Lies about vinyl vs digital

[The_K-Man]

1 hour ago, SJK said:

Dude.  Don’t be harsh.  We’re all friends here.

 

It's not harsh, it's science!   Wait - this is an audiophile forum - science is optional!

[AudioDoctor]

How dare someone have an opinion that differs from my own!!!

 

ill beat them with a science textbook!

[Teresa]

On 1/12/2020 at 2:56 PM, fas42 said:

I think we should stop beating around the bush - every album, that's ever been released, contains a bit of that dreaded feralA, lurking in a deep, dark place, ready to pounce out and savage your ears ... 🤬

 

You have this incorrect or perhaps you didn't mean what you typed. 

 

Only analog master tapes that were encoded with Dolby A noise reduction and NOT decoded when released on CD, LP or music file can be FeralA.

 

Analog master tapes that didn’t use Dolby A noise reduction and weren't mistakingly Dolby A decoded cannot be FeralA.

 

Digital recordings cannot possible be effected by FeralA as Dolby was only designed for analog recordings to reduce analog tape hiss by 10 - 15dB. However,  a very small amount or early CDs used pre-emphasis but that is a different problem.

 

Every album that has ever been released cannot be infested with FeralA as Frank claims. There is no bush to beat around. FeralA only effects albums that are Dolby A encoded and then not Dolby A decoded. Dolby A is an encode / decode noise reduction system. It is wrong to encode with Dolby A and then not decode when pressing a CD, LP, or releasing as a music file. 

[Rexp]

5 hours ago, kumakuma said:

 

Perhaps you aren't their target customer.

 

I, on the other hand, have at least a dozen different versions of Kind of Blue.

Now, if you'd just kept your turntable.. 

[Rexp]

2 hours ago, The_K-Man said:

 

It's not harsh, it's science!   Wait - this is an audiophile forum - science is optional!

Not optional, scientists haven't discovered why most digital sounds bad

[The_K-Man]

3 minutes ago, Rexp said:

Not optional, scientists haven't discovered why most digital sounds bad

 

Perhaps they should start looking in the mixing and mastering suites.

[Rexp]

5 minutes ago, The_K-Man said:

 

Perhaps they should start looking in the mixing and mastering suites.

Yes, plenty of bad mastering around, also plenty of bad playback hardware. I predict things will improve with the help of our techy/scientist friends. 

[kumakuma]

52 minutes ago, Rexp said:

Now, if you'd just kept your turntable.. 

 

No need. I've found a number of needle drops in the deep, dark recesses of the Interweb.  

[AudioDoctor]

I’m going to listen to vinyl in honor of K-man...

[sandyk]

2 minutes ago, kumakuma said:

 

No need. I've found a number of needle drops in the deep, dark recesses of the Interweb.  

 

The majority of them are nowhere near as good as their posters believed.

[Ralf11]

1 hour ago, Rexp said:

scientists haven't discovered why most digital sounds bad

 

 

who told you that?

[sandyk]

1 hour ago, Ralf11 said:

 

 

who told you that?

 

So you agree with Rexp that most digital sounds bad ?

[semente]

9 hours ago, fas42 said:

 

I am very demanding ... which is why I dismiss, immediately, nearly all high end rigs I come across - they are getting so much wrong, and making  a mess of a recording I know well - to me, at that moment, they are no better than an AM radio - a very old VW, in Porsche clothing ...

 

 

The "problem" is that the mastering is of a type that makes added distortion from the playback chain very, very obvious ... you see, I use those styles of recordings that John is processing, in their original form, to assess my progress in optimising  - they "make it difficult" for the system, and tell me how 'robust' the playback integrity really is.

 

Otherwise, it's like having a Mercedes which you can't drive over certain, everyday roads - they have "nasty bumps", and the suspension bangs and crashes trying to navigate them - the engineering is not up to scratch.

 

 

Why are there all these remastered Yes albums? Because people didn't like how the original one, with "the guts, the verve, the sparkle, the depth of captured music" sounded on their setups - so, there was a market for the "baby food" versions. "Inadequate" is a subjective decision, not an objective one.

 

We are discussing formats here and sound quality. A badly mastered album may help you trace down "problems" in your setup but that all its good for.

 

As for why all these remastered albums? Profit.

It has nothing with people not liking the original; audiophiles are a minuscule, rarefying minority and as such they're an insignificant fringe of the overall market. Normal people won't have 3 releases of Time Out, 5 of Kind of Blue and 12 of DSOTM...

[semente]

10 hours ago, fas42 said:

 

I am very demanding ... which is why I dismiss, immediately, nearly all high end rigs I come across - they are getting so much wrong, and making  a mess of a recording I know well - to me, at that moment, they are no better than an AM radio - a very old VW, in Porsche clothing ...

 

 

The "problem" is that the mastering is of a type that makes added distortion from the playback chain very, very obvious ... you see, I use those styles of recordings that John is processing, in their original form, to assess my progress in optimising  - they "make it difficult" for the system, and tell me how 'robust' the playback integrity really is.

 

Otherwise, it's like having a Mercedes which you can't drive over certain, everyday roads - they have "nasty bumps", and the suspension bangs and crashes trying to navigate them - the engineering is not up to scratch.

 

 

Why are there all these remastered Yes albums? Because people didn't like how the original one, with "the guts, the verve, the sparkle, the depth of captured music" sounded on their setups - so, there was a market for the "baby food" versions. "Inadequate" is a subjective decision, not an objective one.

 

The problem is not just remasters, many rock and pop and other genre newly produced albums are being released with poor mastering.

This is Radiohead's "Nude":

 

[sandyk]

35 minutes ago, semente said:

 

The problem is not just remasters, many rock and pop and other genre newly produced albums are being released with poor mastering.

This is Radiohead's "Nude":

 

I wouldn't call this great remastering, would you ?

Neil Diamond-Sweet Caroline MQA

[fas42]

6 hours ago, Teresa said:

 

You have this incorrect or perhaps you didn't mean what you typed. 

 

 

Sorry, this comment was intentionally heavy with irony - I was reacting to John constantly invoking the feralA demon, when talking of recordings he came across ... 🙃.

[fas42]

5 hours ago, Rexp said:

Not optional, scientists haven't discovered why most digital sounds bad

 

Don't need scientists ... just need better electronics designers ...

[fas42]

1 hour ago, semente said:

 

We are discussing formats here and sound quality. A badly mastered album may help you trace down "problems" in your setup but that all its good for.

 

It works better than that ...much, much better, in fact. One is able to "hear through" the deficiencies, and connect with the music making ... after all, I thought that was the point of the exercise - I still hear the echo of "Just enjoy the music!", being repeated over and over again ...

[fas42]

1 hour ago, semente said:

 

The problem is not just remasters, many rock and pop and other genre newly produced albums are being released with poor mastering.

This is Radiohead's "Nude":

 

 

Yes, out of control compression is a problem, currently - down the track clever software, like John's, will undo this messing up; what he's doing is showing that the right algorithms can extract the musical content, and reorganise it with minimal 'damage'.

[The_K-Man]

5 hours ago, AudioDoctor said:

I’m going to listen to vinyl in honor of K-man...

 

Ign- distortion - is bliss!  

[AudioDoctor]

Enjoying music how I want to and not caring how others enjoy their music, is bliss. 

[marce]

11 hours ago, Rexp said:

Not optional, scientists haven't discovered why most digital sounds bad

Compared to what exactly?

[Ralf11]

compared to confirmation bias

[StephenJK]

10 hours ago, sandyk said:

I wouldn't call this great remastering, would you ?

Neil Diamond-Sweet Caroline MQA

But doesn't that make the argument for the LP in this case.  I have the first release CD and the Special Edition CD, both have the same clipping.  The file below is what I recorded from the LP.

 

Edit - The Radiohead Nude track, not the Neil Diamond.

[semente]

1 hour ago, SJK said:

But doesn't that make the argument for the LP in this case.  I have the first release CD and the Special Edition CD, both have the same clipping.  The file below is what I recorded from the LP.

 

Edit - The Radiohead Nude track, not the Neil Diamond.

 

If you can afford to own two source systems and aren't disturbed by vinyl's distortion footprint then it makes a lot of sense to get the best release.

 

I listen mostly to classical music and that sounds a lot better in digital so it doesn't really bother me much.