CD players are back ?

[Miska]

16 minutes ago, ajay556 said:

quote from kalista review  -

The Kalista Dreamplay/DAC take the notion that CD is a dying medium and stomps all over it. If you listen to this player as a player then go back to the very best streaming can offer, you’ll start to wonder if we’ve taken a wrong turn in sound quality. This might be perhaps the most elaborate way of spinning a polycarbonate disc in a time of absolute convenience, and the cost might cause even the most spendthrift and well-heeled of audiophiles to think twice, but it sounds fantastic and that is ultimately all that matters.

 

If this is the very best there is for silver disc playback, I'm not  very impressed:

https://www.stereophile.com/content/kalista-dreamplay-one-cd-player-measurements

 

[Miska]

29 minutes ago, ajay556 said:

Otherwise you could simply use a macbook and get the same sound quality as innuos 15k Behemoth connected to a reclocked DAC.

 

No, you can use MacBook and get same or better performance...

 

[kumakuma]

Deleted

[sandyk]

3 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

No, you can use MacBook and get same or better performance...

 

 Via USB ?

[diecaster]

35 minutes ago, ajay556 said:

You simply cannot send the buffered data  and have DAC reclock without errors and independent of the source.

 

Of course you can! My DAC, a PS Audio DirectStream, has a track you can play that will show the text “Bit Perfect” on its display if the track gets to the DAC bit perfect. I have done this over USB and the Ethernet interface using both a direct connection and a Roon (with and without HQPlayer). 

 

So, again, you show you have no idea what you are talking about. 

 

 

[Miska]

1 minute ago, sandyk said:

 Via USB ?

 

USB or network. It all depends on the DAC, and what you do in the playback computer. For example as far as I can see, Innuos just spits out the data as-is and doesn't offer any DSP capabilities.

[Ralf11]

18 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

If this is the very best there is for silver disc playback, I'm not  very impressed:

https://www.stereophile.com/content/kalista-dreamplay-one-cd-player-measurements

 

 

What do you expect from a cheap piece of junk like that?

 

A truly Audiophool CD player would do MUCH better (despite costing > a mere $43k)

[sandyk]

Has anybody heard this one ?

https://www.psaudio.com/directstream-memory-player/

 I heard a friend's earlier model that had a few mods done and it was pretty damn good.

[fas42]

1 hour ago, Miska said:

 

If this is the very best there is for silver disc playback, I'm not  very impressed:

https://www.stereophile.com/content/kalista-dreamplay-one-cd-player-measurements

 

 

I just read the subjective thoughts, https://www.stereophile.com/content/kalista-dreamplay-one-cd-player-page-2. Yep, this is a unit without the digital "snap, crackle, pop" that is almost omnipresent - the "heavy-ass Sony disc player" is an excellent specimen of that sonic behaviour ... how many ways can one say, "boring" ...

 

Good digital replay is about presenting music - something that falls through the cracks, over and over again.

[left channel]

I paired this one with a matching DAC-9 from the same company, and am enjoying it immensely: https://nuprimeaudio.com/product/cdt-8-pro/ But hey feel free to pick it apart. That's why we're here.

[ajay556]

6 hours ago, diecaster said:

 

Of course you can! My DAC, a PS Audio DirectStream, has a track you can play that will show the text “Bit Perfect” on its display if the track gets to the DAC bit perfect. I have done this over USB and the Ethernet interface using both a direct connection and a Roon (with and without HQPlayer). 

 

So, again, you show you have no idea what you are talking about. 

 

 

ok you are just not getting the concept. You are thinking PS Audio bit perfect has anything to do with this conversation...thats like saying my  300 watt amp performance perfectly at 300 watts ...  And fyi..i had PS audio direct stream too..i sold it for a CD player that killed the PS audio in music performance....PS audio makes great digital players but its not in par with truly high end digital playback - there goes your bit perfect logic....so please sign off from this thread

[ajay556]

Just like wattage has little to do with sound quality of the amp - bit perfect has very little to do with sound quality of the digital playback ....so we need to stop using bit perfect as indication of a perfect digital player. That is just sound bite and great for marketing

[Miska]

6 hours ago, fas42 said:

I just read the subjective thoughts, https://www.stereophile.com/content/kalista-dreamplay-one-cd-player-page-2. Yep, this is a unit without the digital "snap, crackle, pop" that is almost omnipresent - the "heavy-ass Sony disc player" is an excellent specimen of that sonic behaviour ... how many ways can one say, "boring" ...

 

Good digital replay is about presenting music - something that falls through the cracks, over and over again.

 

I want that; good sound without digitus. But it must be with good measurement results too. That's what I get in my system.

 

(and Stereophile's subjective views depend heavily on price, bling and how the reviewer thinks about the brand)

[Miska]

1 hour ago, ajay556 said:

PS audio makes great digital players but its not in par with truly high end digital playback - there goes your bit perfect logic....

 

Can you show some objective data on this?

 

For me, high end digital playback also means faultless technical performance.

[ajay556]

here is a review of the PS audio player from top magazine ..it says discs are better and i agree 100%. The  PS audio is not even using a dedicated cd transport but a oppo dvd player transport

 

In an era of streaming network-attached digital music sources you might think the time for listening to music as played from spinning silver discs is past, but that isn’t necessarily the case. In fact, if you have read between the lines of commentary from many of our reviewers you might have noticed a quiet trend; namely, a softly spoken preference for the sound quality of music played from discs as compared to the sound of the same music played from network-connected players or servers. It’s hard to say what accounts for this preference, but one explanation may be that top-shelf disc players are able to harvest audio data from discs with very few read errors (and thus minimal intrusion from error detection and correction algorithms) and can likewise present that data in as jitter-free a manner as possible. If that’s the case, then high-quality disc players may still enjoy a worthwhile performance edge vis-à-vis typical streaming solutions, meaning our prized disc collections might in turn have a new lease on life

[fas42]

They've been getting "excellent measurements" from digital for decades - but that hasn't helped sway the opinions of those who want the subjective results to deliver. IME even 'low grade' digital gear can deliver - the local audio friend just uses relatively ordinary media players, that you can lose in your back pocket, to produce sound quite superior to  that which most high end rigs deliver - it's knowledge which is key; not OTT, blingy 'engineering'.

[diecaster]

2 hours ago, ajay556 said:

ok you are just not getting the concept. You are thinking PS Audio bit perfect has anything to do with this conversation...thats like saying my  300 watt amp performance perfectly at 300 watts ...  And fyi..i had PS audio direct stream too..i sold it for a CD player that killed the PS audio in music performance....PS audio makes great digital players but its not in par with truly high end digital playback - there goes your bit perfect logic....so please sign off from this thread

 

I couldn't care less what you think of my DAC. Based on what you've posted, you have no idea what you are talking about anyway.

 

My point is that I know the digital chain I am using gets music files to the digital side of my DAC bit perfect. The DirectStream DAC completely ignores the clocking from the data stream and figures out the frequency to use based on the data itself. In other words, the raw data is read in and clocked using the DirectStream's internal clocks only. The quality, or lack thereof, of the external clocks matter not. Again, the music data gets to the DAC bit perfect, no matter what you think you know or say.

[Miska]

1 hour ago, ajay556 said:

here is a review of the PS audio player from top magazine ..it says discs are better and i agree 100%. The  PS audio is not even using a dedicated cd transport but a oppo dvd player transport

 

That's not objective data...

[Miska]

1 hour ago, fas42 said:

They've been getting "excellent measurements" from digital for decades - but that hasn't helped sway the opinions of those who want the subjective results to deliver. IME even 'low grade' digital gear can deliver - the local audio friend just uses relatively ordinary media players, that you can lose in your back pocket, to produce sound quite superior to  that which most high end rigs deliver - it's knowledge which is key; not OTT, blingy 'engineering'.

 

Yeah, as I said both excellent measurements and good sound.

 

"Good" sound or high price is not excuse for bad measurement results. Or bad sound for that matter either... Quite the contrary.

 

I'm not suggesting that best measuring device would automatically also sound best. But let's say there's assumption that fancy clocking thing would reduce jitter. Or that using MacBook as source would increase jitter or noise. These are things that can be verified by measuring. To see if the assumption is true or not.

 

[marce]

3 hours ago, ajay556 said:

here is a review of the PS audio player from top magazine ..it says discs are better and i agree 100%. The  PS audio is not even using a dedicated cd transport but a oppo dvd player transport

 

In an era of streaming network-attached digital music sources you might think the time for listening to music as played from spinning silver discs is past, but that isn’t necessarily the case. In fact, if you have read between the lines of commentary from many of our reviewers you might have noticed a quiet trend; namely, a softly spoken preference for the sound quality of music played from discs as compared to the sound of the same music played from network-connected players or servers. It’s hard to say what accounts for this preference, but one explanation may be that top-shelf disc players are able to harvest audio data from discs with very few read errors (and thus minimal intrusion from error detection and correction algorithms) and can likewise present that data in as jitter-free a manner as possible. If that’s the case, then high-quality disc players may still enjoy a worthwhile performance edge vis-à-vis typical streaming solutions, meaning our prized disc collections might in turn have a new lease on life

Its the audiophile Luddite syndrome:

CD's are better than streaming.

LP,s are better than CD's...

 

 

 

[ajay556]

11 hours ago, diecaster said:

 

I couldn't care less what you think of my DAC. Based on what you've posted, you have no idea what you are talking about anyway.

 

My point is that I know the digital chain I am using gets music files to the digital side of my DAC bit perfect. The DirectStream DAC completely ignores the clocking from the data stream and figures out the frequency to use based on the data itself. In other words, the raw data is read in and clocked using the DirectStream's internal clocks only. The quality, or lack thereof, of the external clocks matter not. Again, the music data gets to the DAC bit perfect, no matter what you think you know or say.

you really need to study digital processing before you can make any claims. Music reproduction is not that simple. If your external clock has no dependency on your DAC then please try another transport like innuos statement or even a ayon CD transport and you will hear a huge improvement  in sound quality.  You are sounding like a parrot repeating the same phrase. I dont want to be rude but you leave me with no choice. PS auidio is definitely doing a good job in marketing for you .🙂

 

This is my last statement as i cannot waste my time educating consumers who have no idea in engineering concepts.

[diecaster]

4 minutes ago, ajay556 said:

This is my last statement as i cannot waste my time educating consumers who have no idea in engineering concepts.

 

Oh, thank God!

[audiobomber]

My turntable does sound better to me, and to my friends, than my CD player and streamer, given similar recording quality and condition. Some records are not as good as the CD remasters and vice versa, and LP's are more likely to be damaged.

 

Due to the inconvenience of vinyl replay and gradual LP deterioration, I ripped all my vinyl and my TT is for sale. The difference in sound quality is not enough to overcome the downsides of vinyl. Some records sound better via streaming than TT, because I used a pop and click filter for damaged vinyl.

 

My Audiolab 8200CD has an integral CD tray (I believe it's CD-ROM) and asynchronous USB. I cannot tell from the SQ whether a CD or the streamer is playing, even with intent listening and instantaneous switching.

 

I needed a couple of tweaks to get the streamer to the same level as the CD. I don't believe there's any point in further upgrades to the streaming system. I don't see how or why streaming could sound better than the integrated CD tray, because the DAC chips, power supply and clock are the same, whether streaming or playing a CD.

 

I rarely play a CD any more. I don't like having to put them away after I play them, but also, I love the playback features of streaming; Random 100 selection, playlists, genre, artist, folder, etc., and 12,000 of my songs at my fingertips.

 

I feel like I'm getting much better value from my music collection now that I stream. Previously a CD or LP with three good songs out of eight would rarely be played. Now all my recordings get played. Songs I don't like have been deleted, so I never have to hear them again.

[Ralf11]

40 minutes ago, ajay556 said:

you really need to study digital processing before you can make any claims.

 

 

this part is true

 

 

[diecaster]

23 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

 

 

this part is true

 

 

 

No, it's not. you or I can make claims all day long without studying digital processing. Regardless of who makes claims, the validity of the claims is the evidence that supports or disputes them. Who makes the claims has zero impact of the validity of those claims.

 

This guy is using the "appeal to authority" logical fallacy to support what he says.