The ultimate Power Supply Units for music servers (and other devices for cleaner power source)

[luisma]

On my quote I mentioned TDP as something we all know and understand as an idea on how much power the cpu dissipates  but it is meaningless when calculating real power draw for a cpu. Just wanted to clarify since we are mostly technical here. And it is not OT as it relates directly to the power supply needed.

[Chopin75]

7 minutes ago, luisma said:

I think it all depends if are up sampling or not. You are not so even with a fast cpu not very likely you will stress it to TDP limits. @Nenongot himself a custom DC3 with custom transformers or so it seems by what I understand from his post, but he is not up sampling either so his rig can power the 9900k with no issues. Now if you are using all cores turbo etc his 9900k needs 210 Watts for which your EPS connector should be fed with 20 Amps at least? Maybe someone can confirm my post. 

 

I'm currently in the process of getting a new Ryzen cpu and very very likely will power this initially with a fanless ATX PS (my js2 can't do it) and eventually will use an LPS or LPS to caps solution, not sure yet. 

 

@Nenonare you feeding the board directly from the rails or you are using caps in between?

 

Hmm, since I do the at times upsample or do PCM--->DSD with HQplayer, I am using the higher CPU, just in case. I was told with my HDPLEX 200W ---> DC-ATX I need 10 A at least to be sure. You should check with the computer experts who build computers what is the minimal requirement for your Ryzen CPU. Mine is 2700x that already uses quite a bit of power if running full capacity (which I never do). If you use those 3000 series  or 16 core etc... you definitely should make sure your PS has enough juice, even if not doing crazy upsampling. I think the sound would be beneficial if you use a PS that is just a bit more than you need rather than barely enough for the job! (just my hunch, no proof) 

[luisma]

You are correct, OT, I was also staying away from upsampling but now Miska released new modulators which are power hungry but supposedly very good and I want to try them. 

My overall feeling is with LPSs we are hitting power limits but the SQ is there and we are all about SQ, which path do we take? Do we compromise with power or upsampling? Can we have the best of both worlds? With my new pc I'm going to have 2 digital systems and will be able to compare. 

[Nenon]

24 minutes ago, luisma said:

@Nenonare you feeding the board directly from the rails or you are using caps in between?

 

 

Directly. The voltage regulator boards sit about an inch or two away from the ATX / EPS connectors. 

http://www.the-ear.net/how-to/power-supply-design-innuos-statement - that's pretty much what I have done, but with shorter JSSG360 shielded Mundorf silver/gold wires, WBT silver solder, Furutech NanoLiquid, etc. It was a very OCD-style implementation. And very time consuming. But the end result was awesome. 

[luisma]

Very interesting, let me digest it, thanks for sharing. 

[Le Concombre Masqué]

5 hours ago, Nenon said:

nice LPS on everything network related, vibration isolation, expensive ethernet cables, etc. etc. Some of those things definitely helped, but again I was never excited about my digital rig.

 

 

expensive ethernet cables: that's puzzling me ; have you found right ethernet cables, that is UTP type, no metal in connector and etc that defeat the galvanic isolation by design AND that are expensive?

[StreamFidelity]

I use the combination

HDPLEX 200W Linear Power Supply (LPS) Black

HDPLEX 400W HiFi DC-ATX 

and I am very satisfied with it. The stability and processing of HDPLEX is very good.

As some have written, I also believe that a powerful CPU operating below their specifications is good.

I have currently my Intel Core i9-9900K (95W TDP), 3,6GHz - 5,0GHz OctaCore staggered down to 3.2GHz and use comfortable HQPlayer DSD 512.

 

 

 

 

[sandyk]

On ‎7‎/‎8‎/‎2019 at 2:01 PM, Nenon said:

 

Directly. The voltage regulator boards sit about an inch or two away from the ATX / EPS connectors. 

http://www.the-ear.net/how-to/power-supply-design-innuos-statement - that's pretty much what I have done, but with shorter JSSG360 shielded Mundorf silver/gold wires, WBT silver solder, Furutech NanoLiquid, etc. It was a very OCD-style implementation. And very time consuming. But the end result was awesome. 

Re the attached statement from the link

Quote

 For example, if we were powering the SSD and a clock module from the same regulator, then any supply noise created within the SSD (power usage is typically not constant, any variations mean a change in current draw and a very small change in voltage at the regulator output) would be free to travel along the supply wire and it would be fed straight into the clock module as well.

 

Doing that is a definite No,No,  as the ripple injected back into the supply from the SSD/HDD consists of  "square wave" pulses with a bandwidth to >10MHz  with a typical HDD, and probably worse with an SSD

 

[Nenon]

1 hour ago, sandyk said:

Re the attached statement from the link

 

Doing that is a definite No,No,  as the ripple injected back into the supply from the SSD/HDD consists of  "square wave" pulses with a bandwidth to >10MHz  with a typical HDD, and probably worse with an SSD

 

 

What is a "definite No,No"? 

[sandyk]

1 hour ago, Nenon said:

 

What is a "definite No,No"? 

 

Don't feed power to both an Oscillator and an SSD from the same supply rail without further regulation (preferably) or further filtering  of the power to the oscillator.

 I use the attached, which is fairly similar to the P.F.M. Flea to separately power oscillators from an already low noise voltage regulator.

[Nenon]

20 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 

Don't feed power to both an Oscillator and an SSD from the same supply rail without further regulation (preferably) or further filtering  of the power to the oscillator.

 

They don't do that. Perhaps you misread what they wrote. They are also saying it's not a good idea and explaining why they use 8 rails on this server. The SSD has its own separate rail.

I actually like that they also have two rails for the USB reclocker - the OCXO clock on the USB reclocker has its own power rail and the USB uses another rail. I wish more hardware manufacturers like JCAT, PinkFaun, SOTM, etc. did the same. 

 

[sandyk]

26 minutes ago, Nenon said:

They don't do that. Perhaps you misread what they wrote.

 

I didn't misread it. I was trying to reinforce in more depth what they were saying.

 It's not just about small voltage variations, it's about the wideband, fast rise and fall time noise from the SSD being superimposed on the supply to the Oscillator,

[manishex]

At the moment i have a 550W seasonic fanless PSU for my standard pc, I only use about 300W. Anyone know of a good alternative for less noise since it comes from the wall, Linear power supply? 

[Nenon]

8 hours ago, sandyk said:

 

I didn't misread it. I was trying to reinforce in more depth what they were saying.

 It's not just about small voltage variations, it's about the wideband, fast rise and fall time noise from the SSD being superimposed on the supply to the Oscillator,

 

Agreed. 

[sandyk]

12 hours ago, manishex said:

At the moment i have a 550W seasonic fanless PSU for my standard pc, I only use about 300W.

 

 You need to know the actual current it draws at start up. It may be a bit much for most Linear PSUs

[R1200CL]

On 7/8/2019 at 9:56 AM, Le Concombre Masqué said:

expensive ethernet cables: that's puzzling me ; have you found right ethernet cables, that is UTP type, no metal in connector and etc that defeat the galvanic isolation by design AND that are expensive?

Try blue jeans or Ghent Audio. Both use Belden. 

[Le Concombre Masqué]

4 hours ago, R1200CL said:

Try blue jeans or Ghent Audio. Both use Belden. 

the blue jeans look ok, not the Ghent

[[email protected]]

On 7/2/2019 at 2:52 AM, R1200CL said:

@[email protected]

Maybe Alexey can du some funny things with his boxes ?

 

But reading John’s post, doesn’t give me much hope. 

Just finished small test

Yes - it it easy to parallel ANY power supplies with LT3045 regulator boards, need to wire LT3045 outputs for Parallel, connect SET networks and can feed with different PSU. 
Below 2 x LT3045 5VDC out board with outputs connected in parallel, as you can see the current for each PSU is NOT matched (1st pic), but as soon as you connect SET networks (SET PIN) it is balanced perfectly (2nd pic). Moreover 1st board feeds with 12VDC, 2nd with 15vdc!!!  

 

 

 

[R1200CL]

10 hours ago, Le Concombre Masqué said:

blue jeans look ok, not the Ghent

May I ask why ? 
The Ghentaudio ones use a fully double shield Belden with  JSSG360 not connected to the metal plugs. And the plugs itself do shielding. 

A bit same as the AudioQuest Vodka does. 

[R1200CL]

1 hour ago, [email protected] said:

Just finished small test

How much is the voltage drop over your boards ?

 

[sandyk]

3 hours ago, [email protected] said:

Just finished small test

Alexey

Ever wondered why in the whole 36 page Data sheet there is no mention of the LT3045 for it's suitability for use with Analogue Audio, or any diagrams given for analogue use such as in Low noise Audio Preamplifiers etc?

The Data sheets make NO claims as to their suitability for HiFi Audio .

 Normally, a manufacturer would jump at a chance to list that in their suitable uses.

 It's virtually all about their use for low noise Instrumentation.

 Unless I missed it, neither do they give any graphs for output impedance with frequency.

With all the low value, low ESR capacitors that they need to use, don't be surprised if their output impedance is way less at >100KHz and higher,  than it is over the Audio band.

With Analogue electronics this results in accentuation of HF detail, unless Higher value normal ESR capacitors are used in parallel at their inputs etc. Unless you also do this,this may also result with some systems  in a large and billowy soundstage, with perhaps sibilance accentuated and a little "hardness" about the sound.

Perhaps this is why so many members still love Vinyl, and find typical Digital Audio implementations lacking a natural warmth ?

The addition of the extra capacitance then results in trade offs in regulator speed and HF bandwidth, which aren't normally a problem for Analogue Audio though.

 

Yes, the LT3045 works very well though as a low noise supply for the input chips of DACs where I use one,

but I certainly wouldn't use them without additional parallel capacitors in the Analogue areas of DACs and Audio Preamplifiers.

 

Regards

Alex

[Le Concombre Masqué]

2 hours ago, R1200CL said:

May I ask why ? 
The Ghentaudio ones use a fully double shield Belden with  JSSG360 not connected to the metal plugs. And the plugs itself do shielding. 

A bit same as the AudioQuest Vodka does. 

I don't have any further explanation than the one provided by Miska and a personal inclination for well & seriously built to established computing standards and norms cables. I'm happy with my Roline UTP 6 ,  hope you're happy with yours. Just check that you don't have to put thousands of $€ in gears to compensate issues brought in by 100$ cables that you would not have with 10€ cables

[charlesphoto]

11 minutes ago, Le Concombre Masqué said:

I don't have any further explanation than the one provided by Miska and a personal inclination for well & seriously built to established computing standards and norms cables. I'm happy with my Roline UTP 6 ,  hope you're happy with yours. Just check that you don't have to put thousands of $€ in gears to compensate issues brought in by 100$ cables that you would not have with 10€ cables

 

You have no clue what you're talking about. The Ghent cables are extremely well made and neutral sounding. Everything I've gotten from them has been great sounding and extremely well fabricated. Blue Jeans is merely meh imo (and I would love to support them as they are a local company). 

[luisma]

36 minutes ago, Le Concombre Masqué said:

I don't have any further explanation than the one provided by Miska

Hi, What Miska states is the regular cables with plastic connectors provides isolation, the Ghent cable not being connected on the metal plugs provides the same, with the jssg360 add on, 

 

Now the jssg360 is a cuestionable thing, many believe in it some won't, and the metal plugs like @R1200CLmentioned will provide EMI shielding.

 

Sorry for jumping in, just going through the thread 

[luisma]

If you are happy with normal cables go for it but I kind of share @charlesphotoopinion, with the exception of the you don't have a clue what you are taking about comment 🙂

Ghent cables and support are great, speakers, USB, ethernet, for the money although a little more sexpensive than others the quality is great. 

But if you believe in other cables of course by all means, I don't have all the answers