-for-Audio-Equipment

Good info. But all it says about R core is that it is easier to implement at lower cost and somehow not commonly used in US. I see my own Sony SACD player uses R core and my DAC also uses them (3 of them)  i guess u can put R-core in a smaller space as it only radiates EMR in certain direction. China has many products with R core. They probably have many factories making them 

[sandyk]

Chopin75

 Don't forget that as the OP of this thread that you are able to request that off topic and other extraneous material be removed.

Let's not see this thread with potentially worthwhile information get derailed before it even gets going properly.

Regards

Alex

[Ralf11]

57 minutes ago, Chopin75 said:

 Servers as  it is doing the important software process of decoding the music files

 

can you explain this further?

 

not sure what you mean by a server - if it is acting like a DAC

[wanta911]

Ah....the rabbit hole of external linear power supplies.

 

I have quite a few ranging down in price from the Uptone JS-2 to a generic Chinese made Studer 900 design, with SBoosters and HDPlex in between. So which one is best? I have tried all sorts of different permutations in my chain but I'm not sure if I have it figured out yet which LPS is best where? Different combinations to my ear have varied from overly warm & sluggish to not hearing a difference and to slightly edgy sound reproduction, depending on the source material. At the moment I have my most expensive LPS sitting on the sidelines.

 

Interestingly, getting opinions on different combinations in my setup from 3rd party listeners has not been definitive with opinions split on what sounds best to them. Not surprising in the least as this has also been my experience with equipment.

 

All this from someone that runs with 2 very different DACs in their setup - I alternate between a Chord Qutest and a Metrum Pavane R2R NOS DAC. Maybe I'm just indecisive? 😉

 

 

 

[Chopin75]

1 hour ago, Ralf11 said:

 

can you explain this further?

 

not sure what you mean by a server - if it is acting like a DAC

I mean the PC that is having the OS/Software playing the music, not the DAC.  E.g  a NUC that has Audio linux + J River playing the music files (but not doing the DAC stuff), and the sent to the DAC separately via USB etc... I am not familiar with roon/NAS etc so I can't give example of that.I am a single box guy but I presume the LPS would matter in every single box used. 

[Dev]

5 hours ago, auricgoldfinger said:

 

The reason people patronize the two businesses you mention is their products sound significantly better than what is available from Uptone.  Multiple people have said the TLS power supply sounds significantly better than a JS-2 or LPS-1.2, so why does it matter what is inside the box as long as it works?  You gave the Farad3 design a good thrashing in these forums awhile back.  Since its sound quality is in a completely different league than the LPS-1.2, I don't really care if you believe their approach is somehow flawed or less than optimal.

 

Most people are perfectly happy with your fine power supplies and have no need to look any further, and of course, your service is the best.  Nevertheless, there will always be some who want or need more. 

 

I would also note that Paul Hynes was not experiencing such lengthy delays when I placed my order, and as you well know, I no recourse other than to "sell" my place in the queue.  TLS has a 4-6 month wait for a completely custom solution.  This is on par with other reputable builders such as Dr. Sean Jacobs.  I find the wait time to be quite reasonable given the nature of the product.

 

Some manufacturers have an uncanny aptitude here to thrash other products whenever their sound quality exceeds all the well-known marketed products in AS. Nothing new and has been repeatedly done over and over again; Off-coarse they are sponsors and have infinite leeway

[sandyk]

19 minutes ago, Dev said:

Some manufacturers have an uncanny aptitude here to thrash other products whenever their sound quality exceeds all the well-known marketed products in AS.

 

 No particular power supply will necessarily sound best in all systems !!!

[Dev]

2 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 

 No particular power supply will necessarily sound best in all systems !!!

 

Why not ? Well, the beloved SR-7 seems to do the trick.

[sandyk]

30 minutes ago, Dev said:

 

Why not ? Well, the beloved SR-7 seems to do the trick.

 That is your personal subjective opinion only, although the SR-7 is undoubtedly a high performer and will suit already well optimised systems..

Not all systems sound the same, nor do all power supplies respond the same to sudden transient demands on current..

Some systems may sound a little too dull sounding or lacking in dynamics , others may lack a little warmth, and many (most?) will benefit from a little added HF detail. These shortcomings can for the most part be corrected by the right choice of power supplies to suit the problem.

As an example, many members appear to like the added HF detail that the low noise L3045 series of Voltage regulators can provide, due to their output impedance in most applications being a little lower to >100kHz which can accentuate HF detail.

 Most devices do however benefit from lower noise power supplies than  from the much older style voltage regulators such as the LM317 etc.which are not very effective at removing residual HF ripple from SMPS supplies.

 

[Chopin75]

BTW, one should remember it also depends on what you use the LPS for.  Mainly I want to concentrate on LPS that can do the job of running a PC music server/streamer or whatever you call them, sorry I get confused with terminology like server, streamer, renderer etc...

 

The LPS has to have enough power to drive the desired CPU one uses. It seems that for a larger more power hunger CPU, a LPS that can supply the correct Volt and Amp would be most important (or it won't work at all!). So naturally there would potentially be more noise issue if one needs a LPS that does say 19V/7-10 A,  vs with a 5V/2A (if all else equals) correct ?  

But it seems we have lots of low power LPS to choose from but not many at >12V or > 5A

We all assume LPS is best, though Teddypardo is doing something different, (I have not looked into that in detail) but apparently it is not LPS nor SM

And  Supracap or ultra caps (I presume they are same) are very popular these days. So are they superior to Toroidal or R Core ??

 

 

[Nenon]

8 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

Isolate the music server from the DAC and don't worry about a PS for the music server.

 

For the DAC, you first want to buy a high quality one with a top notch analog stage - it may have multiple power supplies inside it.  A battery would be the ultimate PS for a DAC.

 

That would be my first strong disagreement on this forum, but we can't all agree. 

[sandyk]

2 minutes ago, Chopin75 said:

And  Supracap or ultra caps (I presume they are same) are very popular these days. So are they superior to Toroidal or R Core ??

 

 They will still need power supplied by a transformer of some kind, or a high A.H. battery.

[Chopin75]

Just now, sandyk said:

 

 They will still need power supplied by a transformer of some kind, or a high A.H. battery.

oh yah, I forget. Thanks,

[Nenon]

9 hours ago, k27R said:

I haven't looked inside though, too scared to see what's in there

 

Posting a photo when you do would be much appreciated. 

I have never bought expensive equipment without knowing what's inside, at least at a high level / design concept.

 

[baconbrain]

On 6/28/2019 at 11:07 PM, ronfint said:

My experience with Sean Jacobs has been outstanding. I ordered a DC3 on March 27, and it was in my hands (in the US) on May 13. All questions that I had were answered immediately and informatively. This power supply is outstanding, and so is Sean Jacobs' customer service.

+1 

 

I just want to share briefly my experience with Custom HiFi Cables Ltd. and in particular Sean Jacobs. I appreciate the sonic quality of the work Sean puts into his PSU‘s. So, when that is backed with an exceptional level of customer service, I believe that warrants mention. I must honestly admit that it has been quite a while since I have experienced a level of professional competence, timely responses (evenings, weekends, early mornings) and just downright friendliness, as with Sean. A clear recommendation from my side to anyone who is considering a PSU.

[Chopin75]

 

Has anyone tried such a filter ?

 

http://www.custom-hifi-cables.co.uk/home/mains-filters-surge-protection/black-box-super-conditioner

[jabbr]

On 6/28/2019 at 4:55 PM, auricgoldfinger said:

The reason people patronize the two businesses you mention is their products sound significantly better than what is available from Uptone.

 

We are in the frankly bizarre situation where power supplies are being discussed as having a “sound”. The function of a power supply is to supply clean, unimpeded power, without noise. 

 

My goal is to eliminate sound from the components, and listen to the music. 

[jabbr]

On 6/28/2019 at 11:16 PM, sandyk said:

Not all systems sound the same, nor do all power supplies respond the same to sudden transient demands on current..

 

True. We should focus on the failings of the equipment being supplied then. A Class A design will have less fluctuation in current draw. A balanced design might have zero fluctuation in current draw! 

Everything can be balanced including digital logic. Constant current design is a thing. 

[jabbr]

On 6/28/2019 at 5:25 PM, Chopin75 said:

isolate the music server is one way but isolation may have its draw back. I chucked away my ifi Igalvanic as it tends to "color" the sound.  Currently I just use an optical USB cable from Corning that does the galvanic isolation without reclocking, seems to work better.

 

I have one. unfortunately not anything similar to fiberoptic Ethernet which is extraordinarily good isolation. Fiberoptic Ethernet isn’t just about fiberoptic, rather the super high grade electronics (including clocks)  and transducers. 

 

On 6/28/2019 at 5:25 PM, Chopin75 said:

I think getting rid of the source of the problem is more effective. Besides, isolating the music server would not solve the dirty  current and noise already inside the music server. If there is less noise feeding into the server in the first place, that would be better than trying to filter out the noise downstream

Hence we should work from upstream, starting with hospital grade receptacle at the wall. ( I have not bothered doing that yet since I am renting right now)

 

 

 

As Ive said elsewhere, the bitstream transmitted across a 10G Ethernet link is required to have very low jitter — it has to fit inside a very very tight eye pattern — there’s no room for noise. As long as the system is working as specified, the server is isolated.