Lies about vinyl vs digital

[esldude]

2 hours ago, The_K-Man said:

 

Try convincing the popular music industry of that.

 

Ever wonder why albums like Fleetwood Mac's 'RUMOURS' are in high rotation in my playlists?

I wish I could convince them, but they are lost cause.  The problem is infecting older recordings with it, and infecting genre's of music where such loudness is wholly inappropriate. 

 

The irony of inventing the quietest widest dynamic range recording and playback tech ever available, and the end result is squashed music that wouldn't strain the dynamics of an Edison cylinder.

[The_K-Man]

13 hours ago, SJK said:

You’re setting yourself up with that one. 
 

Fleetwood Mac were a great AM radio top 40 band. They were good musicians who managed to find that formula for success that relied on that steady back beat fronted by a sultry California blond and one of the greatest and inventive lead guitarists of our times.

 

But it’s pop music that will never stand the test of time.  
 

The litmus test is this - whether they play their music in the supermarket. 
 

Rumours?  Absolutely, 24/7. 
 

 

"setting myself up" - how so?

 

The songs on 'RUMOURS' were also - mostly - pop/top-forty, in their day.  They went up and down the charts just like Bieber, One Direction, Drake, and Cardi-B are doing nowadays.

 

My point is, the songs from that 1977 album sounded better. As did a lot of pop from the '70s and '80s.

[The_K-Man]

11 hours ago, esldude said:

The problem is infecting older recordings with it, and

infecting genre's of music where such loudness is wholly

inappropriate. 

 

Exactly the point  my profile avatar screams out! 

[StephenJK]

6 hours ago, The_K-Man said:

"setting myself up" - how so?

 

The songs on 'RUMOURS' were also - mostly - pop/top-forty, in their day.  They went up and down the charts just like Bieber, One Direction, Drake, and Cardi-B are doing nowadays.

 

My point is, the songs from that 1977 album sounded better. As did a lot of pop from the '70s and '80s.

Dude,

 

Wasn’t trying to upset you. You asked a question, something about do we wonder why Rumours is on your playlist.

 

You didn’t answer, so I thought you might be looking to us for a response. Maybe you should tell us why Rumours will always be on your playlist.

 

Edit:  Tusk sounds great, but the copy of Rumours I have, your 70’s music for the masses copy doesn’t seem to be anything special. 
 

Stephen

[fas42]

A Rumours CD was a very early purchase for me, when I started on the digital path. It always works well, even when the rig is well below par - and gets better and better, the more the system is optimised - my wife who didn't know anything of the group was an instant convert; every track's a winner. Tremendous energy, drive, creativity, hooks galore - a "perfect" album ...

[The_K-Man]

3 hours ago, SJK said:

Dude,

 

Wasn’t trying to upset you. You asked a question, something about do we wonder why Rumours is on your playlist.

 

You didn’t answer, so I thought you might be looking to us for a response. Maybe you should tell us why Rumours will always be on your playlist.

 

Edit:  Tusk sounds great, but the copy of Rumours I have, your 70’s music for the masses copy doesn’t seem to be anything special. 
 

Stephen

 

Very simple: The instruments in the songs on Rumours SOUND like INSTRUMENTS. And the songs tell stories.

 

Now answer my question: How was I "setting myself up" by stating that material of Rumours' caliber and era were in my playlist?

[fas42]

Talking about albums where every track's a winner, recently got hold of

 

 

If your rig is up to handling this well, fabulous stuff! Of course, it has the iconic

 

 

As a song with energy to burn, I don't think that they come much better than this ... an all time. "favourite " ...

[mansr]

1 hour ago, The_K-Man said:

Very simple: The instruments in the songs on Rumours SOUND like INSTRUMENTS. And the songs tell stories.

 

Now answer my question: How was I "setting myself up" by stating that material of Rumours' caliber and era were in my playlist?

SJK apparently thinks he can prove his sophistication by slagging off that album. I didn't realise that was a thing. My advice is to ignore him and keep enjoying Rumours. I quite like it myself.

[fas42]

Which of course leads onto the original,

 

 

This is a massive blast of everything good in gut wrenching, hard driving rock - this is powerhouse music making, at its best ... I can't think of anything obvious that can top this - other than another Robert Palmer track, 😉.

[The_K-Man]

4 minutes ago, fas42 said:

other than another Robert Palmer track, 😉.

 

 

!...

 

One of my faves by the Master of Ceremonies himself!  That drum solo opener, like bullets outa my speaks!  Crank up to ten, if you dare ...

[fas42]

3 minutes ago, The_K-Man said:

 

 

!...

 

One of my faves by the Master of Ceremonies himself!  That drum solo opener, like bullets outa my speaks!  Crank up to ten, if you dare ...

 

No trouble hearing what you're talking about, even though I have no awareness of the track.

 

Probably the best for pure juggernaut driving energy, for me, is 

 

 

Your system should feel it needs to go outside and take a breather, after pounding your room into submission from this one, 🙂

 

[The_K-Man]

3 minutes ago, fas42 said:

...even though I have no awareness of the track.

 

I get that a lot with regards to the songs I listen to.  🤦‍♂️

[lucretius]

On 1/16/2020 at 5:19 AM, k-man said:

@AudioDoctor , FAO @The_K-Man

 

On 1/16/2020 at 5:55 AM, The_K-Man said:

"FAO"?

 

On 1/16/2020 at 7:00 AM, k-man said:

For the attention of..

 

 @k-man / @The_K-Man , are you talking to yourself?  ☺️

[AudioDoctor]

I have nothing against Rumors, however I think the best of Fleetwood Mac came long before that. 
 

 

[fas42]

Yes, a whole different listening experience ... great album!

 

 

 

[lucretius]

6 hours ago, AudioDoctor said:

I have nothing against Rumors, however I think the best of Fleetwood Mac came long before that. 
 

 

 

What, no Stevie Nicks .... Nooooo.

[The_K-Man]

Is something wrong with user Sandyk's browser?  They keep 'banning' everyone's comments!

[tmtomh]

21 hours ago, SJK said:

Dude,

 

Wasn’t trying to upset you. You asked a question, something about do we wonder why Rumours is on your playlist.

 

You didn’t answer, so I thought you might be looking to us for a response. Maybe you should tell us why Rumours will always be on your playlist.

 

Edit:  Tusk sounds great, but the copy of Rumours I have, your 70’s music for the masses copy doesn’t seem to be anything special. 
 

Stephen

 

I don't quite believe that you didn't know that the @The_K-Man was posing a rhetorical question rather than an actual question - and if if it were an actual question, I don't quite believe that you didn't know the answer. The production and mastering on Rumours are dynamic and not peak-limited.

 

As for the sonics of Rumours, I actually think they're a bit overrated compared to what a lot of folks say about the subject, but it is nevertheless a very nice-sounding album. For vinyl folks the white-vinyl Dutch LP has a very good reputation. For digital folks (and I am one of those), there's a bit of a cult around the original Japan "target CD" mastering, which is very warm and "analogue" sounding but IMHO overrated. And there's the early 2000s DVD-A and SACD mastering, which is really excellent. 

[Ralf11]

17 hours ago, fas42 said:

Which of course leads onto the original,

 

 

This is a massive blast of everything good in gut wrenching, hard driving rock - this is powerhouse music making, at its best ... I can't think of anything obvious that can top this - other than another Robert Palmer track, 😉.

 

I feel like I'm missing something when I play it on my tiny laptop speakers

[kumakuma]

Just now, Ralf11 said:

 

I feel like I'm missing something when I play it on my tiny laptop speakers

 

Isn't your mind filing in the missing information?

[Ralf11]

that would jam up my neural circuitry, besides smoking my eyelids and punching my cigarette

[StephenJK]

2 hours ago, tmtomh said:

 

I don't quite believe that you didn't know that the @The_K-Man was posing a rhetorical question rather than an actual question - and if if it were an actual question, I don't quite believe that you didn't know the answer. The production and mastering on Rumours are dynamic and not peak-limited.

 

As for the sonics of Rumours, I actually think they're a bit overrated compared to what a lot of folks say about the subject, but it is nevertheless a very nice-sounding album. For vinyl folks the white-vinyl Dutch LP has a very good reputation. For digital folks (and I am one of those), there's a bit of a cult around the original Japan "target CD" mastering, which is very warm and "analogue" sounding but IMHO overrated. And there's the early 2000s DVD-A and SACD mastering, which is really excellent. 

No, I didn't know - it seemed anything but rhetorical, it was definitely interrogative. 

 

And Rumours?  I don't know anything about it other than it's a pop music record that everyone used to own and that they play it a lot in supermarkets.  

 

I'm still not sure what his answer would be as to why Rumours will always be on his playlist.  I know your opinion, but I'm guessing you're not answering for K-Man.  I'm happy for it to forever remain a mystery.

[John Dyson]

3 hours ago, tmtomh said:

 

I don't quite believe that you didn't know that the @The_K-Man was posing a rhetorical question rather than an actual question - and if if it were an actual question, I don't quite believe that you didn't know the answer. The production and mastering on Rumours are dynamic and not peak-limited.

 

As for the sonics of Rumours, I actually think they're a bit overrated compared to what a lot of folks say about the subject, but it is nevertheless a very nice-sounding album. For vinyl folks the white-vinyl Dutch LP has a very good reputation. For digital folks (and I am one of those), there's a bit of a cult around the original Japan "target CD" mastering, which is very warm and "analogue" sounding but IMHO overrated. And there's the early 2000s DVD-A and SACD mastering, which is really excellent. 

A friend just sent me a copy of Rumors in feralA form.  I have played with it for a day or so off and on...   Sure needed decoding...  The material opened up like a flower relative to the mangled ambiance on the source copy. here are some results, and note that I am very busy working on other material.  With a little more work, should be pretty good -- already not bad IMO.  (It does need a little more consideration on the midrange, and also the filter interleave might help a little bit more on the cut 8, where the vocal edginess might be better smoothed out.  There are ZERO heroic measures in these results.

These are snippets -- there IS a little lost in mp3 though.

EDIT:  I can do a LOT more to make the stereo image much more dynamic, but had some decoding issues.  Not sure if it was correct.  These are CONSERVATIVE, and a little more tame.  I'll see what I can do tonight.

EDIT2:  Darn'it...  Things seem to work badly at times.  I just vastly improved the decode.  These are indicative of the general quality, but upcoming decodes are much nicer.

 

John

 

 

 

Fleetwood Mac - Rumours - 03. Never Going Back Again-snippet-dhnrds.mp3 Fleetwood Mac - Rumours - 04. Don't Stop-snippet-dhnrds.mp3 Fleetwood Mac - Rumours - 08. You Make Loving Fun-snippet-dhnrds.mp3

[fas42]

 

2 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

 

I feel like I'm missing something when I play it on my tiny laptop speakers

 

What "tiny laptop speakers", or an unsorted high end high end rig can't convey is the piledriver impact of these sort of tracks - you know how the typical action movie does layer upon layer of visual "BIG STUFF!", with a pounding soundtrack to convey a relentless quality to what you're seeing? ... That's exactly what you get from correct replay of this sort of music, a roller coaster ride of intensity for the ears - which has nothing to do with great dobs of added replay distortion, and everything to do with the 'power' of the sound making you feel like a cork bobbing up and down on huge waves. "Bullets" were mentioned before - this is like being in a continual earthquake ...

[sandyk]

Lies about vinyl vs digital

 Getting back to the original topic, has anybody been able to compare the Fleetwood Mac Rumours  Vinyl vs. the original CD release ?

 This thread is NOT about how great (NOT !) Robert Palmer YouTube videos, OR Shania Twain with low bit rate .aac audio sound through Franks  tiny Laptop speakers.

 I have attached a Sound Forge 9 screen shot showing how the 24/96 DVD-A audio from the track Dreams is being limited on peaks, and not being heard to it's full potential.